Contest Of Marvels II Discussion Thread

[wiegeabo]

More people will likely be familiar with old Vision. But maybe we could have both. We may get a 'who'd win in a match between them' battle if they met in the tourney?

 

[Phaedrus45]

Just letting everyone know I got a PM with a new person who'd like to join us this next season. I'm real excited about getting some fresh blood into this thing.

 

[POWdER-man]

Here are some I think should be dropped...I will have to consider the remaining characters, and I added Goliath and Radioactive Man as potentials.... This one should last at least a couple of days...

Avengers

Attuma,
Bulldozer,
Black Panther,
Bloodwraith,
Captain America,
Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh),
Carol Danvers,
Crystal,
Diablo,
Firebird,
Grim Reaper,
Hank Pym,
Hawkeye,
Hercules,
Iron Fist,
Iron Man,
Jack of Hearts,
Kang,
Klaw,
Lord Templar,
Luke Cage,
Mandarin,
Mantis,
Modok,
Pagan,
Piledriver,
The Presence,
Proctor,
Protocide,
Pulsar,
Quasar,
Quicksilver,
Red Skull,
Scarlet Witch,
Scott Lang,
Sersi,
She-Hulk,
Silver Claw,
Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter),
Starfox,
Taskmaster,
Thena,
Thunderball,
Tigra,
Triatholon,
Ultron,
Vision,
War Machine,
Wasp,
Whirlwind,
Wonderman,
Wrecker,
X-51

Young Avengers:

Hulkling
Wiccan (Formerly Asgardian)
Vision
Stature (Formerly Cassie Lang)
Iron Lad
Kate Bishop (Formerly Hawkingbird)

DROP

Ikaris (Eternal),
High Evolutionary (tuber)
Kulan Gath (He is a powerful sorcerer but that's it, he has no martial arts training like Strange or Asguardian abilities like Loki...so I think he should go)
Mockingbird (lame factor)
Supreme Intelligence (lame factor)
Patriot(out of the YA he's the one I like the least and I think there are better characters)
Gilgamesh
Spider Woman (Jessica Drew) ( I actually think Julia is a better choice)
Jessica Jones
Scourge 1
Falcon (better characters)
Living Lighting
Jessica Jones,
Swordsman I
Black Knight (Dane Whitman),

Potentials

Goliath
Radioactive Man
Thomas Shepard

 

[Steve_Rogers]

Ok, so...yeah.....I guess I'm gonna join in on this.

 

[JewishHobbit]

So just move on without me then

Nah, sorry to abandon you guys there... had company pop in. Also, one of them is my brother-in-law, known on here as AnnoyingSilence. He's been thinking about jumping in since last season, so he may be joining, but it's not definate yet.

And welcome Steve, good to have you. We'll be up and going here in a little while. For right now we're just getting characters ready. Feel free to throw in your 2 cents here and there.

 

[JewishHobbit]

My Vote

Keep
Bulldozer
Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
Black Panther
Bloodwraith
Captain America
Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh) note: she's now known as Lionheart
Carol Danvers Warbird? Binary? Current?
Crystal
Diablo
Firebird
Grim Reaper
Hank Pym Which Version do we want to use?
Hawkeye (Clint Barton) Rumors of there a differant Hawkeye, so let's be sure
Hercules
Ikaris (Eternal) Gaiman's doing an Eternals mini soon, so I don't mind him being in it
Iron Fist
Iron Man Do we want to specify which armor he has, or leave it open?
Jack of Hearts
Jessica Jones
Kang
Klaw
Living Lightning
Luke Cage
Mandarin
Mantis
Modok
Pagan
Piledriver
The Presence
Proctor
Protocide
Pulsar
Quicksilver Speed or Son of M Time travel?
Red Skull
Scarlet Witch (Pre-Disassembled) Note this!
Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
Scourge I
Sersi
She-Hulk
Spider Woman (Jessica Drew)
Starfox
Swordsman I
Taskmaster
Thena
Thunderball
Tigra
Triatholon
Ultron
Vision (Avengers)
War Machine
Wasp
Whirlwind
Wonderman
Wrecker
X-51

