Fantastic Four reborn! - - - Part 19

[Eddie]

X-Men films should absolutely be considered when we look at Fox's quality output, but not exclusively. Their Marvel track record in general is awful (5 good X-films to arguably 6 bad Marvel films in general). Throw in the other comic adaptations they've done (DBE, even the Garfield movies) and it gets really bad.

 

[Zarex]

I think after three movies (First Class, The Wolverine, and Days of Future Past), we can categorize X-Men as a upward swing. They made 2 bad movies (X3 and Wolverine), their good outweighs their bad.

Which makes FOX's treatment of Marvel's First Family even more infuriating. We know FOX can make quality comicbook films, so there is absolutely no excuse for putting out a low budget, grim and gritty, lo-fi, Chronicle sequel featuring containment suit clad disabled twenty-somethings.

Fans of the FF deserve far better, and should keep this in mind when deciding whether or not to support FOX's upcoming film slate of Marvel licensed film properties.

 

[Snikt]

X-Men films should absolutely be considered when we look at Fox's quality output, but not exclusively. Their Marvel track record in general is awful (5 good X-films to arguably 6 bad Marvel films in general). Throw in the other comic adaptations they've done (DBE, even the Garfield movies) and it gets really bad.

And let's not forget that Fox has had a regime change about three years ago now. Since then, they've been putting out better and high quality film.

I'm not going to argue they've put out crap films in the past (everyone knows they have). But let's not pretend Fox is the only Studio to put out crap films...every studio does.

I really enjoy Iron Man 2; but it seems not many people do. Thor 2 I like, but I consider it the worst Marvel Studios film (I think many would agree, but not everyone).

Point being, we shouldn't hold mistakes over someone's head from years earlier and say the still suck because of that.

People still can't stand Ben Affleck because of Daredevil and Gili...even after Gone Baby Gone, Argo, Gone Girl and The Town.

I just want good movies. I don't care who produces them: WB, Marvel, Fox, Sony or Universal.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Two years ago, Marvel had a better track record than Fox, but I said: "Hey, all of Marvel's films have been flawed so far. There's no reason that Fox, with the right director, right script and studio support couldn't finally make the film we've all been waiting for."

Since that time, we've seen clear evidence that we don't have the right director, right script and studio support.

That's the problem for me. I would be 100% behind Fox if they were treating the FF properly.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I just want good movies. I don't care who produces them: WB, Marvel, Fox, Sony or Universal.

That's kind of where I am. I think Marvel has produced several turds. IH, Thor 2, and Iron 2(most of 3).

I'm still hoping for directors to keep pushing the boundaries like TDK did. Scott Pilgrim was awesome but didn't bring in the audience. I still want the Edgar Wrights and Darren Aronofsky's to get shots at the mainstream stuff.

Transformers wore out its welcome after the first movie cause it was just visually interesting.

 

[Eddie]

I've come up with a new title for this film:

Chronicle 2: Fantastic Four 0

 

[Mike Murdock]

X-Men films should absolutely be considered when we look at Fox's quality output, but not exclusively. Their Marvel track record in general is awful (5 good X-films to arguably 6 bad Marvel films in general). Throw in the other comic adaptations they've done (DBE, even the Garfield movies) and it gets really bad.

I think what X-Men shows is this: with the right director and the right vision, they can make a good film. And I do think Fox has internalized this. Say what you will about Trank, it does seem that they picked someone with strong ideas and are giving him significant autonomy to do what he wants. This movie isn't likely to be a generic corporate crapfest. If it goes down, it'll go down in a blaze of glory.

All that being said, I'm certainly not convinced Trank is the right director and the right vision. I think Bryan Singer had a pretty good understanding of the X-Men (even though he changed quite a bit). Trank's Fantastic Four doesn't seem like it'll be the Fantastic Four. But we'll have to see. Secrecy leads to negativity, but it doesn't prove anything by itself. We still don't have any real information to go off of.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

All that being said, I'm certainly not convinced Trank is the right director and the right vision. I think Bryan Singer had a pretty good understanding of the X-Men (even though he changed quite a bit). Trank's Fantastic Four doesn't seem like it'll be the Fantastic Four. But we'll have to see. Secrecy leads to negativity, but it doesn't prove anything by itself. We still don't have any real information to go off of.

Agree with this.

Personally I've never liked Trank being chosen as the director from the beginning. It just felt like a flavor of the week gimmicky choice and given how he was able to spin a modest hit off of $12 million just screamed Fox wanting to go as low budget as possible with the FF. Neither Trank or Fox have ever done or said anything to assuage my fear that A) they are filming this only to keep the rights and B) they don't really understand the property.

It's like: "Let's just give it to this guy and let him his do his thing - whatever that is. See what happens. At least we won't have spent a lot of money on it."

 

[starscream22]

That's kind of where I am. I think Marvel has produced several t**ds. IH, Thor 2, and Iron 2(most of 3).

