From SHH with Love: The Relationship Thread

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]391789[/split]

 

[Anita18]

Just because someone's an Ivy League grad doesn't mean that they're automatically better for you. In India, I know it's hard because your worth is often determined by your education, but it really doesn't have to be that way. My parents came from a place where that was true (Taiwan), and they're a lot happier here in America where your schooling when you were a kid doesn't screw you for life.

My ex-bf is at Stanford for an MBA, and got a big fat inheritance from his grandmother. Doesn't bother me that I've "downgraded" to a guy with only a BS and no rich grandparents, because my current is much better for me.

If you don't want your past shortcomings to haunt you forever, you have to purge the concept of educational identity out of your head.

Also, what Erz said. When my fiancé and I started dating, I figured he liked me better than I liked him, but I realized and acknowledged what he was doing for me, his support, and warmed up to him. I'm not sure if she's open-minded enough to let you in, though. She may continue to think of this whole thing as a mistake or just something to try.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

So what are we calling this one? A Fistful of Boobs? A Fistful of Relationships?

 

[Erzengel]

Nave, sometimes you have the round peg with the square hole.

You tried and it might not work out, but it sounds like it's not because of you.

Just chalk this up to a learning experience and hopefully the next girl will be more compatible to you.

 

[Anita18]

I'd also like to bring something in from the last thread:

One of her essays from last week, she was comparing her confusion to furniture. Don't laugh. It's not funny. "Why fill in an entire room with furniture that you are not satisfied with years from now, isn't it better to just live in an empty room? But do I want to live in an empty room forever? I'm just 21. Is it so wrong for me to have some doubts?"

It's not wrong to have doubts, but to prefer living in an empty room instead of filling it with something, even a damn bed or a desk or a silly tchotchke that makes you laugh, means that she's LOOKING for faults. Overanalyzing and having extremely high expectations. And if something isn't 100% perfect, she's going to have second thoughts. I've known people like this, and they are never happy with what they have. Ever. It's a drag to be around them, because they're complaining all the time.

So in her mind, whatever she's doing at 21 is likely just gonna be thrown away in a few years. Including you. It's not serious, it's just temporary and when she's finally come across something 100% perfect (timing and everything), that's when she's going to start taking it seriously. Because it's gonna be real and not something she feels like she threw together when she was young and stupid.

I don't think her parents are helping, but nothing you've written about her says that she necessarily disagrees with what they have to say. Cause even when I was lukewarm about my now-fiance, I was willing to take it seriously and see where things went, instead of running the "what ifs" in my head over and over again and keeping him at a distance.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Are we not re-naming this? There's a Dollars trilogy to consider here.

 

[Erzengel]

We are on to Bond now. We technically didn't do ALL of the Potter movies (Those names tend to just be kinda repetitious) and just did one encompassing one.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Should've been called "Dr. No means No".

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Just because someone's an Ivy League grad doesn't mean that they're automatically better for you. In India, I know it's hard because your worth is often determined by your education, but it really doesn't have to be that way. My parents came from a place where that was true (Taiwan), and they're a lot happier here in America where your schooling when you were a kid doesn't screw you for life.

My ex-bf is at Stanford for an MBA, and got a big fat inheritance from his grandmother. Doesn't bother me that I've "downgraded" to a guy with only a BS and no rich grandparents, because my current is much better for me.

If you don't want your past shortcomings to haunt you forever, you have to purge the concept of educational identity out of your head.

Also, what Erz said. When my fiancé and I started dating, I figured he liked me better than I liked him, but I realized and acknowledged what he was doing for me, his support, and warmed up to him. I'm not sure if she's open-minded enough to let you in, though. She may continue to think of this whole thing as a mistake or just something to try.

Y'know maybe you should talk to her parents and her too. I think it could actually help me out!

But thanks. That's definitely what I hope she learns, even if not right away but maybe some day. I'm not too sure about her folks anymore, I mean I have had bad clingy helicopter parents myself since I was an only child but her folks are downright overdoing it. I get it when they didn't trust that she was feeling more than an infatuation (though at the rate of how badly they reacted, I don't think they really believe that) -- her father threatens her with disowning her and her finances, gets physical, and I think she mentioned how he fainted ; her mom says how "if your father dies now it'll be your fault" outright to her face; when she tries to talk about me they dismiss everything I do as "that's what everyone does" and when she mentions my credentials: "He's lying. He's just lying. You're too stupid to realise that."

