BvS Ben Affleck IS Batman - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 39

[Jekecy]

You can't really say this Batman's broken when it's pretty clear him killing was always the status quo. The Robin spear leaks prove so, plus the fact he doesn't stop killing after he becomes buddies with Superman.

Except for the official prequel comic where it blatantly states he doesn't...

 

[Corko]

Your favorite Batman moment ever is Batman stabbing someone?

I just liked the brutality of it. Its probably between that or anytime hes ever swan dived.

 

[Shikamaru]

Except for the official prequel comic where it blatantly states he doesn't...

Was Snyder involved in it? As far as BvS stands on its own,that's clearly the case (for reasons explained).

Also from the way Snyder talks about him killing, he clearly doesn't see any issue with it. He won't even admit to any of it being murder.

 

[auditor]

A medic performing CPR is cinematic shorthand for that guy not dying. If they wanted to show Batman's actions as truly lethal, you'd see covered bodies being wheeled out.

Granted, for all we know, that security guard is having CPR performed because one of his fellow guards accidentally shot him or something during the fracas...

In the scene where Batman has dropped all the security guards...the immoral brutality of it is kind of the point. That's he's gone way, way too far. That his obsessions have led to this kind of desperate violence. That's the whole point of his character arc in this film. This "descent into madness".

And that's just too much for a lot of people with regard to this character. You're not supposed to like it, but I think filmmakers thought people would look at it as an exploration of the concept of Batman, not just a bastardization of it.

Whoa. I don't even remember that part. He dropped security guards? Were these guys criminals?

I would have been ok with Batman being in this "descent into madness" if it was done right. I like the idea that at the start of the film this is a Batman who is tired of people feeling sympathy for "bad people." He's seen enough. He doesn't want to have sympathy for anybody and he doesn't want to trust anybody. He's depressed and more brutal than ever.
I would have liked this if Superman had been a catalyst to remind Batman that there is still good in people. By the end of the movie Batman should be back to being the noble Batman we all know and love. And it should have been because of Superman!

I still wouldn't have started out the movie with Batman being any kind of killer. He's just more brutal, and he's finally about to break his code by trying to kill Superman.

 

[auditor]

I do think Ben Afleck is a good choice for Batman though. However I hated his Batman voice, even more than Bale's. Way too over the top. Whatever they did to it, they probably just need to do like 80% less and it would probably sound good.

 

[shauner111]

I do think Ben Afleck is a good choice for Batman though. However I hated his Batman voice, even more than Bale's. Way too over the top. Whatever they did to it, they probably just need to do like 80% less and it would probably sound good.

Yeah the robot voice should have been used in the mecha suit only.

 

[Saint]

I didn't mind that though, since Jean Paul Valley is not Batman. And even Jean Paul had the excuse of having his mind brain washed by the Order of St. Dumas.

Pretty much. Denny O'neil has said the whole purpose of Jean Paul was to show what Batman shouldn't be--the same way that this film does--but with the advantage of not being left with an irredeemable Batman at the end of the story.

Going that route with Bruce Wayne is definitely a more impactful approach than doing it by proxy, but you risk taking it too far and breaking your character.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Yeah the robot voice should have been used in the mecha suit only.

That would be ideal.

When his voice got deeper in some of his Bruce Wayne scenes, I think that would have been a good Batman voice.

 

[auditor]

That would be ideal.

When his voice got deeper in some of his Bruce Wayne scenes, I think that would have been a good Batman voice.

I remember thinking the same exact thing

 

[hafizbat]

You know, I can give that one a pass, because you could argue that Batfleck fired the tracker onto the truck as a contingency measure in case it got away from him during the chase. It still sounds goofy, but you can justify it if you want.

What you can't justify is the big-chinned idiot then driving his Batmobile through the side of the very same truck he just attached the tracker to, in more or less exactly the same place.

Not only did he outright kill someone, he also could quite easily have destroyed the tracker - his only way of tracing the truck had it got away from him. Sheer bloody idiocy.

