The Dark Knight Rises Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 1

[Batman jr.]

He was awesome in it

Bale is the future of acting.

No, that's a bit too much, but Deniro's, Pacino's & Nicholson's careers are almost completely over (or they should "explode" one more time), and Bale is their adoptive son.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

There's a lot of misconceptions about what acting is. Many people think actors just say lines. That's not true in any sense. Actors are reactors. They react to what they are given by the other person. That's how we interact in real life. Our responses are determined by the one opposite to us. Actors are meant to live in the moment and being in the moment means to be somewhat unconscious of what you're doing because reacting is a subconscious thing in and of itself.

Very well put -- I don't think I can put it better myself. "All the world's a stage" huh?

Though it gets frustrated when it comes down to try and remain conscious of those reactions in normal, ordinary conversation--you want to project a personality, but being conscious of that personality takes it toll on your mind. I think, for Bale and other great actors of his generation, they've managed to internalize the characters so well that--as you've said--they're also responding unconsciously as the characters would.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Bruce full growth in TDKR. It's hard to believe he was the little boy back then...

He's really turned into a living a legend. Full rage, pain but resolve to do what's right for Gotham. Facing Bane is going to be his toughest challenge, he may get defeated the first against him but I know he'll come back stronger once he returns to defeat Bane once and for all with all his might and anger. Thus proving his resolve to save the city in the name of Parents that tried but failed. But he won't, hes gonna show Bane the determination that fueled him to never give up and conquer his pain and despair making him the dark knight rises.

t: Such brilliant protagonist development.

YES! it always did feel like it was "batman year one" -- it'd be grand to see a Batman who takes it to the extreme end of that cycle.

I love how Nolan has, in these sequels, managed to construct an entire narrative--indeed an entire world--around the last scenes/dialogues from the previous film:

"What about escalation?"

"The hero we deserve, but not the one we need right now... so we'll hunt him. Because he can take it--" etc.

HIS OWN WORK becomes the starting point of the next story. genius.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

This has to be my favourite shot of ol Bats from the film (aside from the winter-banner)

 

[Nave 'Torment']

A dark comedy, in the style of American Psycho; oh hell yes!

Hell, I think Bale would do great in a Wes Anderson film.

He'd own a Wes Anderson film. But I really want to see him more in period pieces -- especially if he ever does a Shakespeare adaptation, i think he's more than qualified for any number of the roles from the classics.

Though, of course, if there is a genre that he shines it, it has to be psychological thriller. Lynch does an excellent job with his films, but for some reason or another it seems that you can really change the characters around in those without really effecting the movie or the story at large. I dunno, that's something that I always got out from them. Otherwise, a Lynch/Bale collaboration would be epic. For all the awesomeness in The Machinist the story paced well but had a conventional quality about it, and Bale was the only good thing about the entire movie. If it was handled by a more experienced director I think the movie would've been worthy of the reputation that he gets from it.

 

[shallbecomeabat]

This has to be my favourite shot of ol Bats from the film (aside from the winter-banner)

Ohohohohohoooooo... I love that he is hidden in his cape again. If I had to nitpick on TDK it would be the fact that Nolan took away a lot of Batmans mythological aura worried me, if that makes any sense to you. He never showed him in that urban legend kind of thing in TDK, the way he did it before in BB, so seeing this picture and a few others from TDKR where his cape is again draped over his shoulders, or the big shot of him standing on the bridge, I know I am in for a treat with TDKR.
I love my bigger than live Batman poses, so I really think Nolan has me covered again.

Theatricality and deception and all that stuff t:

For all the awesomeness in The Machinist the story paced well but had a conventional quality about it, and Bale was the only good thing about the entire movie. If it was handled by a more experienced director I think the movie would've been worthy of the reputation that he gets from it.

Slightly off topic, but in my eyes, The Machinist is a masterpiece. Don't understand how someone could blame the director for anything He did a very Hitchcockian movie in a very european way. Love the look, the direction, the colors, the music, the editing, all the stuff they have hidden in the background that actually screams the big twist right in your face the entire time... ahh... love that movie so much. The way they made Barcelona look like California... really loved it. One of my top 20 fave films of all time.

