Bryan Singer's X-Men 3

[gambitfire]

Interestingly enough, it doesn't neccessarily make me wrong, either.

For once i agree it doesn't!



but your not right!

 

[Theweepeople]

I have a response to everything The Guard has asked. Just like I had answers for everything other X3 lovers have thrown at me. It's a shame his hostile attitude has influenced me to avoid posting these responses. Besides, if believing that he won the debate against me makes him feel good and allows him to sleep at night then more power to The Guard.

Meanwhile here are some of the things that still bother me about X3:


Magneto inconsistently showing no compassion towards one of his best friends(Mystique) who got cured and showing compassion towards the death of one of his enemies(Xavier).

Jean irrationally killing off Cyclops.

The 2 second scene in which Xavier tells Logan and Oro to go to Akali Lake without any further explaination. WTH?!!!!

Magneto's convincing Jean to join his group brotherhood by saying "Come with me".

Magneto not being afraid of Jean joining his group after she just killed one of her friends(Xavier).

Jean's unclear motivation for joining Magneto's group. Unless acting like a zombie and doing almost nothing around the brotherhood for the rest of the film was her motivation.

Magneto wanting Jean to stay with the brotherhood after Callisto warns him that she is dangerous and after Jean threatens Magneto with the cure needles.

Magneto hiring an army of mutants who have useless powers.

Jean standing around in the end battle scene doing nothing for the majority.

Jean inconsistently killing everyone when she is threatened by the marines behind her with the cure guns but, not killing anyone at the beginning of the attack when she was also threatened by the same marines firing their cure guns at her, Magneto, and his army.

Jean hurting Logan but, not killing him. She killed Xavier because he threatened her by trying to get into her mind but, she was not threatened after reading Wolverine's mind in the final scene?!!!!

Using the mutant cure as a plot device to push the movie forward and then show it's irrelevance in the final scene with Eric at a park.

I will add some more things to this list so stay tuned.t:

 

[gambitfire]

Yes the Wolverine mind being read bugged me alot, she didn't do it? what happened?

That and alot of the Jean aspects you mentioned.

Magneto stands up to Pyro for insulting Xavier but easily persuades the woman who just killed him to join his brotherhood with one sentence.......?!?!

 

[The Guard]

I have a response to everything The Guard has asked. Just like I had answers for everything other X3 lovers have thrown at me. It's a shame his hostile attitude has influenced me to avoid posting these responses. Besides, if believing that he won the debate against me makes him feel good and allows him to sleep at night then more power to The Guard.

Convenient that you simply choose not to respond.

It's not really about winning the debate. But by pretending to be bored with it (which you clearly aren't), you're showing everyone that you are not commited to your argument.

Meanwhile here are some of the things that still bother me about X3:

Magneto inconsistently showing no compassion towards one of his best friends(Mystique) who got cured and showing compassion towards the death of one of his enemies(Xavier).

Jean irrationally killing off Cyclops.

The 2 second scene in which Xavier tells Logan and Oro to go to Akali Lake without any further explaination. WTH?!!!!

Magneto's convincing Jean to join his group brotherhood by saying "Come with me".

Magneto not being afraid of Jean joining his group after she just killed one of her friends(Xavier).

Jean's unclear motivation for joining Magneto's group. Unless acting like a zombie and doing almost nothing around the brotherhood for the rest of the film was her motivation.

Magneto wanting Jean to stay with the brotherhood after Callisto warns him that she is dangerous and after Jean threatens Magneto with the cure needles.

Magneto hiring an army of mutants who have useless powers.

Jean standing around in the end battle scene doing nothing for the majority.

Jean inconsistently killing everyone when she is threatened by the marines behind her with the cure guns but, not killing anyone at the beginning of the attack when she was also threatened by the same marines firing their cure guns at her, Magneto, and his army.

Jean hurting Logan but, not killing him. She killed Xavier because he threatened her by trying to get into her mind but, she was not threatened after reading Wolverine's mind in the final scene?!!!!