I almost laughed out loud at how nearly the whole truck was blown away except for that piece with the tracker

My God, the fans with their 15 year old sensibilities have finally come true in Zack Snyder. All their wishes of making Batman more hardcore and violent and dark and gritty are in this film. Those niche fanboys in the corners of the internet are fulfilled. Some of these fans feel like it makes themselves feel more validated and grown up, some don't of course, but I think if Batman outright murdered, oh, excuse me, committed man slaughter more, it still would be justified. Just like if Snyder made Superman let a little girl die or killed one that would be justified too. It never ends. That's the thing: There is no line drawn which is the problem. I just never thought Snyder would make Batman a murderer. There are no rules for Snyder's heroes, hence people not making distinctions for these characters values, so it leaves them free to give their own dark justifications.

This interpretation is on the opposite end of spectrum for Schumacher's Batman. His was too stupid, this is too dark and cartoonishly so, but this is worse because you can't even laugh at this.

On the same page. People can throw words like "broken" or "bitter" or whatever grimdark adjectives you can find, but to me this Batman was a total idiot. He's about as rational as a member of the Tea Party, and just as close-minded and chauvinist.

He's a lousy detective, womanizer, alcoholic, reckless, impulsive, unjust, and a complete buffoon given how damn easy it was to Lex to play him like a fiddle. That's no Batman. But it's okay because he fight gud and look kewl.

 

[Marvin]

Whoa. I don't even remember that part. He dropped security guards? Were these guys criminals?

He's done worse to cops and swat teams.
Stay out of his way.

 

[King23DC]

Did Batman shoot something on the thugs guns in the warehouse that malfunctioned them? Happened so fast I couldn't tell.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Either that or when he blows the fat guy up in Returns. Or the time when he sodomized all those kids... no wait, that was in Salo

Did you just call Rick Zumwalt "the fat guy"? I think the word you were looking for was "giant" or "bull"--as in Hurley!

Sickening...

It was one guy vs. a well-armed gang. Was he supposed to put them in a basket hold?

we didn't see him actually died so he could've gotten away...

He fell victim to the Batman red shirt equation. In the comics or on screen, the only villains who survive improbable situations are wearing clown makeup or are made of clay. Joe Schmo bad guys just exit the story.

 

[Kanye West]

Do you guys realize that literally no one outside of nerds on internet forums cares that batman killed. Throwing around your essays on how sinful snyder is that he changed your hero and that he's not like he is in muh comiks.

He's a character introduced in this movie. The past in the comics should have 0 effect on what he's "suppose" to do. Him killing doesn't break any rule that has been established in this world. It's not inconsistent. Should be judged as any other character.

 

[titansupes]

None of that makes a lick of sense.

 

[FunkMiller]

Do you guys realize that literally no one outside of nerds on internet forums cares that batman killed. Throwing around your essays on how sinful snyder is that he changed your hero and that he's not like he is in muh comiks.

He's a character introduced in this movie. The past in the comics should have 0 effect on what he's "suppose" to do. Him killing doesn't break any rule that has been established in this world. It's not inconsistent. Should be judged as any other character.

Batman being a murderer is symptomatic of the broader problems with this movie - nihilistic, morose, joyless, poor characterisation etc.

And the audience really does care - or does that colossal BO drop off after opening weekend convince you of nothing?

 

[Tony Gunk]

Do you guys realize that literally no one outside of nerds on internet forums cares that batman killed. Throwing around your essays on how sinful snyder is that he changed your hero and that he's not like he is in muh comiks.

He's a character introduced in this movie. The past in the comics should have 0 effect on what he's "suppose" to do. Him killing doesn't break any rule that has been established in this world. It's not inconsistent. Should be judged as any other character.

I think you'll find they do. its barely worth debating with people who rate Kanye West though

 

[matt47]

I do think Ben Afleck is a good choice for Batman though. However I hated his Batman voice, even more than Bale's. Way too over the top. Whatever they did to it, they probably just need to do like 80% less and it would probably sound good.

I like the idea but sometimes the voice didn't sound good. My main point for this is when he is talking to Alfred about the spear. It should be toned down a bit.

 

[matt47]

Do you guys realize that literally no one outside of nerds on internet forums cares that batman killed. Throwing around your essays on how sinful snyder is that he changed your hero and that he's not like he is in muh comiks.

