The Dark Knight Rises Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

I have seen the movie twice and the ending is fantastic. The way Gordon looks at the Bat signal makes me think that he knows Bruce is alive. I agree that Bruce could have let Gordon know he was alive in another way, but the repaired Bat signal was a good choice.

The ending with JGL becoming Robin or the new Batman makes me want to see another one. The story could be Robin facing off with villians like Black Mask, Riddler, Penguien (sp), deadshot, and maybe even Joker, Harley Quinn, and Scarecrow again lol.
 
so why does Blake [BLACKOUT]throw away his badge? (Haven't seen the movie yet)[/BLACKOUT]
 
Batman and Gordon was pretty much partners, so Gordon knowing Batman is Bruce doesn't change anything, he cares about him just the same and would be glad to know his okay.

I think Gordon believes Bruce is dead. But is surprised and happy that something of batman is coming back. maybe blake will let gordon know it is him that is the new batman. i imagine gordon would be cool with that.
 
He's stick with the politics and shackles that go with police work. The argument on the bridge and then the bit after that sealed his decision.
 
1) "how can lucious and the engineers be working on THE BAT, didn't it get atomized in the nuclear blast?"
- yes, that BAT did. but the armory has several versions of all the vehicles and equipment. more than one tumbler, and other gear. and lucious even tells bruce that they have a BAT that comes in black as well. the one the engineers and lucious are working on in the end is a prototype version, and is not even black. its a blue/grey color. Bruce fixed the autopilot via a software patch, not a mechanical fix. So then you could presume that it became native across all the BATs in the armory.

2) "what happened to the pearl necklace?"
- selena is wearing the necklace at the end of the movie. if you don't focus on the bruce reveal, you can see her on the left, and her profile. however, the sunlight and her white skin make it hard to see the offwhite of the pearls. but it is clearly them, once you focus on just her and not bruce.

3) "how the hell can bruce get back into occupied gotham?"
- when gotham is first taken over, Bane's lead henchmen (small bearded guy) goes to the bridge to tell the National Guard guy that they want to negotiate for a stream of food and supplies. Then later you see the special forces guys sneak into gotham inside of a food truck. So it's very reasonable to presume that bruce was also able to smuggle himself back into gotham. It's a prison gotham. Not a problem getting in, the problem is getting out.

4) "how the hell did bruce know where to find alfred at that cafe?"
- because alfred f**kin' told him where it was! earlier in film, he tells him it is a cafe, in florence, overooking the banks of the arno. after that, I will presume that bruce knows how to do recon and track someone down. especially an old white brit vacationing in florence. not um...not to impractical.

5) "is blake now gonna be robin to bruce's batman?"
- I don't think so. This is nolan's batman story. and like any movie based on a series of comic books, it does not necessarily have to be setup like a comic series. wherein the heroes and villains always fight and SURVIVE, so as to do so again another day. this was nolan applying realsim to the mythos, but not literal realism, because its not practical. he made it more believable than say burton's batman, and definitely more grounded that schumacher's schlock.
so with that in mind, bruce can't always be batman, his body would become dust, he would not be able to handle it. plus, he created batman to be an enduring symbol, long after hes gone. he thought Dent would be able to continue the work, legitimately, but he was wrong. but he realizes he needs to stop at some point, and another must take over. this is alluded to several times in the movie. Alfred wants him to stop, and live his own life, to find peace. Bruce explians to Blake in the car that batman must go on, even after bruce dies. He makes the comment to Blake about why you have to wear the mask. That tidbit about how to throw the grenade (possibly him just showing him "the ropes") or not.
The hard part was really Bruce having to come to terms with letting Batman go, truly let him go, and moving on. Not just going out in a blaze of glory, like Alfred was starting to see. Bruce was no longer fearing death, which means he wasn't appreciating life. that is what "true believers" do. and it is a weakness, a copout. That is Bane and Talia. Bruce has to not lose faith, hope, or spirit. He must fight on, to live. If he then encounters death, he must not be afraid, because he fought to the bitter end. he shouldn't be stuck in this despair as he was after Dent and Rachel died, feeling that he just need some scenario to happen where he could finally die as batman.