Using the mutant cure as a plot device to push the movie forward and then show it's irrelevance in the final scene with Eric at a park.

I will add some more things to this list so stay tuned.

Your "issues" with the movie either involve hyperbolic stretching of what's actually onscreen, or simply lack common sense in your assessment of them. Others have addressed every single one of those points, and thoroughly and effectively disputed them. You just don't want to be wrong, and that's a shame, because if you took another point of view for about two seconds, you might find yourself enjoying aspects of the movie more. It's a shame that you are unable to respond to our arguments at all. We might be able to have a constructive debate.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Magneto stands up to Pyro for insulting Xavier but easily persuades the woman who just killed him to join his brotherhood with one sentence.......?!?!

Yeah if he cares so much for Xavier, why didn't they make a point of perspective, (for example) with the camera focusing Charles' wheelchair and Magneto staring at it? That would've given more *coughs*pacing*coughs* and the public to react. Something... that would justify why Magneto shouted "Charles!" on the first place. (Yeah I know I still continue with the debate )

 

[The Guard]

Because the writers/director expect you to realize what "Charles!" means. There was then a hell of a moment between Magneto and Pyro to show Magneto's feelings about Xavier.

 

[X-Maniac]

There is another point people might miss too. The disintegration/incineration of Phoenix's victims is no doubt a grim reminder for Magneto of the horrors of Auschwitz. After Xavier's death in that house, the only way is out of there and forwards with a dream of mutant freedom. There is of course the ever-present irony of Magneto's terrorist behaviour being at times like those in those death camps.

But Magneto and Jean share common ground - she doesn't want to be controlled/caged/fixed, he doesn't want himself or mutants as a whole to be cured/controlled. He fears the control and imprisonment of mutants, she fears the control and 'imprisonment' of part of herself. The common cause they share in the forest encampment is the desire for freedom. But there is a part of her still anchored to what she has left behind, and that's where Logan comes in.

 

[Theweepeople]

If The Guard feels good about believing boredom is not one of the reasons I won't directly respond than more power to him. Meanwhile, here are some of the things that still bother me about X3.


Magneto inconsistently showing no compassion towards one of his best friends(Mystique) who got cured and showing compassion towards the death of one of his enemies(Xavier).

Jean irrationally killing off Cyclops.

The 2 second scene in which Xavier tells Logan and Oro to go to Akali Lake without any further explaination. WTH?!!!!

Magneto's convincing Jean to join his group brotherhood by saying "Come with me".

Magneto not being afraid of Jean joining his group after she just killed one of her friends(Xavier).

Jean's unclear motivation for joining Magneto's group. Unless acting like a zombie and doing almost nothing around the brotherhood for the rest of the film was her motivation.

Magneto wanting Jean to stay with the brotherhood after Callisto warns him that she is dangerous and after Jean threatens Magneto with the cure needles.

Magneto hiring an army of mutants who have useless powers.

Jean standing around in the end battle scene doing nothing for the majority.

Jean inconsistently killing everyone when she is threatened by the marines behind her with the cure guns but, not killing anyone at the beginning of the attack when she was also threatened by the same marines firing their cure guns at her, Magneto, and his army.

Jean hurting Logan but, not killing him. She killed Xavier because he threatened her by trying to get into her mind but, she was not threatened after reading Wolverine's mind in the final scene?!!!!

Using the mutant cure as a plot device to push the movie forward and then show it's irrelevance in the final scene with Eric at a park.

The horrible looking wire work of beast at the end. Those scenes reminded me of the killer rabbit scene from Monty Python and the holy grail.

 

[LostSon88]

You already posted that?!

 

[gambitfire]

Because the writers/director expect you to realize what "Charles!" means. There was then a hell of a moment between Magneto and Pyro to show Magneto's feelings about Xavier.

But not soo much during the moment he's being killed or at all when he ask Jean to join his cause?

