Gotham Gotham Season 1, Episode 2 "Selina Kyle" General Discussion

[BestGirl]

Judging by a lot of the responses, am I the only here who thought this episode was an improvement from the pilot?[/QUOTW]

Absolutely not. I preferred this episode to the pilot...and I had enjoyed the pilot.

I thought the pilot was very badly paced and overall mediocre. Not that this episode was amazing, but it was a lot more in line with what the show should be IMO. Character easter eggs weren't anywhere near as irritating. Pacing was better until the last few minutes. The city corruption felt more natural and with more substance, as opposed to last episode where it felt like...."Look look! It's corrupt! Everyone's corrupt! THIS CITY IS EVIL!"

Agreed. I loved how the cop just ditched the dead hobo. You can see why the future GPD will not be able to catch Batman or any criminals.

With the exception of Fish Mooney, I liked all the characters a bit more this time around. Falcone got more screentime, Alfred was less of a *****e and whenever he was, it felt more intentional as opposed to poor execution. Bruce and Penguin are the breakout characters/performances of the show IMO. However, Riddler is absolutely atrocious. Too over the top, too shoehorned in. Worst villain so far.

I can't say the Riddler has ever felt shoehorned in. Every scene he's in he's talking about forensic stuff that is pertinent to the case.

We should assume or hope that Alfred will also journey from gruff to compassionate father figure throughout the run of the show.

You could see a bit of it in the first scene, when he shouts at Bruce and then hugs and apologizes to him.

 

[Frodo]

We should assume or hope that Alfred will also journey from gruff to compassionate father figure throughout the run of the show.

I hope so. I can see what they're going for and I kinda like the idea of this gruff old military man not knowing how to raise a kid and having to learn how to be a father figure. I just felt that in the second episode they directed him as a bit too unlikable as opposed to in the pilot where he came off as more stern then a jerk. Then again, I personally felt the hit alot of the right notes and tones in the pilot where they felt like they were kinda going off the rails in the second episode. It seemed to me as if they seemed more confident and restrained in the pilot and were kinda shooting in the dark for the second one.

 

[Shikamaru]

I thought Alfred was worse in this one. The "stupid little boy" comment he made sealed the deal for me. At this point i want this Alfred out of the goddamn house!

I think they don't know what to do with Alfred at this point. It feels like sometimes they want him to be the "tough love" *****e of Earth One, and other times they want him to be the loving soft Alfred we know (for example, when he visited Gordon).

Regardless, I still thought he was better than last week, where he felt completely antagonistic towards Bruce. In this he had more Alfred-y moments.

 

[terry78]

Well Gordon is already being positioned as the more caring surrogate so they want conflict.

 

[Verick808]

You could see a bit of it in the first scene, when he shouts at Bruce and then hugs and apologizes to him.

That scene cut off a little abrupty imo. But I think Alfred will show his softer side more and more. The first thing we saw him do in the first episode was hold Bruce. He held him this episode too. I think well see them get closer but we will also see Alfred grow more and more worried and frustrated as Bruce takes things to further and further into the extremes.

Personally I like the rough version of Alfred. Alfred has been noted to be some sort of ex-soldier or spook in several different variations of the character including the Nolan films So its pretty cool to see a younger version on screen who hasn't put his past quite so far behind him. Man looks like he could put Jim down with ease. The only part that felt too odd to me was when he yelled at Bruce for sneaking up on him and Gordan. The fact that Gordan was brought their in the first place was a testament to the fact that he cared in the first place though.

 

[Siby]

The second episode was a little better but the acting is still terrible. Fish Mooney is portrayed so bad it makes me cringe. I now wish that Selina Kyle had remained quiet because her voice is more annoying than her showing up everywhere doing the stupid slinking movements.

I found it funny when Alfred yelled at Bruce for sneaking up on him and Gordon. It's what Batman does to Gordon and man others so that was a good setup.

I also like the Penguin story and watching him develop.

I am amazed at how incredibly beautiful and sexy Barbara is. I don't know the character but it confused me the first time Gordon said her name and kissed her on the lips. I was thought to myself, "Isn't Barbara his daughter?" Obviously this Barbara is not the daughter.

 

[blksuperman2]

This episode was definitely an improvement. I actually think the Pilot would have benefited from a 2hr premiere that certain shows do. That way the pacing would have been better. I still can't see how this Gordon will make it up the ranks if EVERYone is so corrupt in this city. lol, this city is depressing for sure.

 

[Kane52630]

Yeah it seemed clear that they edited that pilot to death down to one hour. I wonder if we'll see the full version on video.

 

[Grommers]

Loved this episode much more than the first, I quite like the riddler's "persona"- it feels in this episode, that he just wants people to be interested in the stuff he's interested in, and hates simple answers, and is a very complex character deep down, but obviously his social awkwardness, and people not understanding him and his wants/needs, puts him on a villanous path later on.


My issue right now is though, the ages, I can't see this Bruce ever out smarting Riddler, I know he's only (whatever age bruce is, I didn't pay attention), makes me wonder where they are going to take bruce's character, if they ship him off to school? Or if it's a lot more like year one, which doesn't really explain his training, aside from how he trained himself approach.

The other villain I'm curious if they will show-up is Ras Al Ghul.