Young Avengers:

Hulkling
Wiccan
Patriot (With MHD (or whatever that drug is called)
Stature
Iron Lad


Drop
Attuma if not in a watered area, he's not much of a threat
Gilgamesh I think he was borderline too uber anyhow
High EvolutionaryToo Uber
Mockingbird Lame Factor
Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter) one to many Spider-Women
Supreme Intelligence I agree with Phaed
Vision (Young Avengers) Don't need both Visions
Kate Bishop I love her, but without experience she's not going to do much


Potentials

Goliath isn't it Black Goliath?
Radioactive Man I think he was on the Thunderbolts section
Thomas Shepard Great addition

Not Sures
Falcon Is he decent in a fight?
Kulan Gath Too Uber?
Lord Templar Was he too uber?
Silver Claw Lame Factor?
Quasar I don't know the character well.. but is he too uber?

 

[POWdER-man]

So just move on without me then

Nah, sorry to abandon you guys there... had company pop in. Also, one of them is my brother-in-law, known on here as AnnoyingSilence. He's been thinking about jumping in since last season, so he may be joining, but it's not definate yet.

And welcome Steve, good to have you. We'll be up and going here in a little while. For right now we're just getting characters ready. Feel free to throw in your 2 cents here and there.

Actually we did include you silly...



All three of us voted, and Wieg voted on a couple...

BTW, welcome Steve and good luck. feel free to add anything and to vote for who to stay in the tournnament for each section, and we should drop and what potentials should be added...

 

[Phaedrus45]

I noticed I'm the only one who took Scarlet Witch out of the list. Even though last season we said, "This is pre-disassembled," many voters still took into consideration that those powers would be at her disposal, that she had the potential. I just want to make sure we realize that some people will still be voting for Scarlet Witch to win based on the current status of SW, even though we tell them not to.

I do believe that Falcon is a threat, but he should be noted as "Falcon and Redwing." Just as Black Knight should probably include his horse and Arsenic would have Old Lace with her. With Redwing by his side, Falcon would have eyes in the air to know where his opponent might be.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Alright, if you think Falcon is a legit threat then I'm okay with him being in it. And I'm still not convinced we should take out Wanda. People may still want to vote for Jean thinking of her in New X-Men prior to us learning she had the Phoenix again... but she's still going to be in it. I say Wanda stays, just whoever faces her needs to stress that this is not the Uber Wanda version.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, Are we just going to leave anyone from the Guardians of the Galaxy out?

Of course, some of these characters might fall under a different category. People who I would like to see as potential:

Yellowjacket - This is the version of Pym I prefer. Definitely the most, anything goees type.
U.S. Agent - Maybe I'm blind. I don't see him on the list. Did we forget him last season?
Falcon And Redwing - Combo makes for a more powerful combination.
Ronin - Even though I hate Bendis' New Avengers, I did like the new character.
Ms. Marvel - I figure let's keep up with the times and make her the most recent version.
Jocasta - I loved Avengers during this era, and would be interested to see what people could do with her.
Killraven - Might be an interesting addition. He would be well trained at some locations.
Deathcry - She's probably under the X-Men category, but I loved her best when she was an Avenger.
Darkhawk - Probably under a different category, too.
Moon Knight - Same as above.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Ok, Are we just going to leave anyone from the Guardians of the Galaxy out?

Of course, some of these characters might fall under a different category. People who I would like to see as potential:

Yellowjacket - This is the version of Pym I prefer. Definitely the most, anything goees type.
U.S. Agent - Maybe I'm blind. I don't see him on the list. Did we forget him last season?
Falcon And Redwing - Combo makes for a more powerful combination.
Ronin - Even though I hate Bendis' New Avengers, I did like the new character.
Ms. Marvel - I figure let's keep up with the times and make her the most recent version.
Jocasta - I loved Avengers during this era, and would be interested to see what people could do with her.
Killraven - Might be an interesting addition. He would be well trained at some locations.
Deathcry - She's probably under the X-Men category, but I loved her best when she was an Avenger.
Darkhawk - Probably under a different category, too.
Moon Knight - Same as above.