 

[gambitfire]

There is another point people might miss too. The disintegration/incineration of Phoenix's victims is no doubt a grim reminder for Magneto of the horrors of Auschwitz. After Xavier's death in that house, the only way is out of there and forwards with a dream of mutant freedom. There is of course the ever-present irony of Magneto's terrorist behaviour being at times like those in those death camps.

But Magneto and Jean share common ground - she doesn't want to be controlled/caged/fixed, he doesn't want himself or mutants as a whole to be cured/controlled. He fears the control and imprisonment of mutants, she fears the control and 'imprisonment' of part of herself. The common cause they share in the forest encampment is the desire for freedom. But there is a part of her still anchored to what she has left behind, and that's where Logan comes in.

Very true but in an unintentional sense Magneto is controlling of Pheonix.

I still feel Phoenix being of her greater power would not bother with Magneto's cause, Mainly for the reason you say she should, she's lost, confused, doesn't know what to do. Which is why you believe she should follow Magneto, but this is also why i believe she shouldn't follow Magneto.

It's all in how we look at things. When Pheonix gained this power in the comic books she destroyed a world. I'm not saying she should of gone of on her own in a rampaging spree, but Her story feels forced in the Cure story which is too awry for me to enjoy.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I still feel Phoenix being of her greater power would not bother with Magneto's cause, Mainly for the reason you say she should, she's lost, confused, doesn't know what to do. Which is why you believe she should follow Magneto, but this is also why i believe she shouldn't follow Magneto.

I believe there's more to it than just "she's lost" that X-Maniac keeps repeating.

I think that's part of it, a big part of it...

She says to Xavier "I have no family"

He says she does, but that family also means caging the beast. Phoenix doesn't want that... that's why she rejects Xavier.

But that scene gives off the "lost" aspect of Jean. After she destroys Xavier, she's even more lost, and confused. Magneto offers her support in her time of need. At that point in time, it's beyond that being Magneto, the arch enemy of the X-Men. At that point in time, it's comfort in her most emotional state of crisis she's ever faced.

That's the "she's lost, he provides an anchor for her" piece. But there's also the piece that Magneto praises her, all but worships her, encourages her...

I don't care how powerful you are... nobody is going to want to avoid praise and encouragement.

Why would Jean want to go off on her own, when she can form an alliance with someone who wants the exact same thing as she does? She doesn't want to be controlled, she wants to be free. Magneto also wants her to be free, because she is the perfect specimen, homo-superior at it's greatest form.

She hints towards any chance of Magneto wanting to control her when she says "you sound just like him" when he begs her to not cure him. But he assures her that he does not want to control her, that he wants her to be free.

Those thoughts and acts of encouragement are sure to definatley help her emotionally, as well as her ego.

It wouldn't really make sense for Jean to go off on her own. Why? When she has people in Magneto and his Brotherhood who all want the same thing as she does? Common goals call for common alliances. There is absolutley no reason for her to go off on her own. Because she's so powerful? So what? Magneto is pretty damned powerful too, and doesn't want to be controlled, but he still forms alliances... he formed The Brotherhood of Mutants, and formed an alliance with the X-Men in X2...

(P.S. How exactly did Magneto know Nightcrawler was with the X-Men? Yup... another one of them there "plot holes" you all like to complain about with X-Men: The Last Stand...)

There was no reason for Jean to go off on her own. She didn't have a home, she felt lost. Magneto gave her that anchor, gave her a home. Xavier's home meant "caging the beast"... Phoenix didn't want that. Magneto's home meant being free, being who she was. That is something Jean wanted. In the meantime, she found stability, she found support, she found encouragement... it makes much more sense for Jean to be with the Brotherhood than to just wander off somewhere by herself because she's all powerful.

It also gives her a bit more character, a bit more motivation, and doesn't make her as much as a zombie...

She'd have no character if she was just some all powerful being who went off on her own because she was all powerful and didn't need anyone's aid.

The fact that she forms this alliance gives her a motive; she wants to destroy the cure and be free. It gives her emotion; she wants a home, she wants stability, she wants an anchor. It's not just "I am Phoenix! No mortal can stop me!" Lame. Boring!