He's a character introduced in this movie. The past in the comics should have 0 effect on what he's "suppose" to do. Him killing doesn't break any rule that has been established in this world. It's not inconsistent. Should be judged as any other character.

Even if that is true. I don't give a ****. It's my (our) opinion.

So by your ways, Batman could have been a poor man with two living parents who fights crime in New Zealand and it wouldn't have any effect?

 

[hellblazer103]

i'm a " nerd on an internet forum " and tbh i'm probably one of few who doesn't mind. i'm sure it's something that'll get explanation later ( especially in the solo batfilm since, ya know, affleck can actually write ) and besides, it seems he has a change of heart at the end when he doesn't brand lex.

people want batman to be this compassionate humanist or some such bs and then they turn around and want this sadistic , psychopathic, " dark " vigilante . if you gotta have it both ways, you gotta go all the way with one.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Do you guys realize that literally no one outside of nerds on internet forums cares . The past in the comics should have 0 effect on what he's "suppose" to do. Him killing doesn't break any rule that has been established in this world. It's not inconsistent. Should be judged as any other character.

Even though I like BvS, I have to disagree with you wholeheartedly here. If the source material doesn't matter then why are they taking the time to adapt it? If I go to see an adaptation, I want to know what made it popular in the first place. I'm certainly not alone in this POV.

 

[shauner111]

Do you guys realize that literally no one outside of nerds on internet forums cares that batman killed. Throwing around your essays on how sinful snyder is that he changed your hero and that he's not like he is in muh comiks.

He's a character introduced in this movie. The past in the comics should have 0 effect on what he's "suppose" to do. Him killing doesn't break any rule that has been established in this world. It's not inconsistent. Should be judged as any other character.

This is a cop out.

Then make a movie and bring in a different character. So you're saying if they introduce a new Bruce Wayne and he has no penis, is a homosexual who has been screwing Joker for 10 plus years with a strap-on, has breast implants and wears a pink bandana under his cowl....that's a valid interpretation just because his name is still Bruce Wayne and he wears a batsuit? Or if he does everything Batman does but he's a cannibal?

 

[Kanye West]

This is a cop out.

Then make a movie and bring in a different character. So you're saying if they introduce a new Bruce Wayne and he has no penis, is a homosexual who has been screwing Joker for 10 plus years with a strap-on, has breast implants and wears a pink bandana under his cowl....that's a valid interpretation just because his name is still Bruce Wayne and he wears a batsuit? Or if he does everything Batman does but he's a cannibal?

If he's well written then it really doesn't matter. Following source material is a bonus.

it's the last thing the filmmaker should be worried during his creative process. "I have this really cool idea but the comic batman (or whatever character) wouldn't do this so I won't use it" is ******ed.
Him killing should be a non issue. If you wanna talk about how he's underdeveloped, inconsistent, then sure whatever. But not following source material should never be a flaw. This isn't the comics. Let the filmmakers do something with the character.

And again, comic book readers make up a very small part of the audience. So no, the GA doesn't care that batman kills. It's a non-issue.

 

[Kanye West]

I think you'll find they do. its barely worth debating with people who rate Kanye West though

I don't know how that is relevant but do not disrespect the god

 

[Lantern Venom]

If he's well written then it really doesn't matter. Following source material is a bonus.

it's the last thing the filmmaker should be worried during his creative process. "I have this really cool idea but the comic batman (or whatever character) wouldn't do this so I won't use it" is ******ed.
Him killing should be a non issue. If you wanna talk about how he's underdeveloped, inconsistent, then sure whatever. But not following source material should never be a flaw. This isn't the comics. Let the filmmakers do something with the character.

And again, comic book readers make up a very small part of the audience. So no, the GA doesn't care that batman kills. It's a non-issue.

A filmmaker/studio should realize that it isn't their character to change unnecessarily. The worst outings in the CBM genre have come when the Hollywood stuffed shirts have gotten the erroneous idea that they can do better than the creators of the characters.

Also, it's become pretty obvious that pre-existing fans of characters are a particularly vocal and strong force. Hardcore fans gave FF2015 a toxic rep on social media and doomed it before it opened. They also forced Fox to make Deadpool.