 

[BestGirl]

The Batman speaks the truth.

Anyways, back to Nolan and Bale's Bruce/Batman -

In TDK, Bruce was willing to give up being Batman but when "peace time" happened during those 8 years and Batman wasn't needed anymore, we saw Bruce in a downward spiral. What brought that about? Was it just fueled by the fact that he can't have this normal life with Rachel being dead or this realization that he doesn't know how to function if he doesn't have Batman in his life?

I'm curious to know how long his downward spiral has been going on. Has he been loopy for eight whole years? If that's the case, why has Alfred just stood by and watched Bruce self-destruct for almost a decade?

 

[kvz5]

I don't think people understands this enough. I love the fact that you pointed out the subtle differences in Bat-Voice. And I don't care if they were made consciously or not -- that's just a much better way to appreciate Bale-Bats!

To me, by the time TDK ended and the first shots of a masked-Batman came out for TDKR, it was as if Nolan's Batman was a character on its own right. You stopped seeing Christian Bale under there, just as you stop seeing actors like Gary Oldman or Russell Crowe in the roles that they play out in each film. Or even Johnny Depp and Heath Ledger's Joker. That's saying a lot about both the writing as well as the acting. With Batman Begins it was still "okay young Bruce Wayne as rookie Batman" but with TDK it was Batman realised in every way possible. What he did at the end of TDK, sacrificing his own reputation for Harvey, that's something you can easily imagine in the comics or JLU.

I can't really add anything else to this. Well said.

I'm curious to know how long his downward spiral has been going on. Has he been loopy for eight whole years? If that's the case, why has Alfred just stood by and watched Bruce self-destruct for almost a decade?

I'm guessing almost all throughout those 8 years. Interesting point about Alfred. I suppose he's been trying but failing (Bruce is a stubborn guy after all) which probably resulted in some sort of conflict between the two.

This whole depressed state of Bruce is interesting to me because at the end of TDK he decided to be "whatever Gotham needs me to be" and it turns out that Gotham didn't need him to be Batman after Dent's death and it looks like he can't handle it. He started needing Batman more than Gotham needed Batman.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Ohohohohohoooooo... I love that he is hidden in his cape again. If I had to nitpick on TDK it would be the fact that Nolan took away a lot of Batmans mythological aura worried me, if that makes any sense to you. He never showed him in that urban legend kind of thing in TDK, the way he did it before in BB, so seeing this picture and a few others from TDKR where his cape is again draped over his shoulders, or the big shot of him standing on the bridge, I know I am in for a treat with TDKR.

I love my bigger than live Batman poses, so I really think Nolan has me covered again.

Theatricality and deception and all that stuff t:

Completely agree! We need more mythical Batman than vigilante super-soldier Batman. One thing that Nolan has done, I believe, is really give us a traditional noir hero with Bruce, but the mythical aura that Batman had in, say, Tim Burton or the Animated Series, is only alluded to here. Granted, that Nolan's idea of "fantasy" is in its "reality" so I'll give it a go, but you do need to make Batman a mythical figure as much as he is because otherwise you can't go ahead and make him a believable superhero -- the larger-than-life quality is important, and yes, something that I believe they'll get to in TDKR in the highest possible way -- we already have chalk-drawings suggesting that Batman's presence is shown through his absence. AWESOME.

Slightly off topic, but in my eyes, The Machinist is a masterpiece. Don't understand how someone could blame the director for anything He did a very Hitchcockian movie in a very european way. Love the look, the direction, the colors, the music, the editing, all the stuff they have hidden in the background that actually screams the big twist right in your face the entire time... ahh... love that movie so much. The way they made Barcelona look like California... really loved it. One of my top 20 fave films of all time.

Well too each his own I guess I loved the Machinist and Bale in it, and yes, the tone of the film was very beautifully delivered, but it seemed like (and i didn't look up the directors) something similar to The Broken -- where all the classical cinematic devices are used or juxtaposed in a way that seems like imitation rather than inspiration. For The Broken, whoever the director was, managed to hit on a lot of classic Kubrickesque techniques and they immediately scream Kubrick. By contrast, Nolan is inspired by the same techniques in Inception but still retains his own originality. I loved The Machinist but what I specfically disliked about its direction was how, for all the mystery surrounding Reznik, the revelations were foreseeable. Just in my opinion, the story could've been a bit more frightening if it didn't seem like it'd been done before. But yes, I agree, it's still a great movie on its own

 

[redhawk23]

Side note, I was just thinking, with the jump a head a further 8 years, how old is Alfred? He'd be getting pretty far up there in age.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I'm guessing almost all throughout those 8 years. Interesting point about Alfred. I suppose he's been trying but failing (Bruce is a stubborn guy after all) which probably resulted in some sort of conflict between the two.

This whole depressed state of Bruce is interesting to me because at the end of TDK he decided to be "whatever Gotham needs me to be" and it turns out that Gotham didn't need him to be Batman after Dent's death and it looks like he can't handle it. He started needing Batman more than Gotham needed Batman.

I think that with Alfred, Bruce's depression is just as anxious as the looming sense of loss and severe economic and political claustrophobia that characterises Gotham City -- the frustration and eventual revolution is built up by years (in this case 8 years) of anxiety so at the moment when Alfred loses it and harangues Bruce in the trailer, that's the 8 years worth of pent-up frustration. THat's why it's so emotional. The same with bane's emergence as a liberator in gotham -- he's capitalising as the face of a revolution after 8 years of being oppressed.

I can't wait to see how Bruce eventually decides he'd become Batman again. The fanboy in me still wants him to be active for the 8 years, maybe invisibly, but the story itself will just seem so much more potent if those 8 years really does have Batman in exile. If he's, as you said here, not okay with the fact that Gotham no longer needs Batman, it'd mean that with the emergence of Bane Gotham finally does, and that's when he comes back. I'd love to see him addressing that issue of whether he'd continue being Batman if it meant he'd need bad guys like the Joker and Bane to keep content. I mean, wouldn't that indicate that he needs these villains because he really is afraid of being just Bruce Wayne?

 

[kvz5]

He'd own a Wes Anderson film. But I really want to see him more in period pieces -- especially if he ever does a Shakespeare adaptation, i think he's more than qualified for any number of the roles from the classics.

Though, of course, if there is a genre that he shines it, it has to be psychological thriller. Lynch does an excellent job with his films, but for some reason or another it seems that you can really change the characters around in those without really effecting the movie or the story at large. I dunno, that's something that I always got out from them. Otherwise, a Lynch/Bale collaboration would be epic. For all the awesomeness in The Machinist the story paced well but had a conventional quality about it, and Bale was the only good thing about the entire movie. If it was handled by a more experienced director I think the movie would've been worthy of the reputation that he gets from it.

You know what I think would be brilliant? Bale and Fincher in a psychological thriller.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

You know what I think would be brilliant? Bale and Fincher in a psychological thriller.

Ohh that'd be grand! Especially if it's a full-on Detective story. It'd be like watching batman without vigilantes and terrorists!

 

[kvz5]

Bale's Esquire Interview. Pretty good read.

 

[Travesty]

Please put that in spoiler tags for size.

 

[JackWhite]

Bale's Esquire Interview. Pretty good read.

Bale looking like a boss. That man can sure wear a suit.

 

[AnneFan]

Haha. I like the Batman-ised page with the cowl drawn on. Look at Bale's expression.

"You're not Batman any more" - Alfred says this while Bruce still has a longing for the cowl. I think Alfred's quote will come back to be true, but the longing Bruce has will be gone.