Have her with the Brotherhood, and it gives her a bit more humanity.

Humanity is more than just dialogue. It's implied as well. Her joining a cause gives her humanity. It reflects that Jean / Phoenix IS still Jean Grey, is still a human being. The need for comfort, support, encouragement, and a home. All human emotions. Jean / Phoenix needs these because she is still human. Not a zombie entity that took over her body and demands everything be destroyed.

There is more to life than just being all powerful, whatever that term may imply.

In real life, there is a saying "money can't buy happiness", and I believe that. You can have all the money in the world, but it means nothing without true love from friends, family, and a loving husband / wife, whichever gender you may be.

Well, Jean has all this power... but she's still human... and she still feels human emotion, such as a sense of home, family, and self. She wants encouragement, Magneto provides it. She wants a home, Magneto provides it. She wants support, Magneto provides it.

Magneto offers everything that appeals to her human emotions, while also appealing to her Phoenix lust for power. It's a win-win situation, and there's absolutley no reason for her to stay on her own.

 

[La_She-Beast]

In my POV you're thinking too much. There are loads of things you're saying,good points, but I can see no evidence of them in the movie. And I'm quite sure that even the writers didn't have in mind. When I saw the movie it was Magneto taking a look at Charles and going away with Jean. There are no moments, which makes you THINK. (and that for all scenes) When Magneto was speaking to Jean in the forest, it was just "Jean, stay here with us" when imo there was no evidence/no deep moment were Jean was a lost girl searching for a family (as far as I remember) Perhaps Magneto, since he heard her "I have no family", he could've told her "You finally found a family"-something like that

 

[gambitfire]

^ I agree with LSB.

Besides you've clearly seen this movie dozens of times Nell if the message wasn't sent across the first time around then it may not have been properly sent.

IMO.

 

[X-Maniac]

In my POV you're thinking too much. There are loads of things you're saying,good points, but I can see no evidence of them in the movie. And I'm quite sure that even the writers didn't have in mind. When I saw the movie it was Magneto taking a look at Charles and going away with Jean. There are no moments, which makes you THINK. (and that for all scenes) When Magneto was speaking to Jean in the forest, it was just "Jean, stay here with us" when imo there was no evidence/no deep moment were Jean was a lost girl searching for a family (as far as I remember) Perhaps Magneto, since he heard her "I have no family", he could've told her "You finally found a family"-something like that

I agree it wasn't as explicitly stated as it could have been, but there are parts that hint at what is going on.

1) In the mansion infirmary - 'I don't wanna fix it'... then she leaves the mansion. This tells us she doesn't want to be controlled or fixed, and that she doesn't want to be at the mansion any more

2) At her parents' house - 'I have no home'... this tells us she feels she does not belong at the mansion or with the X-Men, because of what happened to Cyclops, because of what the mansion is associated with in her mind (many years of being controlled and repressed).

3) At her parents' house -'You'd think you want to cure her Charles' (or something very similar)... this ties in the cure with the mental blocks, both being forms of control that the recipients do not want!

4) 'My dear, come with me' - this tells us that Magneto knows Jean from long ago, that he empathises with what has happened to her (despite his regret over Xavier's death).

5) At the forest encampment, she finds a home, empathy (though Callisto is unsure), freedom ('I want you to be what you are, as nature intended') and she reminds Magneto that she does not want to be controlled, threatening him with the cure darts.

6) 'This cure is meant for all of us' is what he tells her at the forest camp and you can see her thinking about what he says. Her feelings on control of mutants are pretty obvious... And again at Alcatraz 'This is what they want for all of us' as Magneto is cured to stop him. The attempt to cure her with multiple cure darts is the final trigger.

I agree that more dialogue might have helped in places, but the information is all there in the above scenes.

 

[The Guard]

Personally, I think some of you aren't thinking enough. He's spot on. It's all but obvious from the way the film is structured and the way the characters interact that this is how the writers want you to interpret Jean Grey's time with Magneto and the Brotherhood. Those are indeed her motivations. Explicitly stated? Nope, but it's definitely there. You are expected to think when watching parts of this movie. The writers and director made this film that way on purpose.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

^ I agree with LSB.

