Contest Of Marvels II Discussion Thread

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, I agree that Tundra should be taken off. Yes, way too uber.

Personally, I can see reasons to keep some of the characters we know might not make it to the end, or past Round 2. Those characters are the ones that really bring out the debating talents for the person who owns them. For example, I would welcome an opportunity to debate Falcon and Redwing. Firstly, Redwing would be the eyes if there is a vast area in a combat situation. Plus, Falcon has fought besides Captain America...He's been trained by the best. I know we'd keep Daredevil, and it would be possible for a Falcon or a Ronin to win an upset against him.

Oh, and yes, The Ghost is the Iron Man villian.

 

[Trigger]

I know. Zelda is property of the Big N, like Mario and Metroid. There's no way in the nine hells that it would ever by put on another, non-Nintendo system.

Sorry, it looked like someone was asking if it was. I tend to skim posts sometime.

These are mixed up, but here are my suggestions.

Red Ghost- I thought we weren't allowing henchmen? Without them, he's useless.

Viper- I don't think she'll go far unless someone really debates for her.

Slipstream- I still don't think his powers are offensively strong enough to really get anywhere.

Freedom Ring- His series is neat, but I really dislike the idea of having a reality warper in the competition, even if he does have a limited radius.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Sorry, it looked like someone was asking if it was. I tend to skim posts sometime.

Actually, someone did. I was agreeing with you that Zelda coming out on another non-Nintendo system was an impossibility.

 

[wiegeabo]

Even without his Apes, Red Ghost may be a challenge. He can be invisible and intangible, and he is a genius

Couple of quick questions abot the F4 potentials. How strong is Huntara's scythe? What are the differences with House of M Johnny and Sue?

 

[wiegeabo]

Another quick question. Armageddon (eXiles) is on their twice; under eXiles and Hulk. Is that a dupe, or supposed to be two different characters?

 

[Phaedrus45]

I remember when the Red Ghost first came up, I asked about the apes, but don't believe I got an answer. They thing is, the apes are always with him. It's just like someone having their arsenal, or Falcon having Redwing. But, I understand too the dilema of having to defeat all of them or just the Red Ghost. I say let's get JH's thoughts on it.

Like I said before, I'm hesitant on House Of M characters. If there is a sufficient bio on them, then maybe. But, as they are from just a small moment in Marvel history, my thoughts would be to keep them off the list.

Oh, and I agree with Freedom Ring. Too new, too many possibilities open to conjecture.

 

[Trigger]

Another quick question. Armageddon (eXiles) is on their twice; under eXiles and Hulk. Is that a dupe, or supposed to be two different characters?

Two different versions of the same character.

 

[wiegeabo]

They're both marked as eXiles, so that's throwing me off.

I'd rather not see House of M either, especially since I haven't read them. I was just wondering what any differences were if we kept them.

 

[Trigger]

Wierd, if they're both marked as exiles, then maybe it's just a typo?

 

[wiegeabo]

I'm at Midnight Sons now, and I'm wondering how skilled Foundry is at using the weapons she can make. Sure she may be able to make some impressive stuff that would be effective, but if doesn't have the skill or ability to wield them, she may not be a very effective character.

 

[wiegeabo]

Microbe and Swarm don't sound that impressive. Microbe is kind of cheap and is pretty much able to take down anyone who get suffer from bacterial infection. And it sounds like he'd lose in any other fight (from the bio I read).

Swarm...just doesn't seem like a big deal. He's just a guy made up of bees. (Unless they're not regular bees, that would be something I guess.) Anyone who can shrug of beestings would have the upperhand in a fight.

 

[Trigger]

In regards to Foundry, I've always assumed that they were made with her handling them in mind. I don't imagine her making a weapon she couldn't handle very well. I also think Microbe could go very far. Not to mention how unique his powers are.

 

[Phaedrus45]

For the ease of discussing the characters, I'll be listing them in chunks. The first two lists, Keep and Potential are there for ease to see. Tomorrow, I'll do another big chunk for us to look at.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Here is the list again. Characters in bold are the ones I remember being currently questioned as whether they should participate:

Alpha Flight
1. Aurora (Weapon X)
2. Diamond Lil
3. Guardian (Mac Hudson)
4. Madison Jeffries (Weapon X)
5. Murmur
6. Northstar (X-Men)
7. Puck
8. Sasquatch
9. Shaman
10. Snowbird
11. Wildchild (Weapon X)
12. Nemesis (Alpha Flight)
13. Talisman
14. Scramble
15. Windshear
16. Tundra
17. Ranark the Ravager
18. The Master