And y'know what? I actually understand where they came from regarding the whole "has to be rich, has to be an Ivy Leaguer" and even for Bangladesh the whole infatuation with white-people (trust me. Years of colonised thinking takes its toll on the capitalist/materialist culture and it's still very apparent over here). But when they're pulling stunts like "you can't lock your door anymore; you can't talk more than 5 minutes on the phone; I'm checking your text messages; I want that phone off at 11PM" that's pushing it, and this final bit about the "don't go dancing because that's not what decent girls do" is just... the limit.

My folks are paranoid. And yet I feel like I'm the one who's going out of his comfort zone every single day. And I'm cool with that. I like that. Bravery isn't doing **** and not being afraid, it's doing things despite being scared out of your wits. That's happening with me. And she's not willing to do that. She wants space instead that's fine. That's what she will get. She has to be open-minded for this to work at all. Her birthday is next week, I hope she makes up her mind by then. I understand that we went too far too fast and I'm giving her the space and the time. I've already began to not take things at face value anymore, that says a lot about where this whole trust thing is going. But at the end of the day, yes. I do miss her. At the end of the day I'm still thinking about her. I am still in love with her -- what's making me think this way is the very idea that maybe she doesn't love me back. Not that I won't stick around or wait or anything. I would. But I wouldn't, cannot, love someone who doesn't love me back. I ruled that one out a long time ago (and I think I even wrote about it here).

Well it certainly feels a long time ago.

It took a long time, though, for me to realise that she only wants me to be impatient when we're being intimate, not when we're in public. *shrugs*

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Should've been called "Dr. No means No".

This. Would've actually been relatable.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

It's not wrong to have doubts, but to prefer living in an empty room instead of filling it with something, even a damn bed or a desk or a silly tchotchke that makes you laugh, means that she's LOOKING for faults. Overanalyzing and having extremely high expectations. And if something isn't 100% perfect, she's going to have second thoughts. I've known people like this, and they are never happy with what they have. Ever. It's a drag to be around them, because they're complaining all the time.

"Okay now you're just FISHING for trouble" -- that's what her best friend told her.

Y'know I think I've been one of those people -- never happy, at least with himself, always complaining, exhausting people around him. Yeah pretty much. But I think I've been giving her a fair amount of chance yes? Everything about her has been IMPERFECT and I'm complying because well, yeah I don't mind it all that much because she herself makes up for it. She really does. For me at least.

But well I'll really have to draw a line if she's just so damn skeptical and just so unsure about herself -- it means she doesn't love me enough and that's something I won't comply to. I won't keep loving someone when that isn't reciprocated. It stopped being cute.

So in her mind, whatever she's doing at 21 is likely just gonna be thrown away in a few years. Including you. It's not serious, it's just temporary and when she's finally come across something 100% perfect (timing and everything), that's when she's going to start taking it seriously. Because it's gonna be real and not something she feels like she threw together when she was young and stupid.

So... people like that do happen. That's fine. I'm fine with it. She isn't ready. She isn't there. She needs it to be perfect and if I'm not then no matter how much I love her and care for her and do whatever I need to for her, that wouldn't be enough. Well sure then. Bad timing. She wouldn't be ready now. And that's fine. It really is. I think.

I don't think her parents are helping, but nothing you've written about her says that she necessarily disagrees with what they have to say. Cause even when I was lukewarm about my now-fiance, I was willing to take it seriously and see where things went, instead of running the "what ifs" in my head over and over again and keeping him at a distance.

She is keeping me at a distance Anita. She's doing that. She's worrying about things that haven't happened yet. She wasn't doing that until her folks came along. She doesn't disagree with them but when she's with me she doesn't disagree with me either -- when she's with me all of her doubt just flat-out vanishes! That's what makes this so frustrating it's like I'm JUST THERE and it feels like a tug-of-war but it ISN'T -- it's HER. She has to decide. And I have to trust her enough to make the right decision for herself.

I trust her. I... have to.

Because she's ruling me out. And when I try to get close she gets defensive. She's going to start being all formal right now and that's just painful because I'm sorry that whole "oh this is fun we're dating" phase just got lost in all this. In a few days I'll stop caring and by then she and everyone else will go "oh so if he stopped caring then it was never meant to be" but again, I would never stop if she keeps caring back. It has to reciprocated. Otherwise it really was an infatuation.

...god that sucked to write.

 

[Anita18]

Y'know maybe you should talk to her parents and her too. I think it could actually help me out!

I'm not sure if that would help. Even my mom (who's the biggest optimist ever) is like, "Forget it!" when it comes to those kinds of people. Not only do they seem to have high standards, they seem to have high double standards, because their own child is not at an Ivy League and they're cool with it! There's really no way to make them realize what they're doing.