Besides you've clearly seen this movie dozens of times Nell if the message wasn't sent across the first time around then it may not have been properly sent.

IMO.

If I have seen the movie dozens of times, and you haven't, then perhaps I've had better oppourtunity to catch things that you previously didn't...

I admit that the execution is flawed.

It is what makes Singer a better storyteller than Ratner. The story that Ratner told was a much better story than the stories that Singer told. But Singer was better at telling them.

However, the story that Ratner tells has all of that in place. It might not be executed as well as Singer would have done, but the story has all the pieces in place. There does come a time when it's the job of the audience to put the pieces together.

I admit the creative team didn't always put it together as well as they could have, but the pieces are there, and they are put into place to show the bigger picture. Now it's on you to see that the pieces are there.

 

[gambitfire]

Yes i agree as well, the execution is flawed.................but i still see missing pieces. I've seen the movie maybe 3 times but it's still fresh in my head and i'm sure if i watch it know i won't see it the way you do.


In the end LSB is right your just putting too much into it; and it feels like you're throwing things that arn't there and if they are i highly doubt the writers intended them too be, it may just be things that fell into place, to you anyways. You've heard the interviews do they sound like they knew half the things they where talking about?

 

[Mdizzle]

Magneto inconsistently showing no compassion towards one of his best friends(Mystique) who got cured and showing compassion towards the death of one of his enemies(Xavier).

Jean irrationally killing off Cyclops.

The 2 second scene in which Xavier tells Logan and Oro to go to Akali Lake without any further explaination. WTH?!!!!

Magneto's convincing Jean to join his group brotherhood by saying "Come with me".

Magneto not being afraid of Jean joining his group after she just killed one of her friends(Xavier).

Jean's unclear motivation for joining Magneto's group. Unless acting like a zombie and doing almost nothing around the brotherhood for the rest of the film was her motivation.

Magneto wanting Jean to stay with the brotherhood after Callisto warns him that she is dangerous and after Jean threatens Magneto with the cure needles.

Jean standing around in the end battle scene doing nothing for the majority.

Jean inconsistently killing everyone when she is threatened by the marines behind her with the cure guns but, not killing anyone at the beginning of the attack when she was also threatened by the same marines firing their cure guns at her, Magneto, and his army.

Jean hurting Logan but, not killing him. She killed Xavier because he threatened her by trying to get into her mind but, she was not threatened after reading Wolverine's mind in the final scene?!!!!

Oh man, goooood points. Most of the "I dunno, I dont get it"s revolve around Jean's storyline...I still can't really believe that she wouldn't kill Magneto himself, since he was the badass who tried to wipe out half of NY in X1, etc. etc. Yeah and I still can't believe she'd have enough control to not kill Logan, but kill Scott in the beginning...Jean could do some serious damage, I don't understand why she actually didn't...like you said, standing around for most of the battle.

 

[X-Maniac]

Yes i agree as well, the execution is flawed.................but i still see missing pieces. I've seen the movie maybe 3 times but it's still fresh in my head and i'm sure if i watch it know i won't see it the way you do.


In the end LSB is right your just putting too much into it; and it feels like you're throwing things that arn't there and if they are i highly doubt the writers intended them too be, it may just be things that fell into place, to you anyways. You've heard the interviews do they sound like they knew half the things they where talking about?

I think the pieces were all there, and maybe they were there even more in the original script. We don't know exactly how the writers envisioned the story; we've never seen the original script. The nearest we get to fleshing out what's in the movie is the novelisation and the deleted scenes and storyboards.

But if you didn't like the movie and refuse to let yourself see the pieces and join the dots simply because you want to hate it, then that's not good.

The writers have never revealed the full scope of their ideas, except saying they had written in a Phoenix firebird, which got cut. And we might have been able to ask them more on Xverse, but there's no way they will come back there now.

