Gotham Gotham Season 1, Episode 2 "Selina Kyle" General Discussion

[Marx]

Another solid episode. I really enjoyed young Seminar. There are similarities in her appearance and demeanor to Michelle Pfeiffer.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Yeah I agree it was a solid episode but seeing as the title of said episode was "Selina Kyle" I think we should've seen a lot more of her. But what little we did see of her and hey she talks now was good.

 

[Bathead]

I buy Bruce's quick transformation. It's the one bad day version of his origin where he instantly changes during the shooting.

It's been said quite few times in Batman's history, that the day his parents were killed is the day Bruce Wayne also died and Batman was born. His portrayal here fits that perfectly.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

In regards to some fans complaints of Gordon's look. I just assumed as he ages he will grow a mustache and eventually wear glasses. But for now this is clearly a younger/ hip Gordon with a wife LOL.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

What is with people completely writing off a show within the first TWO episodes? I don't know many shows that started right out of the gate with flawless execution. Have you guys learned nothing from shows like Arrow or Agents of Shield? Give the show some time, if by the end of season 1 the show still hasn't improved THEN you can say that show sucks or whatever. But now is WAY to early to be writing the show off.

 

[NoBozos]

My only complaint is the over the top acting by some of the characters-especially the regulars like Fish. Have these people even seen the last 3 Batman movies?

Penguin so far is fantastic-Robin Taylor is going to put his mark on this character.

And the "look" of the city is incredible.

 

[Kane52630]

My only complaint is the over the top acting by some of the characters-especially the regulars like Fish. Have these people even seen the last 3 Batman movies?

aannd?

 

[Mysteryman]

What does the last three Batman movies have to do with Gotham?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I think he was saying that people are bashing this for having campy dialogue etc and give a pass to some spotty acting, weak characters, and plot holes in the Nolan Bat films that fans often over look, justify, or completely ignore expecially on this site.

 

[NoBozos]

for the most part, the Nolan films were handled in a very straight manor and NOT that over the top acting you saw from the likes of Uma Thurman in those previous movies.

 

[LurkNoMore]

Elegant lighting, talented actors, terrible script. There's a bewilderingly farcical tone to this show's attempts at horror, and it relies far too much on the significance of these characters to Batman fans. I'll watch out of morbid curiosity for a while longer, but so far, this is not my idea of good television.

While it's certainly not on the level of currently airing TV greats (IMHO Game of Thrones, Hannibal and True Detective) it is very good for what it is; a loose adaptation of a comic book B-character (Gordon) that is trying to mine the Batman corner of the DC multiverse for all it can.

Listen, it’s Fox. For Fox, this is solid TV. If it were on HBO, Showtime, or AMC I would be judging it far more harshly. That’s an insult at a certain level, I know, but grading this show on a scale is fair.

I was kind of shocked by most of the reviewers here who felt the show lacked a coherent tone. I thought it nailed the tone far better than the pilot did. The problem is it’s going for something not easily categorized:

- It likes to think it can be shockingly violent (not disturbing like Hannibal, but again, shocking for a quasi comic book adaptation) without alienating parents who might let their tweens watch.
- It likes to think it’s clever in its foreshadowing of the paths of its characters, but is way too obvious for those in the know, and not effective enough for noobs. It’s easter eggs need to revealed more subtly in the future lest it suffer the unending loathing of its fanboy core audience.
- It likes to think it’s a character-based drama, but it needs to slow down in those scenes and let the characters develop more naturally. It’s like the producers suffer from ADHD and can’t wait to reach the finish line before they’ve even settled into the starting blocks.
- It likes to think it can be philosophical (any time Falcone shows up) and at a rudimentary level it’s pretty solid on that front.
- It likes to be a bit sexy (here it fails, IMO as I don’t really find the future Mrs. Gordon very attractive, nor do I find her hints of a lesbian past with Montoya all that titillating, and Fish Mooney is too…over the top to be sexy).
- It seems to want to be a police procedural, but it’s not really smart enough to be taken seriously on that front. I’d say that that its procedural-centric scenes are at the level of The Mentalist, which of course Bruno Heller (showrunner) also created.

That sounds like I just tore the show a new one, but again, I can enjoy it for what it is, not what it could be in a perfect coulda-woulda-shoulda world. The show is absolutely gorgeous (the rich set design, subtle cityscape augmentations, lighting, and for the most part, the actors, are all highly watchable).

Highlights for this episode:
- Camren Bicondova as Selina Kyle (amazingly confident and solid performance from a 15 year old girl with barely any acting experience whatsoever). I like her face. She’s a beautiful young lady, but at times can appear truly alien and disquieting, which work perfectly well for her character.
- Cinematography, lighting and set design (I actually like it more than TDK trilogies (and I’m not knocking Nolan/Pfister). It paints a really immersive and epic version of Gotham that doesn’t look like they used the modernist sections of Chicago for a backdrop. Even though New York is the foundation, they’ve enhanced the city so much it has its own distinct flavour.
- Ben McKenzie seems to have settled his nerves from the pilot and is now enjoying his scenes with Donal Logue rather than surviving them. Nice solid and subtle work from him.
- Robin Lord Taylor is settling into his character quite nicely as well, showing that Oswald is a very complicated little fellow who, if he can gain some confidence, will become quite a significant threat to the city.
- Lili Taylor. Completely wasted here, but it’s great to see her wherever/whenever she shows up.