I'm pretty sure Darkhawk, Moon Knight, and USAgent were in last season. Moon Knight would probably be under an "other" category while USAgent would have been under the "New Invaders" section. Darkhawk would have been where Runaways or Exselcior would have been.I don't know Jocasta, but I'm game, same with Killraven. Deathcry I think should have been under the Avengers lable (I don't remember her being in X-Men at all). Also, Carol Danvers currently has her Binary powers as of an issue or two ago of N.A. And I think Ronin (also known as Echo) would be a good addition.

 

[Phaedrus45]

To keep things moving along, here is the list of those who will move on. Again, I went with majority rules.

Avengers

Keep:


Attuma,
Bulldozer,
Black Knight (Dane Whitman),
Black Panther,
Bloodwraith,
Captain America,
Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh),
Carol Danvers,
Crystal,
Diablo,
Firebird,
Grim Reaper,
Hank Pym,
Hawkeye,
Hercules,
Iron Fist,
Iron Man,
Jack of Hearts,
Kang,
Klaw,
Living Lightning,
Lord Templar,
Luke Cage,
Mandarin,
Mantis,
Mockingbird,
Modok,
Pagan,
Piledriver,
The Presence,
Proctor,
Protocide,
Pulsar,
Quasar,
Quicksilver,
Red Skull,
Scarlet Witch,
Scott Lang,
Sersi,
She-Hulk,
Silver Claw,
Spider Woman (Jessica Drew),
Starfox,
Taskmaster,
Thena,
Thunderball,
Tigra,
Triatholon,
Ultron,
Vision,
War Machine,
Wasp,
Whirlwind,
Wonderman,
Wrecker,
X-51

Young Avengers:

Hulkling
Wiccan (Formerly Asgardian)
Patriot
Stature (Formerly Cassie Lang)
Iron Lad
Kate Bishop (Formerly Hawkingbird)

Removed:

Gilgamesh
High Evolutionary
Ikaris
Jessica Jones
Kulan Gath
Scourge I
Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter)
Supreme Intelligence
Swordsman I

Under Consideration:

Falcon & Redwing
Thomas Shepard (Young Avengers)
Black Goliath
U.S. Agent (To be moved out of now defunct New Invaders)
Ronin
Jocasta
Killraven

Since there were questions about Falcon, I just moved him to Consideration. Some characters that I mentioned I left out, like Darkhawk, because they will be under other areas.

 

[POWdER-man]

Man I was just working on that...oh well...

Here is the next list (a small but powerful one)

Cosmic Powers

Adam Warlock
Drax
Dr. Strange
Eros
Firelord
Gamora
Gladiator
Lilandra
Magus (Infinity Watch)
Maxam
Moondragon
Morg
Pip the Troll
Silver Surfer
Terrax
Wong

Automatic Drop
Thanos

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ah, the controversial list. Well, here's my take on it.

Keep:

Cosmic Powers

Adam Warlock
Drax
Dr. Strange
Firelord
Gamora
Gladiator
Magus (Infinity Watch)
Maxam
Moondragon
Morg
Silver Surfer
Terrax


Drop:

Eros - We already have him as Starfox on the Avengers list
Lilandra - This is Charles Woman, right? She is mainly someone dependant on her followers.
Magus - Debatable. I could go either way. but, it's just an evil Adam Warlock, and there was just too much debate last season on what his powers are/should be.
Pip The Troll - Without a gem, he's pretty useless
Wong - Nuff said

Now, I left Adam and Dr. Strange, simply for the fact I believe they are both beatable. Dr. Strange, especially, has been shown to be beaten numerous times, even with Prep time. But, I understand if we chose to leave either of them out.