I mean, even anti-gay folks can change their tune if their child is gay, like Dick Cheney. Or a close friend or relative. But if it's "it's fine if my child is gay but it's not okay for anybody else!" that's just...there's no getting past that.

But thanks. That's definitely what I hope she learns, even if not right away but maybe some day. I'm not too sure about her folks anymore, I mean I have had bad clingy helicopter parents myself since I was an only child but her folks are downright overdoing it. I get it when they didn't trust that she was feeling more than an infatuation (though at the rate of how badly they reacted, I don't think they really believe that) -- her father threatens her with disowning her and her finances, gets physical, and I think she mentioned how he fainted ; her mom says how "if your father dies now it'll be your fault" outright to her face; when she tries to talk about me they dismiss everything I do as "that's what everyone does" and when she mentions my credentials: "He's lying. He's just lying. You're too stupid to realise that."

And y'know what? I actually understand where they came from regarding the whole "has to be rich, has to be an Ivy Leaguer" and even for Bangladesh the whole infatuation with white-people (trust me. Years of colonised thinking takes its toll on the capitalist/materialist culture and it's still very apparent over here). But when they're pulling stunts like "you can't lock your door anymore; you can't talk more than 5 minutes on the phone; I'm checking your text messages; I want that phone off at 11PM" that's pushing it, and this final bit about the "don't go dancing because that's not what decent girls do" is just... the limit.

That's not being helicopter. That's downright emotionally abusive. I hope she realizes that too, in time.

My father and my fiance's mother are paranoid. (I think there's one in every family.) But they don't tell us we're literally killing them.

So... people like that do happen. That's fine. I'm fine with it. She isn't ready. She isn't there. She needs it to be perfect and if I'm not then no matter how much I love her and care for her and do whatever I need to for her, that wouldn't be enough. Well sure then. Bad timing. She wouldn't be ready now. And that's fine. It really is. I think.

It really can come down to timing. I knew a girl in college who dated around like nobody's business. She'd date a guy for a month, find something imperfect about him, then dump him and move on to the next guy. (She could keep doing this despite our extremely small student body, because she was gorgeous.) She was NEVER happy.

And then a few years after we graduated, she got married. Either she grew up or she actually did meet someone that perfect, but since they're still married a few years later, I'm guessing she grew up and the right guy came along at the right time.

Because she's ruling me out. And when I try to get close she gets defensive. She's going to start being all formal right now and that's just painful because I'm sorry that whole "oh this is fun we're dating" phase just got lost in all this. In a few days I'll stop caring and by then she and everyone else will go "oh so if he stopped caring then it was never meant to be" but again, I would never stop if she keeps caring back. It has to reciprocated. Otherwise it really was an infatuation.

...god that sucked to write.

It IS an infatuation right now, Nave. Like Erz said, she's not going to bat for you. Love is not simply a need, love is a security blanket. You have to know that this other person is always going to be there, and that's a two-way street. You can't truly love her in the context of a relationship if she doesn't love you back. I mean, it can really, REALLY feel that way, but you don't want an unreciprocated love. It's not the kind of love you feel in a really secure relationship.

I was really infatuated with my first bf. I needed him, but that manifested in extreme jealousy because of my low self-esteem. I hated it. I've never been nearly as infatuated with my fiance, filled with needing (I chalk that up to growing up and being somewhat cynical now ), but what's there instead is a security that I've never felt before (well, maybe except with my parents), one that almost brings me to tears to think about. That unconditional love you want to give her, but she's not giving you.

 

[Godzilla2000]

My nephew told me something I found pretty disturbing last night that has me thinking about the anti-marriage views that some people have and my assessment of what he'd said. He basically said that he didn't want to get married because marriage is broken and that the other person will always use you for something. To me that is a very cynical view of him to have and he's going to be 14 years old soon. I'd told him the reason why marriages don't work is because people don't try to make it work.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I'm not sure if that would help. Even my mom (who's the biggest optimist ever) is like, "Forget it!" when it comes to those kinds of people. Not only do they seem to have high standards, they seem to have high double standards, because their own child is not at an Ivy League and they're cool with it! There's really no way to make them realize what they're doing.

I mean, even anti-gay folks can change their tune if their child is gay, like Dick Cheney. Or a close friend or relative. But if it's "it's fine if my child is gay but it's not okay for anybody else!" that's just...there's no getting past that.

Doesn't help my case at all does it? Your mom is right though, I mean good god I do have standards myself we all do, but I'd like to think that the emotional security-thing alone would suffice right? This entire thing just seems to confirm that cynical stance I used to take before -- that one should never, ever, be emotionally dependent on others, that you yourself come first no matter what and... well I just failed doing that with this girl... twice now.

