Fantastic Four reborn! - - - Part 19

[Eddie]

So if Garfield says the new Spiderman script is "amazing" that makes it so?

I'm not trying to hype anyone up. I'm hype cause I like Trank and am okay with seeing something "good" instead of the mediocre Story FF as the only depiction of the FF.

You can improve on Good.

I won't hold my breath on TMNT 2 becoming the greatest Turtle movie.

Somehow I don't think he'll be reading the next Spider-Man script...

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Simon Kinberg wrote the film. Why the hell would he admit it's a mess?.

I remember a few weeks ago when the Trank house rumors started how since no one came out and denied it, it must be true, said many people on here.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Somehow I don't think he'll be reading the next Spider-Man script...

LOL!!!t:t:t:

 

[Eddie]

I remember a few weeks ago when the Trank house rumors started how since no one came out and denied it, it must be true, said many people on here.

And it's still pretty weird that they haven't denied it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

From Vaughn's comments it appears as though we're not just talking about a found footage style, though I would suggest this is a bad choice for depicting Marvel's First Family. We're hearing grim, gritty, lo fi, realistic - everything except "fantastic".

The mistake is blaming the tone and attempts at humor on the failure of the first films. Then deciding a radical reimagination was required to the point that an FF film becomes FFINO.

I personally wouldn't make a FF this way, but that doesn't make it "wrong" or well, a bad film. Just look at Kubrick's "The Shining". Great film, horrible adaptation.

 

[Flint Marko]

So if Garfield says the new Spiderman script is "amazing" that makes it so?

I'm not trying to hype anyone up. I'm hype cause I like Trank and am okay with seeing something "good" instead of the mediocre Story FF as the only depiction of the FF.

You can improve on Good.

I won't hold my breath on TMNT 2 becoming the greatest Turtle movie.

If Garfield didn't say the script was amazing, it'd be showing early on that there are problems and I would've been worried.
It is their job to get people pumped for this, and you do that by saying "Yeah, it's good". Gonna take more than that, especially with the host of problems this film is reportedly under.
Where there's smoke there's fire. I don't look at all of the continual persistent rumors that say this thing is a mess and try to spin it like a good thing, there's another thread for that.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

If Garfield didn't say the script was amazing, it'd be showing early on that there are problems and I would've been worried.
It is their job to get people pumped for this, and you do that by saying "Yeah, it's good". Gonna take more than that, especially with the host of problems this film is reportedly under.
Where there's smoke there's fire. I don't look at all of the continual persistent rumors that say this thing is a mess and try to spin it like a good thing, there's another thread for that.

MBJ talked about how he loved Trank's vision and the putting on the containment suits.

Kebbel's Domaschev revelation came cause he was excited to talk about it.

How fans reacted to both of them is something else entirely. Agreed?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

MBJ talked about how he loved Trank's vision and the putting on the containment suits.

Kebbel's Domaschev revelation came cause he was excited to talk about it.

How fans reacted to both of them is something else entirely. Agreed?

Of course fan did. They have actually read the FF. They have heard about how much a disaster this film is. They know why this film is being made.

If you heard the new Bond film's lead actor was talking about how excited they were about the new Bond's alien back story and fighting beings from the future. You don't think people who know Bond wouldn't react badly?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Of course fan did. They have actually read the FF. They have heard about how much a disaster this film is. They know why this film is being made.

If you heard the new Bond film's lead actor was talking about how excited they were about the new Bond's alien back story and fighting beings from the future. You don't think people who know Bond wouldn't react badly?

Did I say fans should be excited about a non-ruler Doom?

I'm not.

But still like the amount of effort Kebbel put into figuring out Doom's personality and voice. I can acknowledge the dude isn't just getting a paycheck. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Did I say fans should be excited about a non-ruler Doom?

I'm not.

But still like the amount of effort Kebbel put into figuring out Doom's personality and voice. I can acknowledge the dude isn't just getting a paycheck. They aren't mutually exclusive.

And actors BS all the time. It is why they are actors.

 

[Dark Raven]

Did I say fans should be excited about a non-ruler Doom?

I'm not.

But still like the amount of effort Kebbel put into figuring out Doom's personality and voice. I can acknowledge the dude isn't just getting a paycheck. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Why are you not excited about blogger Doom? You should be since it's all a gritty and more realistic take on the FF based on Trank's vision.

Doom as a dictator is old hat. Blogging on teh interwebs is where it's at.

 

[Flint Marko]

MBJ talked about how he loved Trank's vision and the putting on the containment suits.

Kebbel's Domaschev revelation came cause he was excited to talk about it.

How fans reacted to both of them is something else entirely. Agreed?