6) "so then blake is now batman?"
- it seems so. bruce wayne is dead. but bruce wayne found happiness, moving on. fresh start. possibly romatically with selena, or just friends. who knows. Blake will train, over time. and eventually be batman. gordon has a new signal to call upon him when need be. yada yada. in nolanverse it makes sense. events only have to happen once, not over and over for them to be stuff of legend. so yes, technically in this movie, Batman did fight alongside ROBIN. and like the books, robin does eventually become batman (as well as nightwing) And in other films Batman did enconter his greatest nemesis/challenge, THE JOKER. Harvey Dent did become twoface. but nolan not concerned with a franchise. and the aspects and basic ideas of characters are explored. Ras Al Ghul may not literally be immortal here. but his idea is. his plan is. and that is something that Bruce could not stop just one time. And the villains aren't always killed off, they are caught (joker, scarecrow), die (twoface) or unsure (bane was blasted with a cannon, but maybe he survived, who knows. its up to you)

7) "so bane is just a stupid henchmen?"
- not necessarily. the buildup and perception by everyone was that Bane was acting alone, and that he was this "outside the box" wacko that even Ras al Ghul couldn't stand. and that is what leant to his presence and evil stature. but the reveal in the end, was that he was really just a glorified guard dog for Talia. his only weakness and devotion was his love for her. She was the mastermind behind everything, and since she was in the shadows and all, and he in the foreground, then it seemed like he was the diabolical mastermind, always one step ahead. in the reveal, as she's attaching his gas mask back, you see that he loves her. and cares only for her. since she was a child. he's even crying out of his right eye. combo of recollecting how they meant, as well as getting over the few moments of pain he was enduring as batman ****ed up his mask. Talia's reveal does not lessen Bane, it clarifies who he is. its kinda tragic, in a way. (yes, i cried !!!)

8) "but bane was thrown out for being a loon!"
- no, bane was thrown out of league of shadows because of Ras al Ghuls' guilt over losing his great love/wife. Bane reminded him of the hell she was left to die in, and it hurt too much to see bane. so he threw him out. Talia took pity, and was loyal to the man who had protected her. but bane's thinking was not radical. it was no more different than Ras'. He wanted to destroy gotham by having everything kill each other with that fear toxin. Bane & Talia just wanted to cut out the middle man, and blow it all up.
 
I think the ending was intended to spur debate but it does seem to have frustrated a lot of people. I loved it. I can think of all kinds of great things that could have happened after it all ended. And I think THAT was it's purpose.
 
Explain to me exactly how a Batsignal - the symbol of Batman, not Bruce Wayne - is supposed to tell Gordon that Bruce Wayne is still alive. Aside from the moment Bruce mentions just before he flies off with the bomb, all of their interactions with one another came with Bruce being Batman, and, as Rachel Dawes once pointed out, Bruce might be Batman, but Batman isn't Bruce.
 
I don't think Bruce fixed the Batsignal at all, I think Blake did.
 
Explain to me exactly how a Batsignal - the symbol of Batman, not Bruce Wayne - is supposed to tell Gordon that Bruce Wayne is still alive. Aside from the moment Bruce mentions just before he flies off with the bomb, all of their interactions with one another came with Bruce being Batman, and, as Rachel Dawes once pointed out, Bruce might be Batman, but Batman isn't Bruce.

You really don't even bother to read other posts, do you?

Gordon now knows Bruce is Batman and Batman is Bruce so the act of fixing it shows him Bruce is okay.

Its not like he goes ''Wow, Batman fixed this, pitty Bruce is dead.''
 
