Green Arrow series in the works at The CW - Part 2

[solidsnake86]

He also has no problem murdering numerous underlings, but then when it comes to actually killing the real villain, he lets him live? No reason to cross him off the list until he's dead.

I'm pretty sure adam hunt told the cops that arrow put two of his men in the hospital. That suggests to me he didn't kill them.

The only people we know for sure that were killed were 2 of the 3 guys in the skull masks. Everyone else could be left ambiguous, I mean the guy has great aim, no reason why he couldn't just be wounding them.

 

[Human Torch]

All I can say is that the preview made it seem like he snapped that guy's neck because he knew he was Green Arrow--in the actual show he snaps his neck because the guy knows...he can fight?

He also has no problem murdering numerous underlings, but then when it comes to actually killing the real villain, he lets him live? No reason to cross him off the list until he's dead.

Basically this version of Oliver Queen makes no sense, in the greater context of the Green Arrow mythos, OR in the context of the Longbow Hunters where he kills lots of people. He's schizophrenic when it comes to his motivations and choice of who lives and who dies. It's not only a bad adaptation, it's simply a bad hero in and of itself!

If I remember right Ollie says "You killed that man",which I suppose makes him think he has justification for killing him.

I'm not crazy about the thought of Arrow killing,but I think they've tried to make a reasonable case that he only kills for a "valid" reason.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

On the contrary, one cannot train himself to fight the way Ollie did by shadow boxing. With the DS mask plus Ollie's fighting skill I bet it will be revealed that Slade trained him on the island before they fell out.

I agree with you shadow boxing can not teach you How do to deal with a enemy reactions in a real fight

Some of history's greatest warriors (Miyamoto Musashi, Hattori Hanzo, Hassan-i Sabbah) didn't have combat mentors, and yet they were proficient with weapons and their bare hands. They trained themselves in the jungles, mountains and deserts. It's not impossible, whatsoever.

 

[p4poetic]

Holy ****!

THE FIGHTING IS ****ING FANTASTIC! Best fight choreography currently on television BY FAR. The action and parkour was SICK.

CW definitely has a winner, this is lasting at least 5 years, may go 10 just like Smallville. The story is a lot better than expected, they set up so much and the characters don't seem like typical one dimensional comic book fare. Really interested to hear about what happened to him in the jungle, very interested to see how Canary and Speedy develop.
on the island stranded again.

One of the biggest positives for me is that the fight scenes wasn't quick cuts shaky cam. You can see the fight choreography. Something that's been missing in television/films for awhile now.

 

[Lencho01]

I thought it was ok. I'm not feeling the voice over stuff though.

Did wonder throughout how Ollie learned how to fight.

 

[Human Torch]

Honestly,the VO didn't bother me.It had a nice "comic booky" vibe for an otherwise "realistic" show.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Did wonder throughout how Ollie learned how to fight.

You were supposed to.

 

[Lencho01]

You were supposed to.

Maybe Deathstroke trained him and he later killed him...

 

[flickchick85]

Well the truth can be vomit-inducing.

Seriously though, Nikita is criminally underrated, imo. Great twists, some surprisingly good performances, and great fights actually performed by their lead actress. It's Alias without the supernatural crap that ruined the series. The pseudo-family bond of Nikita/Alex is just as compelling as Sydney and her actual spy family. There's a reason Nikita's the show that gets mentioned by critics now whenever they want a current example of The CW getting it right. And Arrow seems to resemble Nikita more than anything else on the network...which I obviously consider a good thing.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Well the truth can be vomit-inducing.

hehe..well said. Nikita is a great show.

Anyway,liked what i've seen so far...which is not what i expected honestly.

Seriously though, Nikita is criminally underrated, imo. Great twists, some surprisingly good performances, and great fights actually performed by their lead actress. It's Alias without the supernatural non-sense that ruined the series. The pseudo-family bond of Nikita/Alex is just as compelling as Sydney and her actual spy family. There's a reason Nikita's the show that gets mentioned by critics now whenever they want a current example of The CW getting it right.

__________________

It's great because the show, despite that its an 'action series' actually put more emphasis on the storyline. Bets example of this is the fact that while the series originally started out with just Nikita and Alex, it's now more or less an ensemble piece and no character on that show is a throwaway character. Every one of those character got an interesting storyarc. It doesn't rely on just action scenes to hooks the viewers, but with engaging storylines and characters. Hopefully arrow will follow Nikita example.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Some of history's greatest warriors (Miyamoto Musashi, Hattori Hanzo, Hassan-i Sabbah) didn't have combat mentors, and yet they were proficient with weapons and their bare hands. They trained themselves in the jungles, mountains and deserts. It's not impossible, whatsoever.

Well I cannot vouch for the rest but Musashi's father was one of the top swordsmen and instructors in Japan and he studied with him till he left home at what was it 17.

 

[Savage]

Well the truth can be vomit-inducing.