Funny how the other people behind the camera don't speak with such high praise... That is what is unusual.
Also all of that was before this thing went downhill.
Look, my honest thoughts? What I personally expect? This is going to be 70% "Chronicle 2", 25% "Ultimate FF", and 5% "WTF were you thinking, an anti-social blogger?" - a weird, head-scratching combination that clearly has Fox execs worried about how to get people interested. This is the FF movie no one was asking for, and they probably know that, so they are worried about how to market this. I'd be inclined to think this would actually turn out to be a good film if they showed any sort of confidence, or had just one production still out, or concept art, or hell, even a freaking logo or a title card. But no, not a single bit of evidence to let the public at large know this exists.
And once this comes out? I could possibly see some people liking it. It's in the cards. But I can assure you none of them will be FF fans.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Why are you not excited about blogger Doom? You should be since it's all a gritty and more realistic take on the FF based on Trank's vision.

Doom as a dictator is old hat. Blogging on teh interwebs is where it's at.

Where you excited at the thought of Jesse " I have one speaking voice" Eisenberg playing Lex Luthor?

That's not my Lex Luthor. You can stick him inside LexCorp with all the tech/bald head they want.

I still want to see BvS.

Being a blogger is stupid. That still doesn't tell me his motivations for hating the FF.That interest me more.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Funny how the other people behind the camera don't speak with such high praise... That is what is unusual.
Also all of that was before this thing went downhill.
Look, my honest thoughts? What I personally expect? This is going to be 70% "Chronicle 2", 25% "Ultimate FF", and 5% "WTF were you thinking, an anti-social blogger?" - a weird, head-scratching combination that clearly has Fox execs worried about how to get people interested. This is the FF movie no one was asking for, and they probably know that, so they are worried about how to market this. I'd be inclined to think this would actually turn out to be a good film if they showed any sort of confidence, or had just one production still out, or concept art, or hell, even a freaking logo or a title card. But no, not a single bit of evidence to let the public at large know this exists.
And once this comes out? I could possibly see some people liking it. It's in the cards. But I can assure you none of them will be FF fans.

I said something similar yesterday about Vaughn's comments. He wouldn't have done it this way but that doesn't mean it isn't good. It just appeals to the same people who like Chronicle. That maybe won't get you 300 million and that's what Fox cares about.

Executives worried about marketing something sunk many movies. John Carter (of Mars) anyone?

 

[Flint Marko]

It just appeals to the same people who like Chronicle. That maybe won't get you 300 million and that's what Fox cares about.

Well that's basically the problem. I liked Chronicle a lot actually, but that doesn't mean I want the FF handled the same way, and apparently the majority of the fanbase agrees with me.
Boom, that's alienating a good piece of your core audience right out of the gate. Fox should be worried about that.
Does it mean it won't be a good movie? Not necessarily, but Fox's complete radio silence doesn't show confidence of any kind, which makes me think that they've got a stinker on their hands.

 

[The Guard]

People keep bringing up actors praising scripts for projects that turn out to be disappointing.

I don't really care much one way or the other when actors say something vague about a script's quality like "It's great", etc. Not because I don't believe that they do think its great...but because a lot of actors wouldn't know a great script from a lousy one in the first place. There's a reason that most actors are actors, and not writers.

A lot of actors wouldn't necessarily recognize the elements of a subpar script VS a good one. I've worked with plenty of them. I pay more attention when actors can intelligently discuss elements of a project VS just praising it or talking about generic qualities of it.

 

[Dark Raven]

I said something similar yesterday about Vaughn's comments. He wouldn't have done it this way but that doesn't mean it isn't good. It just appeals to the same people who like Chronicle. That maybe won't get you 300 million and that's what Fox cares about.

Executives worried about marketing something sunk many movies. John Carter (of Mars) anyone?

But who is it going to appeal to now if Fox found it too much like Chronicle 2 and want to make it less so with these reshoots? Vaughn said it would hopefully appeal to the people who like Chronicle but if they're alienating that audience now then there will be no one left. The Chronicle crowd they were targeting aren't going to be interested.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But who is it going to appeal to now if Fox found it too much like Chronicle 2 and want to make it less so with these reshoots? Vaughn said it would hopefully appeal to the people who like Chronicle but if they're alienating that audience now then there will be no one left. The Chronicle crowd they were targeting aren't going to be interested.

We do not know that is the case at all.

And honestly, they are not targeting either crowd. They are targeting the mass market, which is worth a lot more money.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Well that's basically the problem. I liked Chronicle a lot actually, but that doesn't mean I want the FF handled the same way, and apparently the majority of the fanbase agrees with me.
Boom, that's alienating a good piece of your core audience right out of the gate. Fox should be worried about that.

The core audience for Transformers hate Bay's Transformers but the GA still eats it up.

