Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 6

[Bruce Malone]

Can you two stop talking so much about the books here? There's already a thread for it
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=353715&page=29

Exactly it's started up again. I'm pretty much having to squit through some of these passages because i'm not sure if they're talking books or tv at this point?

I think any discussion about what characters have or haven't done yet past what we've seen on the show should be left in the book thread.

 

[Marvolo]

Exactly it's started up again. I'm pretty much having to squit through some of these passages because i'm not sure if they're talking books or tv at this point?

I think any discussion about what characters have or haven't done yet past what we've seen on the show should be left in the book thread.

Book discussion has stopped, but dont worry spoilers were spoiler tagged.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Even some of the non-tagged stuff seemed sort of spoiler-y to me. Like i mentioned i think any discussions about characters futures (beyond where we are in the show) even if leaving out specific details still goes too far.

I'd really hate having to go to another forum just to discuss GoT due to the fact some other forums are somewhat stricter with the whole no book discussion policy.

 

[Jordacar]

Someone remind me, who now knows that Bran & Rickon are still among the living?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Theon does.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I've seen her with handmaidens who have nowhere else to go through no fault of her own that she took in from squalor and filth and who have devoted themselves to her because of her love and care but I have seen no slaves.

I suggest you go back and watch the first season. He husband has slaves and her brother does as well.

Someone remind me, who now knows that Bran & Rickon are still among the living?

Theon and those with them. That is it.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I suggest you go back and watch the first season..

I suggest you go back and watch the last episode of the first season. Any bonds that Drogo may have forced on those people were relinquished once he died.

 

[DACrowe]

First season was very different from seasons 2&3. I didn't get into it until season 2. The new showrunner saved it for me. Of course they fired him too and reshot stuff in season 3 and I was largely disappointed with season 3 so who knows what season 4 will be like. As for the zombies, this isn't a sombie show in the typical sense. Its about the humans left behind and the zombies barely factor into the plot. The title "the walking dead" doesn't even refer to the zombies. It refers to the humans still living who are actually carriers of the virus but due to an anomaly don't turn unless they die. And in their universe there was no zombie lore nor zombies in pop culture at all prior to the outbreak so no one ever conceived anything like the dead rising. They dont even know the word zombie. The show flips the zombie genre on its head in a number of ways.

See, I thought Season 1 started well and ended weak. I slogged through all of Season 2, but other than the Shane subplot, it was a boring waste of time.

Should I watch Season 3? All I hear is "it is finally good now" or "governor this, Andrea that."

Perhaps I should watch it, but I found the second year so boring.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I suggest you go back and watch the last episode of the first season. Any bonds that Drogo may have forced on those people were relinquished once he died.

And? It was ok until her husband died? That is what we call having your cake and eating it to. Dany could not control her husband's people. That is why she didn't even try.

See, I thought Season 1 started well and ended weak. I slogged through all of Season 2, but other than the Shane subplot, it was a boring waste of time.

Should I watch Season 3? All I hear is "it is finally good now" or "governor this, Andrea that."

Perhaps I should watch it, but I found the second year so boring.

The show has never approached its first episode again. The pilot is so good and so much better then what has happened since it makes you wish the show was good.

For what it is worth they I think they have started each season well, and then just drifted off into a boring slog. Season 2 and 3 both have situations of complete stalling. In the second season it was Shane. They couldn't leave the farm or progress the story until they killed him. Third season it is the ridiculous standoff between Rick and the Governor.

They know how to start something, but not a clue how to progress it or make it interesting past the original idea.

 

[Roose Bolton]

The only power she had was what he allowed her, and tender lover or not he was still a barbarian. They'd be no way she could get him to release all the slaves, no way in hell. But after he died and she had that power she freed them.

But of course in your biased view it was probably all done with malicious intent.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The only power she had was what he allowed her, and tender lover or not he was still a barbarian. They'd be no way she could get him to release all the slaves, no way in hell. But after he died and she had that power she freed them.

But of course in your biased view it was probably all done with malicious intent.

She had power with Drogo. She showed it. But all that is alright when you think your husband is going to cross the ocean and take over a kingdom in your son's name.

Jon Snow fights for all of Westeros. Robb fights for his people. Stannis does his duty. Dany fights for herself.

 

[Bruce Malone]

She had power with Drogo. She showed it. But all that is alright when you think your husband is going to cross the ocean and take over a kingdom in your son's name.

Jon Snow fights for all of Westeros. Robb fights for his people. Stannis does his duty. Dany fights for herself.

Who does she even have to fight for? The only family/relations she had was her dead brother who was a prick to her all her life and her dead husband who she was sold to.