 

[Phaedrus45]

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-marvel-cosmic-beings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_cosmic_beings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strange

The two cosmic beings pages are the same list, I believe. But, you can find some different information on characters. The Dr. Strange site has his villians list.

 

[POWdER-man]

Cosmic Powers

Adam Warlock
Drax
Firelord
Gamora
Gladiator
Maxam
Moondragon
Morg
Silver Surfer
Terrax

Drop
Dr Strange - Although he can be beatable in the sense, he can also be played to be nearly invincible. He could simply conjur a spell to deal with nearly anyone in the Marvel Universe and was only narrowly beaten in the Semi-Finals against a foe who was even immune to Mystical Powers.
Eros - We already have him as Starfox on the Avengers list (Agreed)
Lilandra - This is Charles Woman, right? She is mainly someone dependant on her followers. (not really she does have armour, and access to Shiar Technology and she has peak human abilities)
Magus - Debatable. I could go either way. but, it's just an evil Adam Warlock, and there was just too much debate last season on what his powers are/should be. (too much variation of power and open to many large debates)
Pip The Troll - Without a gem, he's pretty useless(agreed)
Wong - Nuff said(agreed)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Again, this is a tough category. These potentials are easily open for debate on if they are too powerful. But, with some characters that are in this, like Silver Surfer, they need someone capable of defeating them, also.

Potentials:

Baron Mordo - I think he was in it last season, just a different list
Nightmare - Defeatable, as we've seen numerous times
Clea - Was she in this last season?
Blackheart - Really interesting character
Captain Universe - But, might be too difficult to pick which version
Korvac - Big Avengers baddie from way back.
Airwalker - A herald of Galactus forgot last season
Tyrant

 

[Phaedrus45]

Dr Strange - Although he can be beatable in the sense, he can also be played to be nearly invincible. He could simply conjur a spell to deal with nearly anyone in the Marvel Universe and was only narrowly beaten in the Semi-Finals against a foe who was even immune to Mystical Powers.

I agree with you in a sense. To me, Dr. Strange and Forge are so similiar in this fashion. If Forge or Dr. Strange are so powerful with Prep Time, then why do they never show that potential in the Marvel Universe? Dr. Strange pretty much always has prep time in knowing who his opponent is going to be. But, he is never as powerful as he was made out to be last season. Heck, he contantly kept calling on various versions of the Defenders, knowing what the threat was, but unable to handle it himself.

To me, it's the "Scarlet Witch" scenario. We can say, "He isn't uber-powerful" as people make him out to be...but, will the votes reflect that.

 

[POWdER-man]

Again, this is a tough category. These potentials are easily open for debate on if they are too powerful. But, with some characters that are in this, like Silver Surfer, they need someone capable of defeating them, also.

Potentials:

Baron Mordo - I think he was in it last season, just a different list(I can only see Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker, Baron Zemo, although I seem to recall him in it)
Nightmare - Defeatable, as we've seen numerous times(good character)
Clea - Was she in this last season?(I don't think so)
Blackheart - Really interesting character(I don't know, it says he can not be beaten unless it's of the most powerful mystical powers)
Captain Universe - But, might be too difficult to pick which version(good character, we would have to specify next to name which version)
Korvac - Big Avengers baddie from way back.(with or without cosmic powers, because with he seems too uber since it took all the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy)
Airwalker - A herald of Galactus forgot last season(don't remember them)
Tyrant(umm would he be too uber, he did fight Galactus by himself)

My input

What about Cosmic Spider-Man? Too Uber or not?

 

[POWdER-man]

I agree with you in a sense. To me, Dr. Strange and Forge are so similiar in this fashion. If Forge or Dr. Strange are so powerful with Prep Time, then why do they never show that potential in the Marvel Universe? Dr. Strange pretty much always has prep time in knowing who his opponent is going to be. But, he is never as powerful as he was made out to be last season. Heck, he contantly kept calling on various versions of the Defenders, knowing what the threat was, but unable to handle it himself.