Pfft!

If those are Marvels worse then they're Golden Globe worthy compared to Catwoman, Elektra and Ghost Rider: SOV to name a few.

Moral of the story: You've got to really grasp at straws to make Marvel the bad guy in this scenario. If those movies where so bad then why are all the other studios still trying to copy them??? They're 9 out of 10 for me personally but regardless if it's 90% or your 70% It's still a far larger percentage than their competition. I'll give WB another shot but that's where it stops.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Pfft!

If those are Marvels worse then they're Golden Globe worthy compared to Catwoman, Elektra and Ghost Rider: SOV to name a few.

Moral of the story: You've got to really grasp at straws to make Marvel the bad guy in this scenario. If those movies where so bad then why are all the other studios still trying to copy them??? They're 9 out of 10 for me personally but regardless if it's 90% or your 70% It's still a far larger percentage than their competition. I'll give WB another shot but that's where it stops.

I don't know why people go out of their way to try and discredit Marvel Studios. I know they are not perfect but for a geek like myself I think that what they are doing is the coolest thing since sliced bread. Meanwhile, studios like Fox can give us utter dreck and they get a free pass because it's "different". I can't even believe the praise that DOFP has gotten from some people. It was a decent film but nothing great. And the whole idea was purely reactionary on Fox's part. They tried to make it their Avengers but it couldn't even sell more tickets stateside than Ratner's much reviled X-Men: The Last Stand. Everyone's trying to "be like Marvel" and that's OK. Meanwhile you've got folks trying to discredit Marvel for being themselves. Whatever.

As far as directors like Aronofsky and Wright, etc. if someone likes those directors then they should watch the films that those directors choose to make. Edgar Wright was never going to make a film that was going to fit into Marvel's big picture and they knew they had to give up the dream. Aronofsky came close with Wolverine but in the end walked away. Nolan did his thing with Batman but to a lot of people that's not even Batman. Personally I think he made one great Batman film. And I love Nolan.

If Trank wanted to do his "vision" he should have done something original. I don't give him any props for mangling something else that someone else created and that many fans love it for just the way it is. And from the sounds of it Fox is distancing themselves from this "vision". Read between the lines. Vaughn's comments of how Trank has "gone off" and done "his version" is subtly hanging him out to dry. Saying "hopefully people will like Josh Trank's vision" means that if this thing flops - well we let Josh do his thing and it didn't work out - but it's all on him.

 

[starscream22]

Point being, we shouldn't hold mistakes over someone's head from years earlier and say the still suck because of that.

I just want good movies. I don't care who produces them: WB, Marvel, Fox, Sony or Universal.

That would be noble sentiment if Fox and Sony weren't still ruining Marvel films. Fox has won the current battle for X-men. But I'm not going to let one franchise finally reaching North of $500M dictate my overall opinion of the way they handle Marvel films. Especially with the way they're handling this reboot.

I'd really like the see Fox give one of these Fox-men films a Chronicle budget and see who'd remain on board.

And since it's safe to say that the majority would prefer to see both F4 and Spidey back at Marvel sooner rather than later, I fail to see the point of this comment.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

i'd really like the see fox give one of these fox-men films a chronicle budget and see who'd remain on board.

lol!

 

[starscream22]

What concerns me most is all the emphasis on Trank's "vision": how they "back" his "vision", and how they "hope" the audience can like his "vision". It's as if Trank produced a rather controversial reimagining of FF not unlike Ang Lee's Hulk or Darren Aronofsky's Wolverine, and are just anticipating the audience turning on it and they're doubling down on Trank in support. The fact that it's being preceded by two more mainstream friendly superhero blockbusters which it'll inevitably draw comparisons too doesn't help much either. It might be why there's no marketing yet, as Fox maybe at a loss as to how to do it.

It also sounds like a convenient out for if or when the audience sours on it: "you don't like it because you're can't appreciate my vision".

Yeah, the "PRODUCER" of the film should not be talking like this. They're putting it all on Trank but what about Kinberg?

Didn't he play a very big part in creating this film as well?

 

[Eddie]

Yeah, the "PRODUCER" of the film should not be talking like this. They're putting it all on Trank but what about Kinberg?

Didn't he play a very big part in creating this film as well?

He played a very big part in rewriting it on set after the script going in was deemed unusable.

 

[starscream22]

He played a very big part in rewriting it on set after the script going in was deemed unusable.

Exactly so he's likely to get a screenwriter and producer credit for this film as well, so dismissing it as "Trank's take" is very telling.

It's all hilarious because both Kinberg and Vaughn was always a big part of the defense for this reboot yet Kinberg barely talks about it and Vaughn's comments about it felt more like he was distancing himself from it.

 

[Endeavor]

I think after three movies (First Class, The Wolverine, and Days of Future Past), we can categorize X-Men as a upward swing. They made 2 bad movies (X3 and Wolverine), their good outweighs their bad.