I mean she really is alone in the world, i think that kinda gives you an excuse to be a tad selfish. Hell even the one ally she has now was originally sent to kill her.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Who does she even have to fight for? The only family/relations she had was her dead brother who was a prick to her all her life and her dead husband who she was sold to.

I mean she really is alone in the world, i think that kinda gives you an excuse to be a tad selfish. Hell even the one ally she has now was originally sent to kill her.

She is breeding dragons for war, for murder. She really isn't dissimilar to her brother or her father the mad king in her power trip. What I want is mine, and I will take it through mass murder if I must. That is what "fire and blood" means. Literally. She could live her life in peace. She could spend her life helping people. That isn't what she chooses to do. She chooses war, she chooses bloodshed in the name of her father who was a crazy murder. Selmy is right there. He knew her father and her family. If he tells her what her father was really like, you think this will stop her from her goal?

It might be understandable too me if there weren't people like Jon in the series, but there are. I felt for Dany in the first season and book. I loved her. One of my favorite characters. Right next to Ned, Jon, Bran, Tyrion and Arya. But as the show and series go on, I like her less and less. She is "a certain point of view" person, and I can't stand those kind of people. They want it both ways.

 

[Bruce Malone]

She could live her life in peace. She could spend her life helping people. That isn't what she chooses to do. She chooses war, she chooses bloodshed in the name of her father who was a crazy murder. Selmy is right there. He knew her father and her family. If he tells her what her father was really like, you think this will stop her from her goal?

First of all Dany can never live her life in peace. She's still a targaryan and if you haven't noticed there are many people who want her dead. I think that assassination attempt on her was a turning point for her that she will always be hunted just for who she is.

Secondly Dany justifies her actions due to the fact she feels she is acting in the greater good for the people. All she knows of westeros is what she's been told of since she was a child. About how the people are miserable and want a just ruler. To her the greater benefit to the people may have to come through war and force (a sentiment held by probably 70% of world leaders in history).

I'm not personally justifying what she's trying to do but i understand it from her point of view in life.

*Just a side-note if you haven't noticed already i'd appreciate if we leave any references to dany in the book aside and just focus on her on the show, thanks.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

First of all Dany can never live her life in peace. She's still a targaryan and if you haven't noticed there are many people who want her dead. I think that assassination attempt on her was a turning point for her that she will always be hunted just for who she is.

Are you talking about the first one or the latest one? Because since the end of the first season Dany has just been making herself more of a target every time she does something.

Secondly Dany justifies her actions due to the fact she feels she is acting in the greater good for the people. All she knows of westeros is what she's been told of since she was a child. About how the people are miserable and want a just ruler. To her the greater benefit to the people may have to come through war force.

But do you really think she believed that before the power trip? She seemed to look down at her brother's goal. She just wanted to live a simple life. Now that her brother is dead, suddenly she wants what he wanted? It just seems convenient.

If Selmy tells her differently, do you think she will listen? That she will give up her quest to take the Iron Throne?

I'm not personally justifying what she's trying to do but i understand it from her point of view in life.

I think her point of view changed as soon as she got a little power.

Just a side-note if you haven't noticed already i'd appreciate if we leave any references to dany in the book aside and just focus on her on the show, thanks.

That is why I am keeping it to the show.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I was referring to her first assassination and frankly anytime you chose the offense tactic vs defense in surviving you will always become a bigger target.

I honestly do believe that dany at least at first truly believed she was doing what was right for her and the people of westeros. Now that she's gotten a taste of power i do believe her motivations are starting to become a bit more personal but she's only human (i think?) and that's natural. Even people who started out with the greatest of intents had power affect them.

She didn't care about her brother goals at first but when you have nothing in life but stories of your families accomplishments it's only natural to gravitate to something big and something that connects you with them. In her mind she's probably thinking i'll do what my brother wanted to do but i'm not a dick like he was so i'll be much better at it.

I can actually see Dany becoming a villain at some point don't get me wrong but up til now i get what she's doing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I was referring to her first assassination and frankly anytime you chose the offense tactic vs defense in surviving you will always become a bigger target.

Which is why I place blame on her as well.

I honestly do believe that dany at least at first truly believed she was doing what was right for her and the people of westeros. Now that she's gotten a taste of power i do believe her motivations are starting to become a bit more personal but she's only human (i think?) and that's natural. Even people who started out with the greatest of intents had power affect them.

But that is my point. So many of Dany's actions at this point are selfish. But I am to believe all these people follow her because she is goodness and light. She isn't.