Again - Batman's final act was saving the city. His status as a legend and a savior is now the inspiration for Gotham.

Gotham no longer needs a Batman, but it does need a guiding hand in its new era...Blake..Nightwing..Robin, whatever you want to call him. Blake isn't a dark knight. He has a different set of principles.

Batman making a comeback after his sacrifice cheapens the symbol. Those kids are VERY inspired and will go on to be the new fine men of Gotham, as apposed to scumbags.
 
^ Do you even comprehend what "Bruce may be Batman, but Batman isn't Bruce" means?
 
Do you even understand that because Gordon knows Bruce is Batman your point doesn't make any sense?

He showed a friend everything is okay, just like Gordon did for Bruce. Doesn't matter that its the Bat-signal and not the Bruce-signal.
 
Could Batman have escaped the explosion by going under water?
 
Do you even understand that because Gordon knows Bruce is Batman your point doesn't make any sense?

He showed a friend everything is okay, just like Gordon did for Bruce. Doesn't matter that its the Bat-signal and not the Bruce-signal.

:up:
 
Do you even understand that because Gordon knows Bruce is Batman your point doesn't make any sense?

He showed a friend everything is okay, just like Gordon did for Bruce. Doesn't matter that its the Bat-signal and not the Bruce-signal.

Rachel knew Batman was Bruce and she still made the statement she made, so Batman letting Gordon know his secret identity at the end is irrelevant. If Bruce wanted Gordon to know that he - Bruce Wayne - were still alive, there are much better ways to have done it than by willing Gordon a new Batsignal.
 
Rachel's opinion doesn't = the truth. Things have changed in time. She said that at the end of Begins! And Gordon isn't Rachel. You aren't making sense.

Gordon made the signal, Bruce remade it to show him he was okay, how's that hard to grasp? It was the thing that connected them - that signal lit up and they would meet and talk. Its something they shared. Bruce didn't share anything with Gordon.
 
Completely wrong. From BB, Batman distinguishes himself from the LOS because he's more about bringing criminals to justice, not executing them. Bruce could train Blake to do the same. Bruce sees Blake as a man that cannot be corrupted, which was one of Batman's key traits until he killed Harvey Dent and took the wrap for his murders

Blake cannot be corrupted but he also has the will to act. Which Ducard tells Bruce is the ONLY important thing.

Nolan drops a lot of hints about Blake and why he would be the appropriate "next protector" for Gotham after Thomas and then Bruce Wayne

- For me the first major clue is when Blake throws away the gun in disgust after he shoots the criminal at the concrete factory.

- Obviously he's also an orphan and he doesn't just "understand" why Bruce does what he does like the foster parents but he feels it in his bones.

- He believes that people need hope no matter what. When the priest is like "what's the point" Blake still wants the kids in the bus so they don't lose faith that things will be okay. He understands how important symbols are.

- Even the detective stuff he does around the city seems reflective Batman's deductive traits.

But there are hints that he will be a different type of hero.. for example he won't wear a mask, he operates in the daylight unlike Bruce and most importantly he is a natural leader of the kids and the weak, something that Batman could not do. There's a lot of hints that he is the evolution of Batman... the hero the city needs a kind of blend of Dent and Batman, but he's incorruptible.

A couple of other points

1) Blake didn't fix the Bat signal, he hasn't even found the Batcave when Gordon finds the new bat signal

2) Batman didn't just leave it so Gordan knows he's alive. There's 10 ways he could have done that. He leaves it for Gordon to USE. That Gordon knows that Gotham will always have a protector.

3) The tracking device was a plot device to track down Selina in the first part of the movie, not for the ending. Alfred TOLD Bruce where the cafe was. If Alfred tracked down Bruce, why would Bruce just happen to be in ITALY of all places right at that cafe? He went there so Alfred knew

4) Batman in Nolan's universe would never have a Robin. That much is clear. But in the course of the movie it actually seems like Blake himself might have a Robin. He's constantly using the kids it kinda seemed to me that one mexican kid in the orphanage could grow up to be a type of Robin to Blake. That's something fun to think about. He won't be Robin to Blake's Nightwing or w/e but it's something fun that Nolan put in there.
 
