Wow that's the lamest interpretation of the Phoenix personality if that's what the writers really intended, pls don't degrade the Phoenix any futher from the all-powerful cosmic entity to such a state of wimpiness.
Wimpiness? We are talking about the same character right? The one that...every time she was threatened...put a serious whooping on whoever did it, or scared the crap out of them? The one that was disingitrating almost everything and everyone with a thought at the end of X3? The one with the godlike powers?
Why should she even be afraid of being controlled, fixed, caged or cured when she's vastly more powerful than anyone in the whole universe. Can a Goddess be controlled, fixed, caged or even cured?
Why should she be afraid of being controlled, caged, etc? Because she HAD been in the past. Because that's how emotions and psychology works. Because she (Dark Phoenix the personality) WAS controlled and caged. For years. Inside Jean. When you're say, a woman who has been abused in the past, what do you tend to fear most? That's right. Abuse. So if you're a personality who has been caged...do you want to go back to being caged?
It's a lot like what happened in FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON.
In the movieverse of X-Men, we don't have cosmic entities. So it's not a question of her being 'vastly more powerful than anyone in the whole universe.'
Seems like she is a pretty damn powerful cosmic being anyway (she can take things apart on the atomic level, that's pretty impressive), so any issues with this should really be a moot point. No other characters in the X-movies have been shown to have the ability to alter matter itself.
Even comicbook Phoenix was able to be manipulated, corrupted, defeated, restrained and destroyed. Magneto twice defeated Phoenix in the comics, for instance. On one of those occasions, he killed her.
Exactly. Phoenix is not really immortal in the strictest sense.
She has to be given some humanity, some weakness, or there wouldn't be a story. Readers/viewers have to be able to relate to the characters of they won't bother with the story.
Exactly.
Yes, but... she's an important character. You can't give 'hints' like they did with Beast.
They didn't just "give hints". They showed you these things. See, here's the thing I find interesting. Bryan Singer "hints" at things in X-MEN and X2 (Pyro's feelings toward Bobby and the X-Men's values) and people call it subtle. Brett Ratner does almost the same exact thing, or better, flat out puts overt stuff in the movie that you're supposed to figure out easily, and people go "It's not even there".
How they handled that information is something, how I saw it, quite vague and vulgar. Phrases are way too obvious and there's no depth on them.
This is quite simply incorrect. There absolutely depth to a lot of the dialogue found in X3. Even some of the puns have some depth to them.
No kidding. The reason I will continue to post this message is because I have no interest in debating X3 lovers anymore. I joined this forum in June and was hoping to finally have a friendly discussion over why I dislike X3. But after arguing with so many X3 lovers who are hostile towards everything I say my interest in debating them has completely evaporated. Some of the blame for the constant rudeness displayed in these threads is the result of X3 haters who bashed X3 lovers. Kuruwsa and thevileone were always rude towards X3 lovers by constantly attacking them. Thelastsunrise was also rude towards some X3 lovers and he was temporarily banned for his attacks. However, I believe the X3 lovers have treated the X3 haters with more disrespect than vice versa. X3 lovers like antarish, horrorfan, and blinfurry were downright viscious in their profanity laced tirades towards anyone who disliked X3.
"He/she started it!"
You know what I find amusing? We're on a message board, discussing a movie where the main thematics are about tolerance and seeing both sides of an issue...and yet so many people resort to a form of what boils down to bigotry...labels like "X3 haters" or "X3 lovers", and spit them out with so much venom and hatred. Didn't you all learn anything from years of X-Men comics and movies? Obviously not how to be objective about anything. Or tolerant.
Bragging about being happy with X3's box office numbers in mid June.(Suggesting that Fox was happy with Ratner and the X-Men series may continue.)
Rothman can't brag about fantastic box office numbers? X3 was a huge financial success. Why shouldn't he be pleased?
Confirming that Fox wouldn't make anymore X-Men films in August.(So Fox is not happy with Ratner and the box office numbers?)
I don't recall him "confirming" anything. He's said that this is the end to the trilogy Bryan Singer began. But the man's helped greenlight WOLVERINE and YOUNG MAGNETO. Don't believe everything you hear, or read too much into it unless you're considering all the angles.
Confirming that Fox is interested in hiring Singer to do X-Men 4 after he is done with Superman.(Fox wants to rehire someone they never respected and banned from the company lot?)
Who says that FOX never respected Singer? HE stopped working for THEM and jumped to a rival company during an important project's development, so of course he wasn't permitted on the company lot. He'd just screwed them over, and he didn't work for them anymore. They're allowed to be upset with him.
Confirming that Fox wants to hire Singer to do Wolverine even though rival studio Warner Bothers have him locked up for at least 2010 and possibly 2012.(Fox wants to rehire someone they never respected, banned from the company lot, and has no time to produce movies for them.)
You make a lot of major assumptions about people.
These don't look like the actions of someone who knows how to successfully run a business.
Then why has the business he's been running been so successful?
If my boss constantly changed her mind about me and my co-workers involvement with projects then I wouldn't get any work done and the company would lose money.
Who says Rothman ever changed his mind about Singer? It was, if you will recall, Singer's decision to leave X3 to do SUPERMAN RETURNS for a rival studio. FOX didn't ask him to leave, or fire him. Singer chose to leave of his own free will. And various FOX spokespeople have said since Day One that maybe they'd like to have him back.