 

[Steyin]

Much better episode than the pilot. I was entertained the whole way through. Still don't care for Alfred, and the main title zoom in with the horns is cheesy as **** and needs to go or be revamped.

 

[Bathead]

My only complaint is the over the top acting by some of the characters-especially the regulars like Fish. Have these people even seen the last 3 Batman movies?

Penguin so far is fantastic-Robin Taylor is going to put his mark on this character.

And the "look" of the city is incredible.

Quite frankly, I'm not seeing this over acting some are complaining about.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Quite frankly, I'm not seeing this over acting some are complaining about.

Eh
I kind of saw it in the way that Fish delivered her "I am gonna kill that old man with my bare hands, and my teeth" line,but I wasn't really bothered by it.

 

[NoBozos]

Quite frankly, I'm not seeing this over acting some are complaining about.

I guess I'm just hypersensitive to it as I don't want people to judge the show as a "silly comic book show" and when I see those rare acting moments I'm just reminded of how much I hated Uma Thurman's performance and other performances like THAT.

 

[super85]

Nah, you are not hypersensitive NoBozos. Fish Mooney and those two cr*pbag characters that kiddnapped the children come across as over the top cartoons.

There's a lot to like about the show, but some of those caricatures they try show of as real characters are truly annoying.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Nah, you are not hypersensitive NoBozos. Fish Mooney and those two cr*pbag characters that kiddnapped the children come across as over the top cartoons.

There's a lot to like about the show, but some of those caricatures they try show of as real characters are truly annoying.

That's the biggest hurdle I'm trying to get over to enjoy this show. There's a lot to like here, but nearly everyone on this show is overacting. I wish they'd just turn the dial down on everything by like 30%. Every time two actors yell at each other from 8 inches away I cringe.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Listen, it’s Fox. For Fox, this is solid TV. If it were on HBO, Showtime, or AMC I would be judging it far more harshly. That’s an insult at a certain level, I know, but grading this show on a scale is fair.

That's a pretty interesting point you raise, and it's probably my biggest thing with the show. I like the series, I really do. But the whole time I can't get over how much better it could be on AMC or FX or HBO with a more realistic tone. I never really cared for the kids being kidnapped because the series feels so overdramatic that the tension is almost nonexistent.

At some point I'm going to have to lower my expectations and enjoy the show for what it is, not what it could be. It's a tough thing to do, though.

 

[Just_Human]

Feels like BTAS ,tbh

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Definitely an improvement over the pilot but that isn't saying much. Fish is just hamming it up in every scene she is in and I will be glad to see her go. As someone else pointed out as well the 2 villains of this episode were cheesy. Penguin and Selina are great though. Jim is giving a great performance throughout but I'm not really liking how Logue is playing it. Young Bruce kills it in every scene he is in but Alfred is giving off this un-Alfred vibe to me. Not liking when he freaks out on Bruce, just doesn't seem right to me. Something still looks off on the show to me, not sure if it's the cheesy backdrops or the lighting or what. Hopefully they continue this trend of improving with each show though, I'm sure by mid-season they will be running on all cylinders.

 

[JJmelo]

Definitely an improvement over the pilot but that isn't saying much. Fish is just hamming it up in every scene she is in and I will be glad to see her go. As someone else pointed out as well the 2 villains of this episode were cheesy. Penguin and Selina are great though. Jim is giving a great performance throughout but I'm not really liking how Logue is playing it. Young Bruce kills it in every scene he is in but Alfred is giving off this un-Alfred vibe to me. Not liking when he freaks out on Bruce, just doesn't seem right to me. Something still looks off on the show to me, not sure if it's the cheesy backdrops or the lighting or what. Hopefully they continue this trend of improving with each show though, I'm sure by mid-season they will be running on all cylinders.

Totally agree with you on the Mooney part. Smith played it waaaay too hammy this time around, needlessy drawing out her words and emphasizing things like she was literally in a comic book. Just didnt mesh with the realistic vibe the show is going for.

As for the two main villains, I loved them. I ate up their childish mannerisms and air of mystery. I just want to know who they were working for exactly, cuz snatching kids and threatening to throw them in a bottomless pit is pretty extreme.

Overall I thought it was better than the pilot but still a lot of room for growth.

Check out my full review if anybody is interested

http://otlnews.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/gotham-review-ep-2-selina-kyle/

 

[NoBozos]

I did like the first scene where Taylor and Whaley showed up with the sandwiches. I thought that was handled well and pretty creepy. Hated their scene in the drug store and everything from that point on was Batman & Robin, Batman Forever with those 2.

Wasn't there an episode in TAS where the homeless kids were down in the sewers? That's where I thought it was all going when they first showed that pit.

 

[Just_Human]

Another solid episode. I really enjoyed young Seminar. There are similarities in her appearance and demeanor to Michelle Pfeiffer.

damn autocorrect

 

[Just_Human]

Wasn't there an episode in TAS where the homeless kids were down in the sewers? That's where I thought it was all going when they first showed that pit.

Yup

The Underdwellers


Also that kids's brother in TDKR working in the sewers kinda reminded me of that episode

 

[kguillou]

So it seems like the consensus is that this is a solid show with lots of great potential but the dialogue and campy acting needs to be toned down. I am very much in agreement with this.