BvS Ben Affleck IS Batman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 38

[matt47]

Anyone else really love "Business Man Bruce Wayne" in this film? That small snippet of him in that board room with his assistant and at the start with Wally...Ugh so Perfect! Reminded me of TAS. Especially how he has been sending Wally checks every month.

 

[Spideyfan117]

I liked this Batman quite a bit. He felt like comic book Batman. My only qualm is with him killing.

 

[Corko]

Saw it for the first time yesterday. Loved it. The fighting in the warehouse was perfect. No one I was with was bothered about the killing

 

[Iceman]

Anyone else really love "Business Man Bruce Wayne" in this film? That small snippet of him in that board room with his assistant and at the start with Wally...Ugh so Perfect! Reminded me of TAS. Especially how he has been sending Wally checks every month.

Yep. Was expecting this kind of Bruce Wayne from Affleck. Top businessman and Top Playboy lol.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

I know the fighting scene with Batfleck are excellent, but I have to compliment him for his acting at the end of the fight with Supes. [BLACKOUT]Why did you say that name ? Martha. Why did you say that name?![/BLACKOUT]
Reading it like that doesn't have the same effect, but seeing that scene with your eyes... tears, dude...tears. So emotional.

 

[Karelia]

I know the fighting scene with Batfleck are excellent, but I have to compliment him for his acting at the end of the fight with Supes. [BLACKOUT]Why did you say that name ? Martha. Why did you say that name?![/BLACKOUT]
Reading it like that doesn't have the same effect, but seeing that scene with your eyes... tears, dude...tears. So emotional.

Probably the most emotional scene in the film. The opening of Bruce parents death, and Superman's sacrifice were emotional as well. At least for me. Especially when Superman is just laying there and they pick him up and carry him off. Really sets I that he's dead.

 

[titansupes]

Probably the most emotional scene in the film. The opening of Bruce parents death, and Superman's sacrifice were emotional as well. At least for me. Especially when Superman is just laying there and they pick him up and carry him off. Really sets I that he's dead.

That was so surreal. To watch Batman gently put Superman's hands across his chest, and lower his body down to Wonder Woman... I'm glad they showed that and staged it that way.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I loved that. Puttint Superman's hands on his chest. I've always been of the belief that Bruce from the comics still holds on to some form of religious beliefs and I think Snyder realised that, too.

https://www.quora.com/What-religion-is-“Bruce-Wayne”-“Batman”

 

[hafizbat]

Anyone else really love "Business Man Bruce Wayne" in this film? That small snippet of him in that board room with his assistant and at the start with Wally...Ugh so Perfect! Reminded me of TAS. Especially how he has been sending Wally checks every month.

Liked that bit

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Probably the most emotional scene in the film. The opening of Bruce parents death, and Superman's sacrifice were emotional as well. At least for me. Especially when Superman is just laying there and they pick him up and carry him off. Really sets I that he's dead.

That was so surreal. To watch Batman gently put Superman's hands across his chest, and lower his body down to Wonder Woman... I'm glad they showed that and staged it that way.

I loved that. Puttint Superman's hands on his chest. I've always been of the belief that Bruce from the comics still holds on to some form of religious beliefs and I think Snyder realised that, too.

https://www.quora.com/What-religion-is-“Bruce-Wayne”-“Batman”

I'm not sure, but did he wrap the cape around Supes to lower him down to Diana and Lois ?

 

[titansupes]

I'm not sure, but did he wrap the cape around Supes to lower him down to Diana and Lois ?

He did indeed. He used it as a sort of makeshift harness. Really well done.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I liked this Batman quite a bit. He felt like comic book Batman. My only qualm is with him killing.

Pretty much this, but I don't consider it killing if Batman doesn't fire the bullet that hits the guy or doesn't stab the guy in the heart himself

 

[spider-neil]

People are condemning the film's portrayal of Batman for his "controversial methods" when it comes to fighting criminals, saying it's a betrayal of the character and it's not true to who Batman is.

I agree. It isn't true to who Batman is...or, rather, to who he was.

Who he was twenty years prior. When his intentions were noble and his outlook was optimistic.

But that's the point the movie is making.

It's an intentional departure necessary to facilitate the story that's being told.

Like "Mask of the Phantasm." The only way that story can be told is with the creation of Andrea Beaumont and the inclusion into the origin of the concept of Bruce contemplating walking away from his obligations for love. This doesn't happen in the comics but, for the sake of that story, it happens there.

In "Dawn of Justice," the narrative conceit is that decades of conflict and tragedy have led him astray from his moral path. A side effect of his war on crime which is exacerbated by Superman's presence.

"The feeling of powerlessness that turns good men cruel."

Bruce is a good man gone cruel. He's bitter. He's disenfranchised. He's brutal. He brands criminals.

His penance for staring too long into the abyss is to become consumed by it. Blinded by it. So much so that he doesn't see the hope Superman represents until a critical juncture. And then recognizes it. And he witnesses first hand the example Superman sets.

And in doing so, I think, he's inspired to come back from the brink he was standing on from the outset of the film...to become a semblance of the hero he once was when he first donned cape and cowl.

This culminates in a realization that men can still be good...that HE can still be good. And a moment where he has an opportunity to brand Lex...and chooses not to.

Is Batman taking life a departure from the source material? Yes. And that's the point.

Both he and Wonder Woman are disillusioned, abandoning the crusades they once took part in. But through meeting with and fighting alongside Superman, they answer a call of redemption, returning to their true selves...Batman with his morals and Wonder Woman with her choosing to resume her mantle after initially abandoning the world of man.

I believe that's what's referred to as a character arc.