To me, it's the "Scarlet Witch" scenario. We can say, "He isn't uber-powerful" as people make him out to be...but, will the votes reflect that.

Maybe one of my duties as referee is not allow anyone mentioning a more powerful/different version in their debates or reasons to vote. Plus we will have to make sure we list what version they are for characters like that.

 

[Trigger]

My input

What about Cosmic Spider-Man? Too Uber or not?

I don't think he's too uber. All cosmic Spidey had was some super enhanced strength and stuff right?

 

[wiegeabo]

His spider-sense was much improved as well.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Personally, I think we're going to have so many new characters we want in this thing, most different versions should be excluded, just like deciding we'll go with one Spider-Woman. If we have Cosmic Spidey, why have the original? And, what's the contest without the original, "the one we all know," Spider-Man. (It's also why I wouldn't like to see The Other Spidey in this just yet.)

Now, I might have a different opinion with Scarlet Spider...

 

[JewishHobbit]

Keep
Adam Warlock Though I'd like a detailed description of his character and powers without the Soul Gem first
Drax Smart or dumb?
Dr. Strange I'm iffy on him still based on both of your arguments but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt provided the ref keeps an eye on him, making sure he isn't misused
Firelord
Gamora
Gladiator
Maxam
Moondragon
Silver Surfer
Terrax


Drop:
Eros
Lilandra
Magus
Pip The Troll
Wong
Morg - This dude took on ALL of Galactus' heralds. He's macho man

Potentials
Baron Mordo
Clea - Was she in this last season? I think she was
Airwalker - regular version or the later android?

Other
Korvac - I've looked over both of those bios and none actually mention what he can do. I'd need clarification before agreeing with him.

Captain Universe - Hmm, I don't think we should pick a specific version of the character if that version is already in the tournament (Spiderman, Hulk, Gladiator, Invisible Woman, etc). I'm thinking Rann from the Micronaughts had the power, and he's not in it, so that's possible. Other than that I'm not sure if we should use him.


Tyrant - This dude is above Thanos. Galactus is cautious to challenge him, and the only reason he died is because he was hit with the Ultimate Nullifier. Way Too Uber.
Nightmare - I don't know, I'm thinking he's too iffy of a character. He's not exactly one you can fight easily
Blackheart - After reading his wikapedia bio, he sounds way too uber.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Keep
Adam Warlock (Phaed's Comment - I think if he's in the tournament, it could only be with his gem. If that makes him too powerful, then we need to drop him.)
Drax Smart or dumb? (Phaed's Comment - Make it current, make him smart.)
Dr. Strange (Phaed's Comment - The more I think of it, the more I lean more towards the other side. I don't want to make Powder's job any more difficult, and it would be tough to have to keep deciding on an iffy character like Forge or Dr. Strange what weapons/spells are allowed and which aren't.)
Firelord
Gamora
Gladiator
Maxam
Moondragon
Silver Surfer
Terrax


Drop:
Eros
Lilandra
Magus
Pip The Troll
Wong
Morg - This dude took on ALL of Galactus' heralds. He's macho man

Potentials
Baron Mordo (Phaed's Comment - If we decide to boot Strange, we should probably boot Mordo.)
Clea - Was she in this last season? I think she was
Airwalker - (Phaed's Comment - I saw recent, which is Android, right?)

Other
Korvac - (This guy might be too uber. But, he also might have been enhanced. I'll see if I can find out more about him tomorrow.)
Captain Universe - I'm thinking Rann from the Micronaughts had the power, and he's not in it, so that's possible. Other than that I'm not sure if we should use him. (I was thinking about the same character to be Cap. Universe, too.)


Tyrant
Nightmare
Blackheart (Phaed's Comment - Each of these might not fit the competition. I see that they've been beat before...but, I agree it's probably best to elimate them.)

See above for my comments