Avengers
19. Attuma
20. Bulldozer
21. Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
22. Black Panther
23. Bloodwraith
24. Captain America
25. Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh)
26. Carol Danvers
27. Crystal
28. Diablo
29. Firebird
30. Grim Reaper
31. Hank Pym
32. Hawkeye
33. Hercules
34. Iron Fist
35. Iron Man
36. Jack of Hearts
37. Kang
38. Klaw
39. Living Lightning
40. Lord Templar
41. Luke Cage
42. Mandarin
43. Mantis
44. Modok
45. Pagan
46. Piledriver
47. The Presence
48. Proctor
49. Protocide
50. Pulsar
51. Quicksilver
52. Red Skull
53. Scarlet Witch
54. Scott Lang
55. Sersi
56. She-Hulk
57. Silver Claw
58. Spider Woman (Jessica Drew)
59. Starfox
60. Taskmaster
61. Thena
62. Thunderball
63. Tigra
64. Triatholon
65. Ultron
66. Vision
67. War Machine
68. Wasp
69. Whirlwind
70. Wonderman
71. Wrecker
72. X-51
73. Falcon & Redwing
74. Speed
75. Ronin
76. Jocasta
77. Killraven
78. Ikaris
79. Gilgamesh
80. Quasar
81. The Ghost

Young Avengers:
82. Hulkling
83. Wiccan
84. Patriot
85. Stature
86. Iron Lad
87. Kate Bishop

Cosmic
88. Drax (Smart)
89. Firelord
90. Gamora
91. Gladiator
92. Maxam
93. Moondragon
94. Silver Surfer
95. Terrax
96. Era
97. Airwalker
98. Captain Universe (Rann)
99. Clea
100. Dr. Strange
101. Adam Warlock
102. Baron Mordo
103. Baron Karza
104. Morg

exiles
105. Blink (Exiles)
106. Magnus (Exiles)
107. Mimic (Exiles)
108. Morph (Exiles)
109. Namora (Exiles)
110. Nocturne (Exiles)
111. Spider (Exiles)
112. Sunfire (Exiles)
113. Thunderbird (Exiles)
114. Power Princess (Exiles)
115. Spider-Man 2099
116. Armagedon (Exiles)

Fantastic Four
117. Agatha Harkness
118. Annihilus
119. Blastaar
120. Devos the Devestator
121. Doctor Doom
122. Dragon Man
123. Frankie Raye
124. Mr. Fantastic
125. Gorgon
126. Grey Gargoyle
127. Hatemonger
128. Human Torch
129. Invisible Woman
130. Karnak
131. Lyja Lazerfist
132. Maximus the Mad
133. Medusa
134. Nathaniel Richards
135. Puppet Master
136. Psycho Man
137. Ronan the Accuser
138. Super Skrull
139. Thing
140. Trapster
141. Vibraxas
142. Wizard
143. Mad Thinker
144. Red Ghost (& his super apes)
145. Ring Leader
146. Huntara
147. Invincible Woman (House of M)
148. Inhuman Torch (House of M)

I added Huntara and Vibraxas. If I remember right, there bios were hard to find anything about last season.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Okay cool, let's get this baby wrapped up. To answer some questions and comments above:

1) Armageddon is two differant characters. I don't know the Hulk one well, but the Exiles one is the son of Apocalypse. I know that the Hulk one is separate, I just don't know much about him.

2) The House of M characters actually aren't Sue or Johnny at all. The Inhuman Torch is actually the person that we in the 616 universe know as Kristoff, or the son of Doctor Doom (from around FF 400 I know for sure). He's basically a kid who has the human torch's powers, but he's also ruthless and will kill on a whim. Invincible Woman is Doom's wife Valeria, and she's a telekinetic. And same as Inhuman Torch, she's ruthless and will kill on a whim.

3) I don't mind House of M characters as long as we got to know them well, and they have a decent bio. In my opinion, it'd be the same as with Age of Apocalypse characters. I say provided the character is good, then keep them, but I'm okay if I'm overruled.

4) I actually remember giving Red Ghost the goahead to have his apes before, but I'm cautious on it now. I've since actually read some of his comics and I see that the apes are pretty much characters of their own with their own powers. I'm thinking it may be best to just have him work alone, if at all.

Okay, I'll root through the list and give my opinions on characters now.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Alpha Flight

12. Nemesis (Alpha Flight) - Time Travel is a big no no, and I don't much like the idea of limiting characters
14. Scramble - Sounds like a cool character, but just a bit tuber for this game
16. Tundra - Yeah, kinda tuber

 

[JewishHobbit]

Avengers

61. Thena - We haven't decided on Eternals yet, so I'm cautious on her
77. Killraven - Just don't like him, and he seems fairly useless
78. Ikaris - Eternal
79. Gilgamesh - Eternal

Young Avengers

87. Kate Bishop - As much as I like her, she's still new and inexperienced, and with no powers. I think we can do without her.