I guess it's easier to appreciate the nuances and hints in the movie if you liked it.

When Phoenix leaves the mansion and goes off with Magneto, it's obviously for a reason. She has left behind her previous life as a controlled, caged, repressed, weak person. And the deaths of Cyclops and Xavier make it even harder to go back, and even more important to move on. She finds some solace in the company of other outcasts, of others who also want freedom to be what they are... although she believes she is far beyond most of them, as shown in the way she stands above them in the forest and at Alcatraz. She knows she is a goddess who could destroy them with a thought. If she'd gone off on her own, we'd have no dialogue at all from her.

 

[gambitfire]

I believe there's more to it than just "she's lost" that X-Maniac keeps repeating.

I think that's part of it, a big part of it...

She says to Xavier "I have no family"

He says she does, but that family also means caging the beast. Phoenix doesn't want that... that's why she rejects Xavier.

Well we didn't meet her other family we just walked into an empty home so we don't know what's up with that. and i'm not going to automatically assume anything.

But that scene gives off the "lost" aspect of Jean. After she destroys Xavier, she's even more lost, and confused. Magneto offers her support in her time of need. At that point in time, it's beyond that being Magneto, the arch enemy of the X-Men. At that point in time, it's comfort in her most emotional state of crisis she's ever faced.

Support?! how so?
Logan clearly offered the same kind of help and she didn't do go with him.
and i know that he wasn't going to "cage the beast". So then why didn't she just go with him?

That's the "she's lost, he provides an anchor for her" piece. But there's also the piece that Magneto praises her, all but worships her, encourages her...

Yea but he's also scared s#!tless of her.

I don't care how powerful you are... nobody is going to want to avoid praise and encouragement.

I don't get this?
I felt the Phoenix was above this but w/e this isn't the comic books.

Why would Jean want to go off on her own, when she can form an alliance with someone who wants the exact same thing as she does? She doesn't want to be controlled, she wants to be free. Magneto also wants her to be free, because she is the perfect specimen, homo-superior at it's greatest form.

Like i said before indirectly he's controlling her, he's clearly using her for his own cause. She can read minds but it seems like she never uses this to her advantage. I think she can be free on her own.

She hints towards any chance of Magneto wanting to control her when she says "you sound just like him" when he begs her to not cure him. But he assures her that he does not want to control her, that he wants her to be free.

no he said Jean....JEAN!!

and then bam Jean came back that's it. Did she read his mind? i dunno she can no longer do that or so it seems.

Those thoughts and acts of encouragement are sure to definatley help her emotionally, as well as her ego.

so your saying she needs a cheerleader?
She's tortured because she just killed the man she loves and has a split personality dillema but she needs to be cheered on?
I'll take it that the Pheonix may want too but i don't see why or for what, she's clearly powerful enough as it is.

It wouldn't really make sense for Jean to go off on her own. Why? When she has people in Magneto and his Brotherhood who all want the same thing as she does? Common goals call for common alliances. There is absolutley no reason for her to go off on her own. Because she's so powerful? So what? Magneto is pretty damned powerful too, and doesn't want to be controlled, but he still forms alliances... he formed The Brotherhood of Mutants, and formed an alliance with the X-Men in X2...

She was toying with Magneto...................................So i'm so supposed to also believe she's doing this for the good of mutant kind when what we see is a Phoenix who destroys anything for any reason...........(she did kill some brotherhood members remember )

(P.S. How exactly did Magneto know Nightcrawler was with the X-Men? Yup... another one of them there "plot holes" you all like to complain about with X-Men: The Last Stand...)

Oh yea that really compares too a whole character purpose lost in an entire second act.

The writers themselves said they didn't like where they went with her but they had no choice.

There was no reason for Jean to go off on her own. She didn't have a home, she felt lost. Magneto gave her that anchor, gave her a home. Xavier's home meant "caging the beast"... Phoenix didn't want that. Magneto's home meant being free, being who she was. That is something Jean wanted. In the meantime, she found stability, she found support, she found encouragement... it makes much more sense for Jean to be with the Brotherhood than to just wander off somewhere by herself because she's all powerful.