I can understand liking her, that is fine. But she is not some great person doing her all for the people. That is Jon.

I like Tywin for who he is. I don't try and make him noble.

She didn't care about her brother goals at first but when you have nothing in life but stories of your families accomplishments it's only natural to gravitate to something big and something that connects you with them. In her mind she's probably thinking i'll do what my brother wanted to do but i'm not a dick like he was so i'll be much better at it.

Which is why I say she is a hypocrite. Why I think she talks out of both sides of her mouth, and why I think she might end up as mad as her brother and father.

She is the perfect example of "a certain point of view".

 

[Bruce Malone]

You're looking at dany in too much of a black and white prism. Nobody is totally good and nobody is totally evil, that should be the motto for GoT honestly.

Again i'm not justifying her actions but looking at things from her point of view and her life up until now and i understand what she is trying to do. I think you're being too harsh on her. She's not forcing anyone to follow her, the rest are following her because they simply believe in her and give them some sort of hope.

There is nothing that as of now should cause dany to be seen by anyone as a villain espeically among all the other characters. Like i said don't look at her through a black and white lens. I'm glad her character is not all pure as i feel that would make for a very boring character. If she does descend into some darkness i'll be very intrigued to follow.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're looking at dany in too much of a black and white prism. Nobody is totally good and nobody is totally evil, that should be the motto for GoT honestly.

There are at least two totally evil people on GoT imo. The Mountain and Joffrey.

Again i'm not justifying her actions but looking at things from her point of view and her life up until now and i understand what she is trying to do. I think you're being too harsh on her. She's not forcing anyone to follow her, the rest are following her because they simply believe in her and give them some sort of hope.

A false prophet is a false prophet. She puts herself on that pedestal.

And lets be fair, if you use the "certain point of view" argument, everyone is justified in what they do from their personal point of view. Joffrey was justified in cutting Ned's head off from his point of view. The Mountain was justified in using the Tickler.

There is nothing that as of now should cause dany to be seen by anyone as a villain espeically among all the other characters. Like i said don't look at her through a black and white lens. I'm glad her character is not all pure as i feel that would make for a very boring character. If she does descend into some darkness i'll be very intrigued to follow.

All the other characters aren't interacting with her. But her plan is go across the water and burn everything until they submit to her.

Her favorite words are "Fire and Blood".

 

[Roose Bolton]

Because of course wars are won without the lose of life.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because of course wars are won without the lose of life.

There need be no war. She wants to make a needless war. She isn't Robb Stark here. She isn't even Stannis.

But alas, Winter is Coming and all these people will learn soon enough what matters. Hopefully not too late.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Because of course wars are won without the lose of life.

Bingo.

Dany is no more a "false prophet" than anyone else fighting for the crown. Hell she's killed about 1000% less people than any of the other one's. Robb stark has a hell of a lot more blood on his hands than dany.

Either way she feels she's entitled to the crown like anyone out there fighting for it and just like anyone else to get it you're gonna have to go to war. That's just how it is. That's how the whole history of the world has worked pretty much

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bingo.

Dany is no more a "false prophet" than anyone else fighting for the crown. Hell she's killed about 1000% less people than any of the other one's. Robb stark has a hell of a lot more blood on his hands than dany.

Robb Stark and his people went to war, because the man who has watched over them and treated them all fair and just was taken captive for no reason other then Joffrey has no rightful claim to the throne. Then Joffrey cut his head off. It is not like they have gotten involved in this conflict because they want a crown.

No matter who Robb kills or who dies in service of him, he looks upon it with thought. Robb also does not ask any of his soldiers to do anything he is not willing.

Either way she feels she's entitled to crown like anyone out there fighting for it and just like anyone else to get it you're gonna have to go to war. That's just how it is.

Yep, she is entitled. She wants her crown. Thank you for proving my point.

The only one with a claim to the throne right now is Stannis. Robb isn't even fighting for the crown. He is looking for justice, just like the rest of his people.

 

[Bruce Malone]

You're missing the entire point of the show. There is no legitimate or illegitimate claim to the throne. The only way anyone gets it is through force.

The only reason King Robert got the throne was by over throwing the targareans in a rebellion. Just like there is a rebellion right now. Dany's claim to the throne is just as strong as stannis. What's the quote? "in the game of thrones you either win or die".

Dany feels she deserves the throne by blood right just like stannis does and just like i'm sure stannis does she feels she would be the best ruler for westeros. That doesn't make her any more selfish or ruthless than he is. If dany was indeed to become a just ruler you could very well argue the means justify the ends.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Shireen Baratheon:

Missendei & Grey Worm: