The Dark Knight Rises Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

[elgaz]

I fully believe that Bruce lived and it wasn't a fantasy of Alfred's. I don't believe that because Alfred 'saw' him, or because of the autopilot and batsignal hints, but more because of the entire theme that Nolan wove into the film.

Bruce Wayne hit his lowest point in this film when he was in the prison, complete physical and mental despair. And Alfred and him also had a chasm between them because of Bruce's despair and his inability to ever lead a normal life.

And as the film progresses, Bruce rises from the pits of despair (literally and metaphorically), returns as Batman, and vanquishes the villains. His apparent sacrifice restores hope and order to Gotham.

But I don't believe for one minute that Nolan would let our hero go through all that, to finally regain his sense of hope and his self-importance, only to die ......... even if it was a heroic act of sacrifice. By making sure the film ends with Bruce secretly alive, all the loose ends are tied up in a way which satisfies the storyline but also pleases fans - Gotham is saved, Batman's sacrifice restores hope, Batman's name is cleared, Bruce has some hope of a normal life, and the symbol of Batman can continue on. Everyone's a winner, so to speak.

It also brings a satisfying finality not just to Bruce's journey, but also to Alfred's - Bruce (who is like an adopted son to him) is finally happy and can have a life, a family, etc.

Whereas if Bruce did actually die, we would be left with an Alfred who spends the rest of his days blaming himself for abandoning Bruce, and for not keeping his promise to the Thomas Wayne - that he would look after the one thing most precious to him in the whole world ................... Bruce. I believe that the character of Alfred deserved a better ending than that, and I think Nolan did too.

Also, for those saying that Alfred fantasized seeing Bruce in Paris because this is the language he used earlier in the film: Alfred never actually saw Bruce's face in his fantasies. He only saw the back of a man's head, who he wished would be Bruce. In the final scene we see him not fantasizing, but actually seeing Bruce's face. Pretty cut-and-dry.

Which reminded me of Inception's ending also, where Cobb never actually see his kid's faces in his dreams. The only time he sees them is at the end when they turn towards him. And just for the record, I don't think Inception's ending was a dream - I thought Cobb really was back in his real life. But Nolan is above all else, a storyteller, and I think he likes to leave just a little ambiguity in his films so that it's more personal for each viewer, and each viewer can make their own interpretation of what they see on screen. There's no right or wrong answer really, despite evidence for both .............. it's just fun to hear people describe how they think it went down.

 

[rickfox]

even those two TS version /terrible quality pictures can prove that "Selina is wearing pearl necklace"

not to mention when Blueray / Reg DVD hit the market, with standard quality pictures to show the fact to those who said there are no pearl necklace on Selina's neck when she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the banks of XXXX river near Florence

Spoiler

 

[jonnywhc]

UaalaDan...you really don't understand. Bane telling the people Batman's true identity would literally ruin his plans. The people would be inspired to fight back because it was really Bruce, the "*******" of the city..the prince of Gotham..the richboy who was actually sacrificing it all. They would see that was all an act and that this richboy actually gave it all to the city.

Bane would be overthrown.

 

[kthevs]

That's only hope that he lived. The auto-pilot was fixed, but then we have the time factor to get rid of the bomb and eject in time, if he did eject.

Except that the mTV interviewers make it pretty clear that he lived and faked his death ala the dark knight returns. The novel also confirms it-

There is no debate here.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1690203/dark-knight-rises-ending-chri stian-bale.jhtml

And just as there's an end to what the Caped Crusader can accomplish, there's a line that Nolan as a storyteller refused to cross: killing Batman

Though many signs pointed to the ultimate demise of Bruce Wayne by the end of "Rises," the hero survived and flew off with an unexpectedly happy ending.

Well, it doesn't end with the death of Batman, we know that much. Asked if there was any part of him that wanted to see Bruce die in the end, Bale smiled and said, "Not from an acting point of view. Not from any desire to never have to act again. I've enjoyed immensely playing the role."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/16...nding-anne -hathaway.jhtml?xrs=share_twitter

The closing moments of the Batman trilogy — which find Bruce Wayne (Christian Bale) not dead but alive, well and dining with Hathaway's Selina Kyle in picturesque Florence while former cop John Blake (Joseph Gordon-Levitt) seemingly takes over his caped-crusader duties — has earned raves from critics, fans ... and the movie's stars.

 

[kthevs]

Does the movie ever show him ejecting? That's where people can have different conclusions

That makes no sense. Showing him ejecting defeats the point. Nolan wants the audience to think he's dead before he surprises them. Showing him ejecting is like starting off Usual suspects with Spacey wearing a shirt that says "I am Keyser Soze."

 

[Ecuanime]

That makes no sense. Showing him ejecting defeats the point. Nolan wants the audience to think he's dead before he surprises them. Showing him ejecting is like starting off Usual suspects with Spacey wearing a shirt that says "I am Keyser Soze."

It does makes sense. After the explosion, the only time they show Bruce again is at the same cafe, where Alfred occasionally goes and imagines that Bruce is there, a happy man.

Not trying to argue, because I completely understand where you're coming from, just saying that it can be seen in various ways. It's open to discussion. That's what makes the ending interesting.

 

[Ecuanime]

Except that the mTV interviewers make it pretty clear that he lived and faked his death ala the dark knight returns. The novel also confirms it-

There is no debate here.

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Thanks for posting this. Even with those interviews--I'll watch them--and the novelization, the action played on screen can be left to several interpretations. That's all I'm saying. I'm not really debating if he died or lived, because I see it could happen either way. Just trying to get people to realize there is more than one way of viewing what happened at the end.

 

[jonnywhc]

It does makes sense. After the explosion, the only time they show Bruce again is at the same cafe, where Alfred occasionally goes and imagines that Bruce is there, a happy man.

Not trying to argue, because I completely understand where you're coming from, just saying that it can be seen in various ways. It's open to discussion. That's what makes the ending interesting.

The auto-pilot was fixed.

Nolan didn't show us the ejection because it makes the end more of a surprise.

 

[kthevs]

It does makes sense. After the explosion, the only time they show Bruce again is at the same cafe, where Alfred occasionally goes and imagines that Bruce is there, a happy man.

Not trying to argue, because I completely understand where you're coming from, just saying that it can be seen in various ways. It's open to discussion. That's what makes the ending interesting.

You're not getting it. You cannot show him ejecting because that proves he is alive. Nolan wants the audience to think he's dead before the reveal. The audience is SUPPOSED to think he's dead before the reveal. You can't give away your reveal like that. It takes away all emotion from the aftermath and the funeral. It's supposed to be a nice surprise for us that he's alive. Alfred never says he imagined Bruce was there. He said he hoped to see him there some day.

 

[kthevs]

Thanks for posting this. Even with those interviews--I'll watch them--and the novelization, the action played on screen can be left to several interpretations. That's all I'm saying. I'm not really debating if he died or lived, because I see it could happen either way. Just trying to get people to realize there is more than one way of viewing what happened at the end.

There isn't more than one. Not if you pay attention to the fox scene, and the missing pearls scene and the direction of the cafe scene (as the filmmakers on Nolan fans pointed out, the music, lighting, cuts all make it obvious Bruce is alive).

The novel confirms that Alfred isn't seeing things. He goes to the cafe several times and never sees Bruce, and then one day he finally does see Bruce. He can't even remember Selina's name at first, but he notices that she looks like the maid that he once met and that she's wearing the missing pearls (tying into what happened to them).

 

[jonnywhc]

Some people should realise Alfred wasn't telling Bruce about a dream, he was telling him about actually events. He thought a man resembled Bruce from behind, he turns, it isn't him. Now at the end Bruce is FACING Alfred, waiting for him to notice him.

The Blake part may be open to interpretation, but the Bruce part really isn't. He lives.

 

[DigificWriter]

Like I said earlier, the only ambiguity in TDKR's ending, both in terms of the cafe scene and the scene of Blake inside the cave and what it means, is of fans' own making.

 

[elgaz]

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck, guess what? It's a duck.

Every implication is that Bruce is alive. The clues, hints and evidence point at that. And it rounds the story off in a very neat way. So why think otherwise?

 

[AnneFan]

Indeed. Bruce lived. 100 percent. There's no doubt about it at all from my end.

 

[Midnight Black]

OMG are people still arguing this or saying "that it can be interpreted multiple ways?" Give it a rest. Bruce lived!

Man, for those that disagree you would think that they had never seen a movie or understand how to use clever film making to create suspense and surprise. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

I can somewhat understand the argument for Bane not telling Gotham who Batman was, but to me that is the same as Ras Al Ghul/LOS not telling Gotham in BB who Batman was also. It's not a plot hole. It's just part of the villain/hero relationship mythos. Or you can see it as an honor/respect thing between League members or whatever.