Therefore, I will keep posting my messages that bash X3 so pressure will be put on Fox to either get their act together or fire Rothman and the rest of his cronies that are ruining this company.
That's not gonna happen. Especially if you just keep insulting the company. Go fight a battle you can win.
Magneto inconsistently showing no compassion towards one of his best friends(Mystique) who got cured and showing compassion towards the death of one of his enemies(Xavier).
We've discussed this. You showed a complete lack of common sense regarding the scene. I'll try again. Magneto absolutely shows compassion toward Mystique (just not much) and he shows reverence for the person she was as a mutant, and he never actually shows COMPASSION about Xavier's death. He shows REGRET, and reverence for who Xavier was. Regret and compassion are not the same thing.
Jean irrationally killing off Cyclops.
Of course its irrational. She's just been reborn as an irrational creature of instict. Rationality doesn't really enter into it that much. That's part of the characterization. She's supposed to be irrational.
The 2 second scene in which Xavier tells Logan and Oro to go to Akali Lake without any further explaination. WTH?!!!!
It's called a bridging scene. It's so the audience doesn't go "How'd they know to go to Alkali Lake"? It's short, because a long character development scene ending with Xavier asking the X-Men to go to Alkali Lake would kill the tension of the previous moment. As such, the scene indicates that something horrible has happened, and that it must be investigated immediately.
Magneto's convincing Jean to join his group brotherhood by saying "Come with me".
It seems to me like that's just what he used to convince her to leave the house. Not to join the Brotherhood. It's more likely that his speech to her about being a goddess is what convinces her to join up (which she didn't seem to do anyway in any real fashion).
Magneto not being afraid of Jean joining his group after she just killed one of her friends(Xavier).
Who says he's not afraid? Clearly he respects her power, and he doesn't want to control her (as Charles did) so why should he be afraid of her? Just because you're afraid someone might possibly hurt you somehow if you piss them off doesn't mean you can't interact with them.
Jean's unclear motivation for joining Magneto's group. Unless acting like a zombie and doing almost nothing around the brotherhood for the rest of the film was her motivation.
Several people have explained this to you. The reasoning is made clear in the film. And by the way, it's amusing that this bothers you so much, because if you think about it, Jean's motivations for joining the actual X-Men team in this franchise are equally "unclear".
Magneto wanting Jean to stay with the brotherhood after Callisto warns him that she is dangerous and after Jean threatens Magneto with the cure needles.
The biggest risks often net the biggest gains. And it speaks to Magneto's ego, and belief that what he is doing with Jean is going to work.
Magneto hiring an army of mutants who have useless powers.
Magneto's army did not have useless powers. We just didn't SEE what powers each mutant had, or if they had amazing powers. They were defeated, yes, but that doesn't make their powers useless. It means the X-Men beat them. Without the X-Men there, though, Magneto's army would have rolled right over the government's.
Jean standing around in the end battle scene doing nothing for the majority.
She is, as others have pointed out, supposed to be surveying what she considers lesser beings in their petty conflicts which don't seem to affect her. You can't bring her into the battle as a writer and start having her just do godlike things, because then it would be over, and the X-Men would be dead, and humans would be screwed. Besides, Dark Phoenix is shown not to care what happens if it doesn't involve her. And she clearly doesn't care about what's going on until she herself is directly threatened.
Jean inconsistently killing everyone when she is threatened by the marines behind her with the cure guns but, not killing anyone at the beginning of the attack when she was also threatened by the same marines firing their cure guns at her, Magneto, and his army.
Maybe she knew full well that Magneto could handle it. Magneto did handle it. Had he not, odds are Dark Phoenix would have, had SHE been threatened. She wasn't, in any real way. The needles never got near her.
Jean hurting Logan but, not killing him. She killed Xavier because he threatened her by trying to get into her mind but, she was not threatened after reading Wolverine's mind in the final scene?!!!!
Ah, but Xavier didn't just want to get into her mind...he wanted to IMPRISON her again. Wolverine DIDN'T want that (and couldn't have anyway), and that's made clear earlier in the film. He just wanted to tell Jean that he'd do anything for her, and that he loved her, and would do what he had to to help her. And it's entirely possible that Jean was fighting Dark Phoenix for control because she didn't want to hurt her friend. Entirely possible.
Using the mutant cure as a plot device to push the movie forward and then show it's irrelevance in the final scene with Eric at a park.
You really just don't get it. You continue to think the cure is just a plot device, and it's not. There's more depth to it than that. The cure wearing off at the end of the movie is the POINT. It's the entire resolution of the cure thematic. The point is that things go in cycles, and that the world is going to have the same problems it always had. "Curing" someone of their "differences" or ideologies doesn't work.
The horrible looking wire work of beast at the end. Those scenes reminded me of the killer rabbit scene from Monty Python and the holy grail.
And what exactly does an incredibly agile man look like when leaping over a rooftop and landing hard yet gracefully?
Magneto deciding to waste his army on something he, Jean, or the both of them could have done all by themselves.
This is an assumption on your part. Seeing as how the movie makes it obvious that he isn't about to be able to TELL Dark Phoenix to do anything, and would have been screwed to high heaven without Arclight to take out the cure weapons, had he tried to go in alone. Magneto's not dumb enough to march into battle and think he's got all the advantages. Which he didn't. He made a smart move testing out the army's strategies with his first wave, and having Juggernaut there to go after Leech. It's much safer for Magneto himself, which we know he likes from X-MEN.
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