I'm okay with Falcon and Ronin, and also, Speed should be in the Young Avengers section (for as long as it matters).

 

[JewishHobbit]

Cosmic

94. Silver Surfer - I've already stated many reasons why I don't think he should be in the tourney. Basically just tuber.
100. Dr. Strange - We've decided to omit all final four contestants from last season.

Can't Find Bios On
96. Era
98. Captain Universe (Rann) - I'm having problems finding a bio for him with the c.u. power

 

[Trigger]

Tundra- I looked up his powers, and he is definitely too uber for my tastes. He also seems like someone who'd be at a major disadvantage should a round take place outside of Earth.

Falcon & Red Wing- He's fine with me. I think the wings would make him as dangerous as say Angel or any other flyer. Red Wing also brings in a new form of strategy.

Ronin- Did we not put in Echo? I think she's pretty competent, but I'm curious as to why we're using this version.

Killraven- Too generic, and what are the chances he'd be pitted against a Martian.

Ikaris- I'm okay with him.

Gilgamesh- Same as above.

Silver Surfer- Considering the other competitors, I don't see a problem.

Dr. Strange- He's a cool character, but considering all the feats he's performed in the past. He really is bordering on uber. However, in the same way that a reality warper could be abused, so could a magician of Strange's caliber.

Adam Warlock- I'd prefer he didn't have the Soul Gem.

Baron Mordo- Same as Strange.

Vibraxas- No real info, no participation.

Red Ghost- Already shared my opinion. I think that the Apes would give him a much bigger advantage than Red-Wing. One could argue that the apes are much smarter than Red Wing is.

Huntara- Same as Vibraxas. I won't touch a character that I didn't have good info on.

Invincible Woman- I can't find any info on her for some reason, and I didn't read the FF HoM crossover. until I know more about her.

Inhuman Torch- A fiercer version of the Torch is cool, but I don't think I'd want him over the normal Torch.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'm not seeing the need for Slipstream. He may be able to move around the battlefield real fast and avoid attacks, but how could he really take anyone out with getting them in his portal?

On the other hand, looking the her powers in the Wiki bio, I think Jubilee may be able to last a round or two afterall. She's protected from harmful telepaths, her light bolts can have force behind them, and she can charge things up until they explode.

Now a quick question about Thialfi. Is he just an Asgardian speedster? Besides normal Asgardian endurence and powers, is he just really fast?

 

[Trigger]

Okay cool, let's get this baby wrapped up. To answer some questions and comments above:

1) Armageddon is two differant characters. I don't know the Hulk one well, but the Exiles one is the son of Apocalypse. I know that the Hulk one is separate, I just don't know much about him.

You might be thinking of Holocaust. He was featured in the Exiles and is the son of Apocy. I wish I read this before I posted.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Exiles

116. Armagedon (Exiles) - I like him a lot, but he was just in one arc in an alternate reality. If we go without House of M and such realities, we should omit him as well. I say keep him though.[/url]

Fantastic Four

119. Blastaar - Seems a bit tuber for my taste
140. Trapster - He's bordering lame factor in my opinion

135. Puppet Master - Does he have a limit to what he can control? If he can just wip someone up in prep-time, will he win every time just by having them kill themselves?
143. Mad Thinker - Not a bad character, but I think we can do better


134. Nathaniel Richards - I can't find much info on him

 

[JewishHobbit]

Here's a bio for Huntara, but I can't find one for Vibraxas...

Huntara

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, before I leave work and go pick up my comics for the week, I'm making sure I have this straight:

Out:

Tundra
Killraven
Dr. Strange

Highly possible Outs:

Silver Surfer
Nemesis
Captain Universe Commander Rann
Era

Find information, or probably out:

Vibraxas
Huntara
Invincible Woman
Inhuman Torch
Nathaniel Richards

To be debated a bit more:

Scramble
Red Ghost
Mad Thinker
Puppet Master
Trapster
Blastaar
Armagedon
Kate Bishop
Baron Mordo (we're kicking Strange out, so....)
Ikaris
Gilgamesh
Thena

(The last three, Blaze really wants. But, I would really like to know if Blaze will be participating this season or not, since he's the major voice in wanting them around.)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Here's a bio for Huntara, but I can't find one for Vibraxas...

Huntara

It seems to be about what we knew last year. It doesn't really delve into her powers much or what her weapon can do. I vote to evict for the CoM household.

EDIT:

I just want to say we should remember it took quite a while to replace characters we got rid of. I would like us not to go whole hog, where we'll end up with 50+ characters to try to come up with and have to debate their merits. Otherwise, we will probably not see CoM II start for another 2-3 months. But, Monday through Friday, I'm going to trudge through this and try to keep everything on track now. I've had a good hiatus from the Hype,and feel myself re-energized.