 

[zmystico]

The ONLY ambiguous thing to me is if Blake was left the Batcave to aid the police when needed or to become a symbol of his own. Knowing the toll and sacrifices you have to make to be Batman, I cannot see Wayne wanting anyone to follow in those footsteps...especially considering that he succeeded in his goal of inspiring the city of Gotham.

I cannot recall the exact dialog but Wayne was at the Batputer and said the police isn't/haven't been able to figure something out and Alfred blasts him for basically not giving them the information they need. He then goes on about all his power/money/resources that he doesn't have to be Batman but wants to be.

 

[Batman4Ev3r]

Venus posted the scans of the ending from the novelization - http://pantyfire.tumblr.com/post/27929443393/last-few-pages-of-the-dark-knight-rises-relevant-john

Fox and Alfred definitely knows that Bruce is alive. What Alfred saw was real. Blake doesn't know. Not sure about Gordon really.

Wow, don't know why I didn't realize there was a novelization...like I said...more of a casual fan. So, explain this to me. The novelization follows the actual movie events but provides more detail...so in other words...it's official, correct? Meaning the ending written in the novelization is the ending in the movie, right? If so, thanks a bunch, that at least officially clears it for me

 

[Batman4Ev3r]

Thanks for posting this. Even with those interviews--I'll watch them--and the novelization, the action played on screen can be left to several interpretations. That's all I'm saying. I'm not really debating if he died or lived, because I see it could happen either way. Just trying to get people to realize there is more than one way of viewing what happened at the end.

I agree that if you look just at the action on the screen, you could interpret it as he lived or died. However, with what was posted regarding the interviews and the novelization....it's clear their intention was that Bruce lived, and that it wasn't a dream. So, you can argue that it was a weakness of the film for not conveying that it was real well enough to us, but their intention seems clear to me now. Thanks to everyone for the posts, helps me feel like I now have an ending.

 

[paladin2769]

It's totally full circle. Especially since the trilogy starts with a boy (bruce) falling into darkness then ends with another boy (blake) rising into the light.

Bats has provided a symbol of hope after the fear and panic of begins/tdk. The cycle that is beginning with blake will be different as a result.

Bats= creatures of night, theatricality and deception

Robin= creature of day, no theatricality or decpetion.

Big ass difference.

I suppose that the remark to Blake by the clerk, that he should use his (middle) name, "Robin", can/should also be interpreted that he would continue not as the Batman but as Robin. Just a thought.

 

[Ecuanime]

Some people should realise Alfred wasn't telling Bruce about a dream, he was telling him about actually events. He thought a man resembled Bruce from behind, he turns, it isn't him. Now at the end Bruce is FACING Alfred, waiting for him to notice him.

No, I listened carefully, and he says he goes to this cafe and fantasizes. I'm not saying he imagines going to a cafe. But goes to that cafe and pretends/thinks about/fantasizing that Bruce is there. In that first clip during this speech it does show another man that turned around, and that's Alfred coming back to reality.

 

[jonnywhc]

Fantasizes it was Bruce. When the man turns his hopes are squashed.

Therefore - it was real and then at ending his hopes came true. Its like hoping you see someone in town and it looks line them til you see up close..that is until it actually happened for real.

edit - its not like he went to that cafe specifically for that. While having his drink he thought and hoped it was Bruce, but it wasn't, til it was. The end

 

[The Guard]

How would Bane telling Gotham that Batman is Bruce Wayne ruin his plan?

Bane's plan revolved around revealing the nature of the Dent Act holding the criminals in prison, and turning the criminals against the upper classes.

He was rallying criminals to his cause, not everyday citizens.

 

[jonnywhc]

Because it would inspire the Gothamites to fight back, pretty simple.

The truth Dent's crimes crushed the people, but the truth of who Batman was would have gave them inspiration at that stage.

 

[The Guard]

Finding out Bruce Wayne is Batman would inspire the Gothamites to fight back, when they were apparently just not bothering to even consider it before?

Why?

What's knowing Bruce Wayne is Batman going to do to help them fight a madman with a nuclear weapon?

Heck, I wish that's what we'd gotten. Then at least the people of Gotham would have had a role in all this.

 

[jonnywhc]

I really can't say more than I have on this subject. If you can't get it, you can't get it.

Finding out who Batman is wouldn't change much. Finding out its Gotham's Prince..finding out its Bruce Wayne..would have caused an uprising. Why? If you have to ask..