 

[Darthhawkeye]

I think as fanboys and girls we all wish that Bats would be fighting Clayface and Black Mask over the 8 years since TDK, but this Trilogy has been something special and unique to the Super Hero film genre, a series with a beginning and ending. Batman will always live on, it's just this VERSION of Batman that's ending. Think of this as a graphic novel; tells the story of the character, but isn't in the regular continuity.

 

[Darthhawkeye]

And for all those who harp on Nolan for not being "comic booky" and sticking to the source material, we've gotten versions of BATMAN YEAR ONE, THE LONG HALLOWEEN, THE KILLING JOKE and now it looks like KNIGHTFALL, NO MAN'S LAND and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.
Don't wanna seem like I'm ripping on Burton, but he did have the Joker kill the Waynes.......

 

[MrWayne]

I wonder how Alfred feels about Bruces sacrifice at the end of TDK. Does he approve of such lies and cover ups? Does he agree with the choices that Bruce decided to make for Gotham? I would think that Alfred would be if not understanding, at the very least happy that it allowed Bruce the means to retire from going out as Batman every night.

 

[JackWhite]

And for all those who harp on Nolan for not being "comic booky" and sticking to the source material, we've gotten versions of BATMAN YEAR ONE, THE LONG HALLOWEEN, THE KILLING JOKE and now it looks like KNIGHTFALL, NO MAN'S LAND and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.
Don't wanna seem like I'm ripping on Burton, but he did have the Joker kill the Waynes.......

It always ruffles my feathers when people have weak arguments like that about Nolan's Bat-films. The way Chris has been able to use different motifs, plot points and character traits, all while putting his own stamp on it has been nothing short of brilliant, IMO.

I'm just glad to say that I have finally got my Batman-on-film, and with a stunning cast of some of my favorite actors current and of all time.

 

[The Joker]

And for all those who harp on Nolan for not being "comic booky" and sticking to the source material, we've gotten versions of BATMAN YEAR ONE, THE LONG HALLOWEEN, THE KILLING JOKE and now it looks like KNIGHTFALL, NO MAN'S LAND and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.
Don't wanna seem like I'm ripping on Burton, but he did have the Joker kill the Waynes.......

Exactly

His movies are peppered with comic book influences. I wrote a whole blog on how much he put into the Joker alone: http://www.jokerfans.blogspot.ie/

 

[Darthhawkeye]

Watched BB and TDK this weekend and I feel the same way; I'd of course never say the films are PERFECT but, for me, they are the BEST representation of Bats that we've had, at least in my opinion. NO comic book character has been adapted 100% perfectly, with fans thinking they are too tall, too skinny, too old, whatever, we will always have preconceived notions on how OUR characters should be adapted. All I know is, when Bale walks in, I think THATS BATMAN/BRUCE WAYNE....and no, this will not stop me from supporting/enjoying the movies that come after these (unless Joel Schumacher directs....)

 

[Darthhawkeye]

Exactly

His movies are peppered with comic book influences. I wrote a whole blog on how much he put into the Joker alone: http://www.jokerfans.blogspot.ie/

Read that post and it was well researched and on point and I think coincides with my post. When we first saw the Nolan Joker, we automatically said HE'S NOT HE JOKER, he's NOT PERMAWHITE!!!! Nicholson may look exactly like the Joker, but Ledger IS the Joker.

That blog was great!

 

[Travesty]

And for all those who harp on Nolan for not being "comic booky" and sticking to the source material, we've gotten versions of BATMAN YEAR ONE, THE LONG HALLOWEEN, THE KILLING JOKE and now it looks like KNIGHTFALL, NO MAN'S LAND and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.
Don't wanna seem like I'm ripping on Burton, but he did have the Joker kill the Waynes.......

Yeah, but your comparing story influences, when most people are comparing characteristics.

 

[Darthhawkeye]

Think it goes back to what I said about never being able to see OUR preferred vision of the character....we ALL have different versions....for me, Nolan has come closest to my preferred BATS, the Batman of the Adams/O'Neil/Aparo 70's, driven, dark, but not AS dark and cynical as the 90's, grim and gritty BATS. Of course, every director is going to add his touches.....