Seriously though, Nikita is criminally underrated, imo. Great twists, some surprisingly good performances, and great fights actually performed by their lead actress. It's Alias without the supernatural crap that ruined the series. The pseudo-family bond of Nikita/Alex is just as compelling as Sydney and her actual spy family. There's a reason Nikita's the show that gets mentioned by critics now whenever they want a current example of The CW getting it right. And Arrow seems to resemble Nikita more than anything else on the network...which I obviously consider a good thing.

Absolutely agree. Nikita's the best action show right now on the network and possibly current tv. Everything else in the genre seems to be some kind of police procedural or straight up drama with a few action scenes scattered in the season. You want to see bullets and ass kicking then you come to this show on the network you'd least expect.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Musashi , if i remember correctly, was trained by his opponents so to speak. He deconstructs every battle he was involved, that's how he developed his techniques.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Well I cannot vouch for the rest but Musashi's father was one of the top swordsmen and instructors in Japan and he studied with him till he left home at what was it 17.

He was, but Musashi stated himself that he criticized his father's technique. So when he ran away, he literally discarded what he learned from his father. It's one of the reasons why Miyamoto developed his two sword style.

Musashi , if i remember correctly, was trained by his opponents so to speak. He deconstructs every battle he was involved, that's how he developed his techniques.

Agreed, but keep in mind, his opponents were no slouches or push-overs. They were elite swordsman and martial artists. It'd be the equivalent of an amateur fighter with little to no fight experience challenging Anderson Silva.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I enjoyed the pilot even though I felt I'd seen most of it already from the trailers and sneak peaks.

The action was very well shot except the scene where he jacks Hunts car. The key thing here though was Amell, he did a really good job of being both convincing as a finely tuned fighter but also gave off the damaged side of Ollie from his time on the island.

As while his mission is to right is fathers wrongs I think it's clear he regrets who he was as shown in the scene where he tells Raisa he wants to be the man she thought he could be, and his relationships with his sister and Laurel and how he wants to repair that damage. Yet he wasn't a brooder, the signs of the charm that had made him a playboy and an innate likability were evident.

Tommy is going to be an interesting one to watch, I know what he becomes in the books but he was fun in the pilot and already looks shady.

As for how he learned to fight, infiltrate a high security building and set up a world class high tech computer system in a warehouse? well that'll be fun to learn over the course of the season.

So is the mum a bad guy then?

Yes she just hasn't told Ollie she frittered away the family6 fortune on a sex change.

Except Nikita, ya know, the best show on the network.

Indeed, best action show on TV IMO and it has meshed that well with fully rounded characters and an interesting take on espionage, plus it has constantly evolved and season 3 looks another step forward.

So, Dinah's dad... I wonder if he's going to be Ollie's Jim Gordon or Ollie's Captain Stacy.

His interactions with Hunt makes me think he'll end up his Gordon in a way, but not really with the same dynamic Batman and Gordon have just merely in the fact he'll trust Arrow is on the right side, of course the fact he kills may make things trickier.

I don't think he'll be actually forgiving Ollie himself anytime soon, given he cheated on one of his dauthers with his other daughter and it led to her death.

Oh, absolutely not. I love the Nolan movies but for the same reason I love Inception and Insomnia and Memento. They're good Nolan movies. As Batman movies they fall short. With Green Arrow I'm hoping it doesn't follow the same route because I am looking for those fanboy moments like in Marvel's features.

Lots of Batman's stories feature villains with no super powers.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

He was, but Musashi stated himself that he criticized his father's technique. So when he ran away, he literally discarded what he learned from his father. It's one of the reasons why Miyamoto developed his two sword style.

Yup! when he left home, at the age of 17, Musashi, then still using his real name, Takezo, was more or less a crap swordsman. He survived more by his wits than techniques.

Agreed, but keep in mind, his opponents were no slouches or push-overs. They were elite swordsman and martial artists. It'd be the equivalent of an amateur fighter with little to no fight experience challenging Anderson Silva.

Oh yeah, definitely. Not everybody can do what he did, that guy was one of a kind. he was more or less self taught, but he benefited greatyl from all the opponents he faced.He was an intelligent fighter, that's how he survived so many battles in the first place, and because he is intelligent, he learned a great deal from all his battles..thus became perhaps the greatest swordsman japan has ever known.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Oh, absolutely not. I love the Nolan movies but for the same reason I love Inception and Insomnia and Memento. They're good Nolan movies. As Batman movies they fall short. With Green Arrow I'm hoping it doesn't follow the same route because I am looking for those fanboy moments like in Marvel's features.

I certainly don't agree. Nolan's interpretation has been the most faithful adaptation to the character on the big screen. Just because the trilogy is grounded doesn't mean it falls short on fanboy moments.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Yup! when he left home, at the age of 17, Musashi, then still using his real name, Takezo, was more or less a crap swordsman. He survived more by his wits than techniques.

