Spider‐Man;24454763 said:
He had formal training by his father up until what 8 or 9? That was a starting point from which to work, something Ollie likely never had as I stated earlier. The way you make it sound, someone with no training whatsoever can take a sword into the woods for a few years, come back out and beat just about anybody.
Yes, Miyamoto was trained by his father at a young age but Musashi didn't utilize what his father tried to instill into his style, and it still doesn't change the fact that Musashi threw himself into the woods and trained endlessly for years (creating his two-sword style). His technique was never dependent on his father's lessons.
I had to do a little research on him. Do you realize that it is said he could disappear and reappear supernaturally and had psychokenesis, right? These are all legends that have no doubt been built up over 400 years. For you to make your argument using this is kind of silly.
I'm waiting for the part where his mythic status was based on fabrication. The fact is Hanzo's legend grew for what he was able to do, not say. His feats still remain impressive.
All 3 had prior formal training, a starting point from which to work, something Ollie likely never had. I don't care what some manuscript hundreds of years old says, I call bunk unless you can show me some modern example of someone who became a hermit for years and them emerged and won the UFC. Never happened, never will.
Whether you chose to believe or not, that's on you, but until you can prove it, I could say the same thing.
Incidentally, Rich Franklin and Mirko Cro Cop got their starts in MMA/Kickboxing from movies and instructional videos. They eventually joined gyms/dojos but the point is they both were without teachers at some point.
I am not saying you can't learn forms and build a foundation from books working alone. BUT unless you can tell me you did all this without ever sparring and then actually used the skills you taught yourself in a real fight with spectacular results (ala Ollie) or point to an example of such that is actually verifiable by today's standards and not some stories that are hundreds of years old, I say your premise is false.
Trial-And-Error.
I got by butt handed to me on several occasions before I started to do the butt whooping myself. I'll admit it, but I can proudly say I never had a sensei to teach me proper form or how to execute a sweep or hip throw without a GI. Other aspects were common sense (like attempting submissions on a cement surface).
And you cannot have trial and error without someone to try out on. Again, I defy you to show me a person who has trained themselves, never having someone to train with, and then have their first fight with someone and defeat them in such a devastating style as Ollie displayed.
Trial-and-Error is impossible to avoid, but a warrior like Musashi didn't challenge amateurs. Most of his opponents were notorious swordsmen and martial artists with reputations -- the best of the best of Japan. So he didn't have 'warm ups' prior to fighting these top-tier warriors, nor did he have them when he participated in the great war as a teen.
Bottom line, he learned to fight on the island. If he trained himself, then his run-in with Slade must have been as a fight. We KNOW Slade is well trained in combat and for Ollie to have defeated Slade in their first fight with no formal training is absurd.
This is speculation, however. We don't know yet if Deathstroke was his mentor, or his rival.
The other option is that Slade trained Ollie and so was the person Ollie got to hone his skills on. Obviously at some point, they battled and the mask with the arrow thru it is obviously a remnant of that fight.
That is very possible, so I agree.
I guess we'll find out but to say that Ollie spent years on the island practicing all those fight moves on no one and then have a seasoned cambat veteran like Slade show up only to get his ass handed to him is ludicrous.
We'll see, but I don't necessarily disagree. Ollie's origin sort of has been written, per se. So, naturally, we can predict how Ollie acquired his combat prowless. Now whether Slade was a seasoned veteran when they met, that remains to be seen.
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