That's not being helicopter. That's downright emotionally abusive. I hope she realizes that too, in time.

My father and my fiance's mother are paranoid. (I think there's one in every family.) But they don't tell us we're literally killing them.

And well, she's letting them win. She's chalking it up to "this is beyond my control." And she's trying hard to not let her feelings manifest. That tells you a lot. She was defending her father today. She probably will realize just how emotionally abusive her parents have been, my trying to convince her otherwise right now would only make her see me as the bad-guy in all of this, heck, my even showing a little need towards her or affection alone will make her want to hate me further.

I mean good god I want to be there for her but she doesn't want me to be there. And she keeps saying that it's her dad and not herself. But she's gotten so further down that whole that she's probably convinced that I'm not the right person. She wants me to stop feeling for her because yes that'd be the easier thing to do on her conscience. She wants me to stop loving her and is deliberately doing things that she knows I'd dislike.

And well, it's working. Emotions need to be nurtured. What she's doing is systematically lacerating that away and I know it's difficult for her to do and I know it's hard and that she's in pain but she doesn't want me to comfort her. What I'm a bit unsure of right now is...

Whether i should just go up to her and say "yeah I understand what you're going through. If you're not ready for this then you're not ready. It doesn't have to be that bad. Your dad is right, you can find someone better than me."

I don't know, if maybe that'll make her contradict whatever is being told to her? Reverse psychology? I tried being honest and her answer was "be really honest, it hurts."

I actually planned out on a long and meaningful gift for her on her birthday (it's on the 14th for all the good that does) but if she still wants space should I go with that or tone it down and just give her something she wanted? Y'know, one that doesn't elaborately talk about how much I love her and all that?

It really can come down to timing. I knew a girl in college who dated around like nobody's business. She'd date a guy for a month, find something imperfect about him, then dump him and move on to the next guy. (She could keep doing this despite our extremely small student body, because she was gorgeous.) She was NEVER happy.

And then a few years after we graduated, she got married. Either she grew up or she actually did meet someone that perfect, but since they're still married a few years later, I'm guessing she grew up and the right guy came along at the right time.

Yeah that'll probably happen to her.

It IS an infatuation right now, Nave. Like Erz said, she's not going to bat for you. Love is not simply a need, love is a security blanket. You have to know that this other person is always going to be there, and that's a two-way street. You can't truly love her in the context of a relationship if she doesn't love you back. I mean, it can really, REALLY feel that way, but you don't want an unreciprocated love. It's not the kind of love you feel in a really secure relationship.

It's just sad because she was reciprocating then she let her dad get in her way and now she's spending all her time trying to defend him. It doesn't help that she's severing all ways I can reach her and talk to her, I mean you can only do so much in school. One of the things that actually made me want this in the first place is because she came up to me. And I'm repeating this: she came to me. I've always said that I'd only love someone who loves me back -- and this whole thing with doubts and space and what not is just not working out. It isn't. I'm not the most perfectly irresistable guy out there -- for christ's sake i stutter when i talk in public. I get nervous when i'm around people. i'm introverted. And i'm working on that but it's going to take time . I surprised myself (and her) a lot in the past month when we've been going out and doing things I would've never thought I would've done before. But all of that means nothing if at the end of the day she doesn't love me back.

And I've proven myself time and again. Time, and again. How much I care. So I'm impatient now because she stopped all contact. Is that so damn wrong?

I was really infatuated with my first bf. I needed him, but that manifested in extreme jealousy because of my low self-esteem. I hated it. I've never been nearly as infatuated with my fiance, filled with needing (I chalk that up to growing up and being somewhat cynical now ), but what's there instead is a security that I've never felt before (well, maybe except with my parents), one that almost brings me to tears to think about. That unconditional love you want to give her, but she's not giving you.

That's unconditional love I am giving her

The 14th. I'm giving her till the 14th. Tell me what I should do with the gifts --

1) respect space and give her something she's been asking for that's small and convenient and not really too pushy

2) disregard that and give her something meaningful and expensive that shows just how much I care about her (I don't... really think she needs to know that but it's still a meaningful gesture.)

3) Both.

No. None isn't an option. Not right now. 1) is "none" enough.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

My nephew told me something I found pretty disturbing last night that has me thinking about the anti-marriage views that some people have and my assessment of what he'd said. He basically said that he didn't want to get married because marriage is broken and that the other person will always use you for something. To me that is a very cynical view of him to have and he's going to be 14 years old soon. I'd told him the reason why marriages don't work is because people don't try to make it work.

Yup. Pretty much. That's true of relationships as well -- people need to try to make it work instead of trying to not make it work.

That's what I feel what my "girlfriend" is doing right now to comply to her father's wishes.