Rachel's opinion doesn't = the truth. Things have changed in time. She said that at the end of Begins! And Gordon isn't Rachel. You aren't making sense.

It's not an opinion; it's a statement of fact borne out by behavior, and is something that is central to Nolan's trilogy as a whole, but is particularly central to The Dark Knight and is also touched on, albeit in a subtle way, in The Dark Knight Rises.

The Batsignal tells Gordon that BATMAN is okay; it doesn't tell Gordon anything about BRUCE.
 
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You really don't even bother to read other posts, do you?

Gordon now knows Bruce is Batman and Batman is Bruce so the act of fixing it shows him Bruce is okay.

Its not like he goes ''Wow, Batman fixed this, pitty Bruce is dead.''

Short and to the point. I don't know how others miss that :)
 
And the ending shows how he has learned to let go and live life.

lol whatever you say...to Gordon they are now one and the same, so its still Bruce who left him a sigh.
 
Blake cannot be corrupted but he also has the will to act. Which Ducard tells Bruce is the ONLY important thing.

Nolan drops a lot of hints about Blake and why he would be the appropriate "next protector" for Gotham after Thomas and then Bruce Wayne

- For me the first major clue is when Blake throws away the gun in disgust after he shoots the criminal at the concrete factory.

- Obviously he's also an orphan and he doesn't just "understand" why Bruce does what he does like the foster parents but he feels it in his bones.

- He believes that people need hope no matter what. When the priest is like "what's the point" Blake still wants the kids in the bus so they don't lose faith that things will be okay. He understands how important symbols are.

- Even the detective stuff he does around the city seems reflective Batman's deductive traits.

But there are hints that he will be a different type of hero.. for example he won't wear a mask, he operates in the daylight unlike Bruce and most importantly he is a natural leader of the kids and the weak, something that Batman could not do. There's a lot of hints that he is the evolution of Batman... the hero the city needs a kind of blend of Dent and Batman, but he's incorruptible.

A couple of other points

1) Blake didn't fix the Bat signal, he hasn't even found the Batcave when Gordon finds the new bat signal

2) Batman didn't just leave it so Gordan knows he's alive. There's 10 ways he could have done that. He leaves it for Gordon to USE. That Gordon knows that Gotham will always have a protector.

3) The tracking device was a plot device to track down Selina in the first part of the movie, not for the ending. Alfred TOLD Bruce where the cafe was. If Alfred tracked down Bruce, why would Bruce just happen to be in ITALY of all places right at that cafe? He went there so Alfred knew

4) Batman in Nolan's universe would never have a Robin. That much is clear. But in the course of the movie it actually seems like Blake himself might have a Robin. He's constantly using the kids it kinda seemed to me that one mexican kid in the orphanage could grow up to be a type of Robin to Blake. That's something fun to think about. He won't be Robin to Blake's Nightwing or w/e but it's something fun that Nolan put in there.

Great job on those last 4 points. Make a lot of sense. I also felt there was this cool thing about Wayne Manor now being an orphanage type thing. Suggesting that there is this pool of impressionable youth that Blake could also mold. Whether as directly making any one of them his partner, or just having them close so that he also has a presence in their lives. To make sure they learn how to cope, as he has. If not, in a more positive (non-vigilante) type way.
 
lol whatever you say...to Gordon they are now one and the same, so its still Bruce who left him a sigh.


I'm finished going around in circles with you. You clearly missed the point of the way that Nolan and Co. characterized the character(s) of Bruce Wayne/Batman throughout their entire trilogy, and you also completely missed the numerous instances seeded throughout TDKR that pretty heavily imply how the film's ending is going to play itself out.
 

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