In some ways, yes. During his teens, Miyamoto sort of confirmed in his book [The Book of Five Rings] (my bible) that he depended on his wits heavily rather than skill and technique, at the time. He was basically an opportunistic warrior when you think about it. Musashi killed his first opponent by striking him when his guard was down. In his second bout, he relied on psychological warfare (by purposely arriving two hours late to the match, and angering his opponent beyond belief).

Oh yeah, definitely. Not everybody can do what he did, that guy was one of a kind. he was more or less self taught, but he benefited greatyl from all the opponents he faced.He was an intelligent fighter, that's how he survived so many battles in the first place, and because he is intelligent, he learned a great deal from all his battles..thus became perhaps the greatest swordsman japan has ever known.

I wholeheartedly agree. There will never be another Musashi, ever again. That man was dedicated to strategy, warfare, technique, etc his entire life. A true inspiration.

 

[gohei_]

When the first footage of this came out I knew right away that this would be right up my alley and I thought the pilot was great. The fight scenes were really great for a tv show as well. One thing I didn't like was the fact that the dialogue was really low so I had to turn up the volume really loud to hear anything.
Anyway, I'm really excited for next episode.
Also, during the first shot of the city, did anyone else notice the building shaped as SUperman's shield?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I quite enjoyed the pilot. But I still feel there is too much Batman influence. However, not as much from Batman Begins, but having read the series bible for the unmade Bruce Wayne TV show, from there too. It doesn't bother me tremendously, since people reuse things all the time.

Not happy about immediately setting up a love triangle, and am looking forward to more development off Merlyn. I'm hoping it won't be as long winded as Lex was for Smallville.

 

[Bruce Malone]

So i just saw the pilot and with the low expectations that come with a cw show it wasn't bad.

Just wondering in the comics does Green Arrow kill? because this guy has no qualms whatsoever. I thought in the scene where he first threatened hunt it would have made more sense to disable the security guys by aiming for their limbs and such and not their chest right away which was a little extreme.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

He has very occasionally.

 

[Spider‐Man]

Some of history's greatest warriors (Miyamoto Musashi, Hattori Hanzo, Hassan-i Sabbah) didn't have combat mentors, and yet they were proficient with weapons and their bare hands. They trained themselves in the jungles, mountains and deserts. It's not impossible, whatsoever.

So you're saying that without anyone to fight with, they trained themselves to be elite fighters? Highly unlikely. At some point they at least needed someone to test their ideas on and most certainly, not every one of them worked exactly as envisioned, needing some refinement at the very least.

But let's just cut to it. At some point, Ollie fought Slade, hense the mask with the arrow thru it. I find it highly unlikely that Ollie trained himself to best someone as skilled as slade without having anyone to train with, test his fighting theories (for that is what any fighting move is that has yet to be tested on someone else - a theory) on, etc. Even Batman Begins acknowledged the idea that Bruce training himself, as had always been the legend, was silly and thus showed a more realistic way that he would have obtained his fighting prowess. They even show that before Ras trains him, his fighting style is very blunt and inefficient. You can jump and flip and punch air or trees but as Bruce Lee himself said when Wall tried to intimidate him by breaking a board before their fight, "Boards don't hit back."

In all the examples above, each person you referenced had experience fighting with other people to develop their skills and at the very least realize what doesn't work for them. You cannot do that without someone else to fight with! It could be argued that Ollie had some training before he was stranded but they're really trying to play him up as someone who in the past only focused on drinking, partying, drugs and getting laid.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Who is this Slade and what was he doing on the island ?

 

[Savage]

Lots of Batman's stories feature villains with no super powers.

I certainly don't agree. Nolan's interpretation has been the most faithful adaptation to the character on the big screen. Just because the trilogy is grounded doesn't mean it falls short on fanboy moments.

While these are both true statements maybe I'm just spoiled by Marvel Studios' recent endeavors and my own lofty expectations set by the comics, the animated series and even most recent video games. I never got the feeling with the movies that this was just a man of flesh and bone in a fantastic world but a man of flesh and bone in a very grounded world. That was the goal and Nolan achieved that. Good for him and the people that favor that. It's just not nearly as much fun as what is my favorite aspect of the Batman universe. Some people like the 60s era, some the 70s. Some favor the more fantastic Brave and The Bold type stories while others the more grounded ones. I happen to favor a world where there is no way that Batman should even be facing these people (sometimes even creatures), far less for coming out on top, and still does. I like the movies as AN interpretation of the Batman universe just like I appreciate the 60s television series as another interpretation. I'm just speaking from a personal standpoint of what I like to see with my superpowerless superheroes.

This is where my opinion on Arrow comes in. The Nolan movies are finished so I see this as another opportunity with another vigilante character to set him in a world of impossible threats. Will I cry if that never happens? No. I certainly enjoy the Nolan movies. I just have my preferences and prefered stories to draw from (I for one think the Longbow Hunters is overrated and much prefer Judd Winick's run when he faced guys like Brick, Solomon Grundy and Dr. Light as often as he faced dudes like Constantine Drakon, Onomatopoeia and Deathstroke).