For all the months of hand wringing and back and forth. We still don't matter much. That's the main reason I still love arguing with you guys. I'm just an idiot arguing semantics that don't matter much in the whole.

When the characters started going more and more mainstream, what you and I think constitutes a FF movie becomes less and less. Remember the Hal vs John debate? John is the mainstream GL to most teens/young adults, and it isn't based on the source material.

Uncanny/Extreme/Ultimate(insert your fav) X-men will never be on screen. Singer's version is what is attracting audiences for now. Then someone else will attempt it.

Does it mean it won't be a good movie? Not necessarily, but Fox's complete radio silence doesn't show confidence of any kind, which makes me think that they've got a stinker on their hands.

The radio silence is bad. Putting out something you waffle back and forth about ala John Carter or mis-market ala Girl with Dragon Tattoo is bad.

The only upside is that no one knows the Fantastic Four is coming. Doing nothing means they haven't made a mistake with the larger audience either is probably their thinking.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The core audience for Transformers hate Bay's Transformers but the GA still eats it up.

For all the months of hand wringing and back and forth. We still don't matter much. That's the main reason I still love arguing with you guys. I'm just an idiot arguing semantics that don't matter much in the whole.

When the characters started going more and more mainstream, what you and I think constitutes a FF movie becomes less and less. Remember the Hal vs John debate? John is the mainstream GL to most teens/young adults, and it isn't based on the source material.

Uncanny/Extreme/Ultimate(insert your fav) X-men will never be on screen. Singer's version is what is attracting audiences for now. Then someone else will attempt it.




The radio silence is bad. Putting out something you waffle back and forth about ala John Carter or mis-market ala Girl with Dragon Tattoo is bad.

The only upside is that no one knows the Fantastic Four is coming. Doing nothing means they haven't made a mistake with the larger audience either is probably their thinking.

Not really. Basically, the last X-Men film feasted on the expanded WW market, which is inflating WW grosses. Same for Transformers and Spider-Man. The domestic numbers showed clear fatigue or simply disinterest.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Not really. Basically, the last X-Men film feasted on the expanded WW market, which is inflating WW grosses. Same for Transformers and Spider-Man. The domestic numbers showed clear fatigue or simply disinterest.

I can't say that's untrue.

More people in America saw the finale of M.A.S.H than Lost but more people around the world saw the Lost finale though.

The world market is different. America still has weight obviously, but its not like Fox isn't releasing X-men in Switzerland cause they don't care about their money.

IPs are becoming brands and brands have different standards I guess is what I'm saying. Syndication used to be 100 eps now it's like 80 cause of streaming rights around the world ala Big Bang Theory.

 

[Zant]

Not really. Basically, the last X-Men film feasted on the expanded WW market, which is inflating WW grosses. Same for Transformers and Spider-Man. The domestic numbers showed clear fatigue or simply disinterest.

Expanded WW market has also inflated grosses for the MCU, recent Batman films, and will do so for future Star wars, Marvel and DC comics films.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Expanded WW market has also inflated grosses for the MCU, recent Batman films, and will do so for future Star wars, Marvel and DC comics films.

The last two Batman movies both did over $400m domestic. TDK did over $500m. GotG did $320m domestic. The Avengers did over $600m domestically. Anything over $250m domestically is very good, anything over $300m is great, and anything over $400m is straight up legand status. Math is not hard.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I can't say that's untrue.

More people in America saw the finale of M.A.S.H than Lost but more people around the world saw the Lost finale though.

The world market is different. America still has weight obviously, but its not like Fox isn't releasing X-men in Switzerland cause they don't care about their money.

IPs are becoming brands and brands have different standards I guess is what I'm saying. Syndication used to be 100 eps now it's like 80 cause of streaming rights around the world ala Big Bang Theory.

You are missing the point. Forget that they get less money from foreign box office. In the case of China, a lot less. A lower brand in the States is not healthy for any IP looking to make money on merch and the like. There is a reason there is a crisis at Sony over Spider-Man even though it make $700m WW.

You are seeing this a lot with films that look like they have healthy WW totals, but aren't getting sequels because they aren't actually make money, or at least as much as they need to for the investors to invest.

 

[Zant]

The last two Batman movies both did over $400m domestic. TDK did over $500m. GotG did $320m domestic. The Avengers did over $600m domestically. Anything over $250m domestically is very good, anything over $300m is great, and anything over $400m is straight up legand status. Math is not hard.

So if 250 mil domestic is your benchmark, then Cap 2 and Thor 2 did not do so well despite the Avengers boost. Both movies are still getting sequels along with Xmen, Transformers and yes even Spiderman. So the strong worldwide numbers must have helped.