 

[kane9321]

Young selina is nooo joke

I love how bruce...SNEAKS UP ON PEOPLE..JUST SAYING

I just have 2 problems

1) i want fish to die ...jada annoys the hell outta me

2) Alfred seems...mean/ kinda of a d!ck. Alfred should be seen as a father figure

 

[blksuperman2]

I'm surprised @ all of the Fish hate. I was presently surprised at how much I like the character. She's cartoony in a good way to me. Bullock is also growing on me too.

 

[Frodo]

I don't have a problem with Fish. She's tough and sexy at the same time. I did think her dialog was quite bad in the last episode but then again I felt the whole episode was a step down. Alfred was a jerk in the last episode imo, but I like the idea of him being a stern disciplinarian .

 

[Siby]

I've said it before and will keep repeating it, I absolutely HATE the portrayal of the character by Jada. From the cartoony movements to the cringe worthy dialog and delivery. The super close-ups of the face with the caked on makeup is also not pleasing.

I liked Bullock from the beginning, probably because I like Donal Logue. I also must say I like the environment shots now. It really shows the dirt and grime as a manifestation of the corruption rampant in the city.

As blaksuperman2 said, the Gotham is a really depressing place. It also makes me understand why such a place would have a Bat-man as its savior/vigilante. It also shows how inadequate Batman is to solve the problem. No matter what he does the city really never gets any better.

 

[NoBozos]

speaking of the city I loved how homeless kids are around one corner than literally around the other corner appeared to be a nice high end restaurant where that kid fell through the window

 

[Destructus86]

I just want to say that I love this show. I love that it doesn't take itself too seriously and embraces it's comic roots.

 

[Bathead]

Can someone please come up with a more original term than "cringe-worthy"? Y'all sound like you are just repeating stuff you've read here and aren't thinking for yourselves.

 

[P Supreme]

At this point I so want Penguin to kill Fish

 

[NoBozos]

I'm almost half expecting Penguin to cook her up and eat her since penguins eat fish.

 

[Bathead]

At this point I so want Penguin to kill Fish

That may eventually happen, perhaps in the last season, depending on how long the producers plan on keeping her around.

 

[Kane52630]

Can someone please come up with a more original term than "cringe-worthy"? Y'all sound like you are just repeating stuff you've read here and aren't thinking for yourselves.

Yeah, that word has lost all meaning to me.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I have to say, I really enjoyed this episode quite a bit. The pace was slowed down considerably and the storyline had more room to breathe.

The villians struck a nice balance between creepy and goofy. I know the tonal shifts are an issue for some people, but I'm enjoying the series approach so far. It's like Nolan and Burton blended together, with a touch of B:TAS. I don't know an awful lot about The Dollmaker, but I'm certainly looking forward to seeing him make an appearance.

Even moreso than the pilot, I really appreciated the banter and relationship between Gordon and Bullock. I can't be the only one that thinks it's the best part of the series?

Camren Bicondova was a fantastic Selina Kyle. Sadly, despite the title of the episode, we didn't get to see an awful lot from her. She has a lot of potential in this role and seems to be a real find. I'm not sure I buy the notion that she knows who shot the Waynes... but I'll go with it for now.

The only real negatives are two character I'm simply not warming to:

Fish Mooney - I'm sorry, but Jada Pinkett Smith veered right into terrible acting during a couple of scenes. She was nowhere near as campy or animated in the pilot. I'm all for a bit of over-acting and vamping it up, but she took it a little too far in this episode and delivered downright terrible line readings (Her accent is really ridiculous).

Alfred Pennyworth - I'm struggling with this one. There are times when I think I see what they are going for, but ultimately he just comes across an unlikeable jerk. Perhaps I just need to get used to it, but I simply don't like this Alfred. The Alfred on Beware the Batman was tough with Bruce, but a fatherly affection always came through.

Plus, did Thomas Wayne state in his will that Bruce Wayne was not to have grief counselling should he pass?

Overall, I'm still loving the series and it has me hooked.

 

[EssayM]

I feel like Fish has enough genuinely menacing moments (that scene where she turns on the Penguin is just brutal) to balance out the camp. It's like she puts on the rich bimbo routine to fool people, but she's not afraid to get her hands dirty when someone crosses her. Remember, she was the one swinging that bat before Penguin took over.

As a side note, the snatcher lady's reaction to that guy with his eyes clawed out is just priceless. That's some great dark humor right there.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I like Selina Kyle, she got just the right amount of spunk that you can see her evolutionary process into becoming Catwoman.

Bruce continues to intrigued me as he continues to push himself into becoming fearless.

Gordon rise as the white knight in the police department is becoming even noticable to (the Mayor, Alfred, Selina & Bruce)

Penguin...need I say more

Alfred- I still am not use to this version of the character. I wish he was more heartwarming and caring

 

[L.A.]

damn if she doesn't have the look of a 13 year old Michelle Pfeiffer...

I didn't realize it until my wife pointed it out to me.

 

[Golgo-13]

I'm surprised @ all of the Fish hate. I was presently surprised at how much I like the character. She's cartoony in a good way to me. Bullock is also growing on me too.

Fish is one of my favorite characters on the show.

Anyhow, i enjoyed the second ep more than i did the first. The more scenes i see of young Bruce, the more i wish the show was centered around him, as opposed to him popping up for a scene or two, here and there.