I mean, should Iron Man 2 or 3 be held against Marvel?

First Class wasn't exactly a gushing financial success, and though there is a vocal fanbase that enjoyed it, for me it was just meh.
I was just glad that it wasn't TLS or Origins bad. In my opinion the fact that what came before it was so horrendously bad, makes it look good by comparison. But even then it's the movie that's performed the poorest at the BO.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

Mark Millar chimes in:

[YT]4CW4MfEVg3w[/YT]

Once again - Chronicle was great, this looks good.

He makes a point about brand vs. creators - that the brand can suffer without good creators.

I still think going the Ultimate FF route - something that has proven to be the lesser version of the Fantastic Four - is what will kill this project, among other things.

 

[Dark Raven]

Mark Millar chimes in:

[YT]4CW4MfEVg3w[/YT]

Once again - Chronicle was great, this looks good.

He makes a point about brand vs. creators - that the brand can suffer without good creators.

I still think going the Ultimate FF route - something that has proven to be the lesser version of the Fantastic Four - is what will kill this project, among other things.

Your video doesn't work. You haven't entered the code properly. It's fixed now.

 

[Flint Marko]

How about this for reading too much into it: not only does he say, "it's good" (underwhelming praise) but he looks away from the camera, implying that he is not exactly being truthful. He then spends the rest of the video talking about "brands" or whatever, and then in the end sheepishly goes, "so I feel good about it, it'll be interesting" while once again not looking at the camera.
Maybe I'm looking to heavily into it, but once again, not glowing praise.

I think after three movies (First Class, The Wolverine, and Days of Future Past), we can categorize X-Men as a upward swing. They made 2 bad movies (X3 and Wolverine), their good outweighs their bad.

I mean, should Iron Man 2 or 3 be held against Marvel?

Are you kidding? X3 and XMOW aren't even in the same league as Iron man 2 & 3, there's no comparison.

 

[Dark Raven]

How about this for reading too much into it: not only does he say, "it's good" (underwhelming praise) but he looks away from the camera, implying that he is not exactly being truthful. He then spends the rest of the video talking about "brands" or whatever, and then in the end sheepishly goes, "so I feel good about it, it'll be interesting" while once again not looking at the camera.
Maybe I'm looking to heavily into it, but once again, not glowing praise.

Well, it's not so much him looking away from the camera as his eyes looking to the right frequently. In the science of micro expressions, when someone unconsciously looks to their left, they are accessing memories and are usually considered to be recalling something and are therefore thought to be telling the truth. When a person looks to their right, they are considered to be accessing their creative/imaginative part of their brain and making things up, and are thought to be lying. People can try that for themselves when recalling a memory or trying to make up a story on the spot.

Millar keeps looking to his right whenever he's asked a question, whether it's an opinion or what he thought about something. You'd think, at least for when talking about Chronicle or parts which were actual memories, he'd look to his left to recall that information. He still looks to his right. And certainly when he's asked what he thinks about FFINO he definitely looks to his right.

 

[Flint Marko]

Well, it's not so much him looking away from the camera as his eyes looking to the right frequently. In the science of micro expressions, when someone unconsciously looks to their left, they are accessing memories and are usually considered to be recalling something and are therefore thought to be telling the truth. When a person looks to their right, they are considered to be accessing their creative/imaginative part of their brain and making things up, and are thought to be lying. People can try that for themselves when recalling a memory or trying to make up a story on the spot.

Millar keeps looking to his right whenever he's asked a question, whether it's an opinion or what he thought about something. You'd think, at least for when talking about Chronicle or parts which were actual memories, he'd look to his left to recall that information. He still looks to his right. And certainly when he's asked what he thinks about FFINO he definitely looks to his right.

That's very interesting, I did not know that!
Either way, whether or not our observations hold any merit, it is interesting how relatively tempered their praise is. It's almost like they don't want to talk about it.

 

[Orba]

At a time when comic book movies are bigger than they have ever been before, and are regularly among the best selling films each year, you would really expect more enthusiasm by Fox towards this franchise.

 

[starscream22]

Mark Millar chimes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CW4MfEVg3w

Once again - Chronicle was great, this looks good.

He makes a point about brand vs. creators - that the brand can suffer without good creators.

I still think going the Ultimate FF route - something that has proven to be the lesser version of the Fantastic Four - is what will kill this project, among other things.

................Who exactly does he "consult" with these days?

 

[Flint Marko]

................Who exactly does he "consult" with these days?

That's a great question lol, it sounds like he just gets sent scripts and gives his approval or not.
Him saying he liked Chronicle more than any of the other superhero movies in 2012 is also a big red flag

 

[Orba]

That's a great question lol, it sounds like he just gets sent scripts and gives his approval or not.
Him saying he liked Chronicle more than any of the other superhero movies in 2012 is also a big red flag

The year The Avengers came out?