(and yes, i'm using quotes on that because i'm very much aware of how absurd that is right now)

 

[Godzilla2000]

Yup. Pretty much. That's true of relationships as well -- people need to try to make it work instead of trying to not make it work.

That's what I feel what my "girlfriend" is doing right now to comply to her father's wishes.

(and yes, i'm using quotes on that because i'm very much aware of how absurd that is right now)

I think what's frustrating is that when dealing with the relationship between two people it should be about the two people and their relating with one another, it should not be about anyone else. But it seems like people on the outside think they have a personal stake in a relationship when they don't. People on the outside tend to meddle and tamper with things they should just not be involved in.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I like this name.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I couldn't agree more. But I'll add that it's usually the two individuals within the relationship who LET the others get involved.

It's all about choice. At the end of the day, we're all still responsible for our failures. Because, yes, we just weren't good enough.

 

[JP]

Finally worked up the courage to ask this guy I'd been flirting with for the last few months out on a date. It's been a day, and no response.

 

[Anita18]

I couldn't agree more. But I'll add that it's usually the two individuals within the relationship who LET the others get involved.

It's all about choice. At the end of the day, we're all still responsible for our failures. Because, yes, we just weren't good enough.

"Good enough" is relative in relationships. It's all about how you're compatible, not about "goodness" or "standards" or all that crap.

And yes, I'm part of a wedding-planning online community now and there are many, many brides who cut off contact with their families because they've been emotionally abusive and want to control everything, including destroying the relationship between the two altar-bound partners. You don't HAVE to have other people get up all into your bzns if you don't want them to. You do have a choice - get them out of your life. Right now she doesn't see that option, but it's there. She has to want it enough, and she doesn't. I don't know what else to tell you.

She could have cared for you before her parents got in the way, but if she won't go to bat for you in the face of her parents, whom she has a choice in not listening to, what about other things? What about when you two are looking for jobs, or other real-life things that are actually going to affect both of you directly? If she has no faith in you now, she won't have faith in you then.

Finally worked up the courage to ask this guy I'd been flirting with for the last few months out on a date. It's been a day, and no response.

Did you text him or something? You know that a lot of people don't respond to emails or texts all THAT frequently, right? Unless it was immediate responses before, and then nothing. Then that's when you need an awkward button.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Okay, so I've been getting along with my friend, Sydney for a while. Etc; so forth, we like and obviously care for each other. Now, she told me she didn't want a boyfriend, but she keeps sending me mixed signals (kissing, flirting, playful banter, again etc and so forth.) So when I asked her out..she told me she said repeatedly she didn't want a boyfriend, yet I don't get it..if she's kissing me, why is she telling me she doesn't want a boyfriend? I know she doesn't wanna be friends with benefits, so that can't be it. I am so confused.

 

[JP]

"Good enough" is relative in relationships. It's all about how you're compatible, not about "goodness" or "standards" or all that crap.

And yes, I'm part of a wedding-planning online community now and there are many, many brides who cut off contact with their families because they've been emotionally abusive and want to control everything, including destroying the relationship between the two altar-bound partners. You don't HAVE to have other people get up all into your bzns if you don't want them to. You do have a choice - get them out of your life. Right now she doesn't see that option, but it's there. She has to want it enough, and she doesn't. I don't know what else to tell you.

She could have cared for you before her parents got in the way, but if she won't go to bat for you in the face of her parents, whom she has a choice in not listening to, what about other things? What about when you two are looking for jobs, or other real-life things that are actually going to affect both of you directly? If she has no faith in you now, she won't have faith in you then.


Did you text him or something? You know that a lot of people don't respond to emails or texts all THAT frequently, right? Unless it was immediate responses before, and then nothing. Then that's when you need an awkward button.

I wanted to be a bit creative, so I designed this cute/somewhat quirky invitation. Or at least I tried to.

 

[lixdexia]

I wanted to be a bit creative, so I designed this cute/somewhat quirky invitation. Or at least I tried to.

i did a similar thing yesterday. i hope they both work out well

 

[Erzengel]

Okay, so I've been getting along with my friend, Sydney for a while. Etc; so forth, we like and obviously care for each other. Now, she told me she didn't want a boyfriend, but she keeps sending me mixed signals (kissing, flirting, playful banter, again etc and so forth.) So when I asked her out..she told me she said repeatedly she didn't want a boyfriend, yet I don't get it..if she's kissing me, why is she telling me she doesn't want a boyfriend? I know she doesn't wanna be friends with benefits, so that can't be it. I am so confused.

She probably just wants the attention.

There's even the possibility she may not want YOU as her boyfriend.