Sure it makes sense for the plot, not the character.
Oh and Magneto gave her a home? Yea the woods are real nice. Maybe for encouragment but not a place to make permanent home amongs friends and things ( i don't mean literally but in the sense of it wasn't really a home as far as family goes)

It also gives her a bit more character, a bit more motivation, and doesn't make her as much as a zombie...

But she was a Zombie...............

She'd have no character if she was just some all powerful being who went off on her own because she was all powerful and didn't need anyone's aid.

Like the real Pheonix did?

The fact that she forms this alliance gives her a motive; she wants to destroy the cure and be free. It gives her emotion; she wants a home, she wants stability, she wants an anchor. It's not just "I am Phoenix! No mortal can stop me!" Lame. Boring!

What motive she kills those she fought for, at that point the motive dies.
and your calling a piece of the source boring great.
She's a psycho we are made to assume she wants one thing but her actions speak differentley. Your looking way tooo into it.

Have her with the Brotherhood, and it gives her a bit more humanity.

Humanity is more than just dialogue. It's implied as well. Her joining a cause gives her humanity. It reflects that Jean / Phoenix IS still Jean Grey, is still a human being. The need for comfort, support, encouragement, and a home. All human emotions. Jean / Phoenix needs these because she is still human. Not a zombie entity that took over her body and demands everything be destroyed.

i already answered to this, this is just repetitive.

There is more to life than just being all powerful, whatever that term may imply.

In real life, there is a saying "money can't buy happiness", and I believe that. You can have all the money in the world, but it means nothing without true love from friends, family, and a loving husband / wife, whichever gender you may be.

and she was going to get this from the brotherhood ppl who have tried to kill her before?

Well, Jean has all this power... but she's still human... and she still feels human emotion, such as a sense of home, family, and self. She wants encouragement, Magneto provides it. She wants a home, Magneto provides it. She wants support, Magneto provides it.

Magneto offers everything that appeals to her human emotions, while also appealing to her Phoenix lust for power. It's a win-win situation, and there's absolutley no reason for her to stay on her own.

Human emotions? the same chick who was shown toying with other ppl?
Magneto encourages her sure, but like i said he was USING her and was obviously scared of her, he knows better you either have this almighty entity on your side or you don't in which case your F*ed....................that sounds like a real loving motive.....COULD JEAN NOT SEE THIS?!

 

[X-Maniac]

Oh man, goooood points. Most of the "I dunno, I dont get it"s revolve around Jean's storyline...I still can't really believe that she wouldn't kill Magneto himself, since he was the badass who tried to wipe out half of NY in X1, etc. etc. Yeah and I still can't believe she'd have enough control to not kill Logan, but kill Scott in the beginning...Jean could do some serious damage, I don't understand why she actually didn't...like you said, standing around for most of the battle.

What happened in NY in X1 is now irrelevant in Jean's mind. She isn't the same person.

She killed Cyclops when Jean tapped into the extra power she had, thinking she could control it. She couldn't. As she killed Scott, the Dark Phoenix personality was awakened. Jean tapped into the same extra power in the dam in X2 when she fought Cyclops and flung his blasts back at him with evil fire in her eyes. At the start of X3, any mental barriers were now totally gone because she had pushed through them to hold back the water and raise the jet. When Jean used the immense power she found she had in X3, she couldn't control it. Scott died and the Dark Phoenix was then free.

She only acted when threatened. She didn't want to be controlled, fixed, caged or cured. And since Magneto also didn't want himself or the mutant community to be controlled or cured, they had a similar aim. But the Dark Phoenix only rose when she was personally threatened. Magneto was fighting for mutant rights, she was fighting for her own rights.

 

[gambitfire]

I think the pieces were all there, and maybe they were there even more in the original script. We don't know exactly how the writers envisioned the story; we've never seen the original script. The nearest we get to fleshing out what's in the movie is the novelisation and the deleted scenes and storyboards.