That's a very good post but the movie should have dropped a line from Alfred, maybe along the lines of, 'I know that you have suffered terrible tragedy your entire life but now you are becoming the type criminal you hated when you first started out'. Something to emphasis Batman is no longer the Batman he set out to be when he first become Batman.

They should have played up the Robin suit more as a catalyse for this darker version of Batman.

Also, there is this elaborate plan to get Superman to fight Batman. Batman was branding people at best and killing them at worst (even though you don't actually see any confirmed deaths) that is reason enough for Superman to want to take him down.

 

[The_Manhunter]

That's a very good post but the movie should have dropped a line from Alfred, maybe along the lines of, 'I know that you have suffered terrible tragedy your entire life but now you are becoming the type criminal you hated when you first started out'. Something to emphasis Batman is no longer the Batman he set out to be when he first become Batman.

They should have played up the Robin suit more as a catalyse for this darker version of Batman.

Also, there is this elaborate plan to get Superman to fight Batman. Batman was branding people at best and killing them at worst (even though you don't actually see any confirmed deaths) that is reason enough for Superman to want to take him down.

That's why I wasn't bothered with this whole thing and think it's way overblown. It was the same way in the Nolan trilogy.

 

[DeadPresident]

That's a very good post but the movie should have dropped a line from Alfred, maybe along the lines of, 'I know that you have suffered terrible tragedy your entire life but now you are becoming the type criminal you hated when you first started out'. Something to emphasis Batman is no longer the Batman he set out to be when he first become Batman.

They should have played up the Robin suit more as a catalyse for this darker version of Batman.

Also, there is this elaborate plan to get Superman to fight Batman. Batman was branding people at best and killing them at worst (even though you don't actually see any confirmed deaths) that is reason enough for Superman to want to take him down.

That's really alluded to frequently throughout the movie though, you don't need a character to explicitly tell the audience. They show the Robin suit, Bruce has his line about them being criminals all this time, about good guys not staying good, it's all there. Alfred's line about good men turning cruel, it has multiple applications, the bread crumbs were all over the place really.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

There's a rule in writing - Show, don't tell. And they followed it very well. The opening, the Robin suit, it's all in there.

 

[Rocketman]

We're definitely getting solo Batman films, for sure. Affleck's going to be around for a long time, I think. He was the best part of BvS, and in many people's opinion (including my own), he's the best Batman ever put on film.

Not one person I know has disliked Affleck. Universal praise across the board.
I mean, it's like the overwhelming #1 thing everyone agrees on.

The kneejerk reaction that WB would scrap this whole universe and abandon ship was ludicrous. They've got a whole new Batman franchise now. They're going to milk it.

 

[spider-neil]

Affleck has been pretty much universally praised even from reviewers that have trashed the movie. I am very much looking forward to seeing his version of Batman and his, frankly better directing ability.

 

[matt47]

I'd love for a Batfleck solo movie now. But I hope it doesn't have to set up anything. I just want a movie with this Batman, and Ben directing.

 

[TDKR1977]

That's really alluded to frequently throughout the movie though, you don't need a character to explicitly tell the audience. They show the Robin suit, Bruce has his line about them being criminals all this time, about good guys not staying good, it's all there. Alfred's line about good men turning cruel, it has multiple applications, the bread crumbs were all over the place really.

Exactly. It's a no win. If Snyder has the characters explicitly say it, then it's, "stop spoonfeeding me!" On the other hand, if it's subtle then folks complain, "there was no explanation" for a, b, or c.

Ridiculous.

 

[Saint]

OK. But he doesn't murder anyone in this movie, either. Justifiable homicide? Certainly. No murder, however.

When we see Lexcorp after Batman has stolen the kryptonite, we see an EMT trying to resuscitate a security guard.

That means Batman has used lethal force while committing a break and enter, against a guy just doing his job, who had every right to use force to stop Batman. If that guy does in fact die, and Batman were to be charged with that crime, he would be charged with murder. If the guy survives, he'd be charged with attempted murder. It's no different from a guy breaking into your house and killing you when you try to defend yourself and your property.

Additionally, in the warehouse fight scene, Batman throws an already subdued enemy into the guy holding the grenade.

The thing about self-defense is that just because somebody shoots at you first, or has shot at you at some point or in some context, it does not give you a license to do anything and everything you please in response (the details, of course, depend on the laws in your area). In court, in order to defeat a murder charge in the grenade incident, for example, Batman would have to convince a jury that the guy he threw at the grenade (the subdued, disarmed, upside down guy) was, at that moment, a threat to Batman's life. Batman would have to testify that the guy hanging upside down made Batman fear for his life.

Then there's Batman's entire pre-meditated plot to murder Superman. So, even if Batman were to defeat all murder charges in those incidents, even if you personally believe that those incidents were all acceptable (which is your prerogative), Batman, as presented in this film, is okay with murder, because he spends the entire film plotting one.

 

[DeadPresident]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Batman doesn't give a **** about legal technicalities while he's trying to save a super powered alien's mother to prevent said alien from turning into a murderous tyrant that enslaves the entire planet.

If we really want to split hairs he saved all of humanity by preventing that atrocity

 

[Travesty]

Batman has killed in most live action movies. This isn't something new.

 

[Saint]

I believe that's what's referred to as a character arc.

It's absolutely a character arc, but that doesn't mean it's above criticism. It's a character arc that sees Batman become the kind of man Batman stops, the kind of man Jean Paul Valley was. If someone's not okay with that, can you blame them?

 

[Saint]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Batman doesn't give a **** about legal technicalities while he's trying to save a super powered alien's mother to prevent said alien from turning into a murderous tyrant that enslaves the entire planet.:

I was responding to a specific claim that Batman does not commit murders in this film. Whether or not you're okay with his actions is an entirely different issue.

That said, I know he doesn't care. That's exactly my problem.