What good is it doing anyone there.

But if you didn't like the movie and refuse to let yourself see the pieces and join the dots simply because you want to hate it, then that's not good.

So it's right for you to continue making this false accusation but wrong when someone like last Sunrise calls you blinded by your loyalty?

LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING! HOW MANY TIMES TO YOU ESPECIALLY HAVE I APOLOGIZED WHEN I WAS WRONG??!! LIKE TWICE BUT YEA I DID IT. AS IN YEA I NOTICED I WAS WRONG IN THAT I DIDN'T REFUSE TO BELIEVE I WAS!!

You need to let go of your ego it's making you look bad as person.

The writers have never revealed the full scope of their ideas, except saying they had written in a Phoenix firebird, which got cut. And we might have been able to ask them more on Xverse, but there's no way they will come back there now.

I'm not even complaining about the lousy effects that was just icing on this cake from hell.
They won't come back because they said what they had too say, and couldn't continue to back up anymore of the things they did. But yea some ppl where really harsh on them.

I guess it's easier to appreciate the nuances and hints in the movie if you liked it.

When Phoenix leaves the mansion and goes off with Magneto, it's obviously for a reason. She has left behind her previous life as a controlled, caged, repressed, weak person. And the deaths of Cyclops and Xavier make it even harder to go back, and even more important to move on. She finds some solace in the company of other outcasts, of others who also want freedom to be what they are... although she believes she is far beyond most of them, as shown in the way she stands above them in the forest and at Alcatraz. She knows she is a goddess who could destroy them with a thought. If she'd gone off on her own, we'd have no dialogue at all from her.

I already addressed this.

I might have enjoyed it if the studio and Director hadn't hacked it up and they didn't kill of favorable characters.

 

[Mdizzle]

I dunno I still think a lot of that wasn't made very clear in X3. Whether it's true or not, there seemed to be a bit of the "real" Jean still left...I just don't really agree with the idea of having Scott killed off in the beginning (or at all really), and having Logan ultimately be in the position of ending it all...If anything I would have rather seen her tussle with Scott before she demands he kill her or whatever.

Yeah it's a different Jean, but not necessarily...I interpreted the Dark Phoenix persona as being sort of like the embodiment of impulses...embracing the power and control and stuff being a branch of that. Instead of restraining the power, she goes on impulse and lets go...so in terms of what she chooses to do with it (kill Xavier? Because he's trying to control her?), anything she's felt sort of would trigger that in a way. Wouldn't she distrust or even dislike Magneto in light of everything? He's trying to control her too, so she could have capped that a** as well.

I dunno I thought of the Phoenix like unrestrained passion and fury...so stuff like that doesn't really depend on whether or not you're directly threatened...it's more about doing what she's always wanted to do, but has been held back by restraining the phoenix. Ack, i dunno. Just my interpretation.

 

[X-Maniac]

So it's right for you to continue making this false accusation but wrong when someone like last Sunrise calls you blinded by your loyalty?

I wasn't addressing you personally. Where i said 'you' i meant it generally, replace it with 'a person'. You're being oversensitive!

LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING! HOW MANY TIMES TO YOU ESPECIALLY HAVE I APOLOGIZED WHEN I WAS WRONG??!! LIKE TWICE BUT YEA I DID IT. AS IN YEA I NOTICED I WAS WRONG IN THAT I DIDN'T REFUSE TO BELIEVE I WAS!!

You need to let go of your ego it's making you look bad as person.

I know I'm a good person. I don't need affirmation from the anonymous world of the internet. Some people in real life say I'm the nicest person they've ever met - that's good enough for me!

I'm not even complaining about the lousy effects that was just icing on this cake from hell. They won't come back because they said what they had too say, and couldn't continue to back up anymore of the things they did. But yea some ppl where really harsh on them.

It would have been nice to ask them other things... But being able to ask them so much was a luxury we haven't really had before anyway. How many times can you ask the screenwriters questions like that? And, maybe, they didn't want to add anything else.