Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 4

[Scooter]

Yeah, I was referring to them too. In fact I specifically said Steve Reeves in my post. His hands don't look small, because he isn't freakishly big.

I don't see why hands are so important on film anyway. You hardly notice peoples hands unless you are speaking to them in person and they shake your hand.

It's just my personal preference.

 

[moviedoors]

Yeah, I was referring to them too. In fact I specifically said Steve Reeves in my post. His hands don't look small, because he isn't freakishly big.

I don't see why hands are so important on film anyway. You hardly notice peoples hands unless you are speaking to them in person and they shake your hand.

I wouldn't say that. I noticed Adrian Brody's hands in, coincidentally, Hollywoodland. Awesome hand acting.

My girl is always staring at people's hands in the movies too. I can't put on The Dark Knight without eventually hearing her comment on how disgusting Ledger's nails are.

 

[IamtheBatman]

None have appeared online. Although, we should get a glimpse of him in a couple of weeks (or whenever ComiCon is) because he will be promoting 'Immortals'.

So, three weeks from now not too long!

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Does filming begin August 6th? If so, Comic-Con weekend does seem a good possibility, though I'd imagine an EW cover first and a suit display at the Con. I'm not expecting much else MOS related aside from a few interview questions, next year should be good though.

 

[The Red Hood]

I wanna see a Superman who wants to be Superman. Not because it was the only option. I'd also rather not see a parent die. It's a macguffin to add faux drama and emotional depth.

Actually, Jonathan Kent's death in S:TM was inspired by the comics. It was the deaths of Jonathan and Martha Kent that inspired Superboy to move to Metropolis and become Superman, realizing that even with all his powers, he still couldn't save them. The Byrne reboot did away with this, but in doing so, removed a critical layer of Superman's character development (among many other things)

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Actually, Jonathan Kent's death in S:TM was inspired by the comics. It was the deaths of Jonathan and Martha Kent that inspired Superboy to move to Metropolis and become Superman, realizing that even with all his powers, he still couldn't save them. The Byrne reboot did away with this, but in doing so, removed a critical layer of Superman's character development (among many other things)

On Earth- One the Kents died of natural causes having adopted Kal-El when they were very old. It wasn't a tragic passing so much as it was the natural progression of life, he didn't die as a middle aged man as seen in Superman: TM and Smallville, etc. One of the only things I think done right when Superman got Byrned was that the Kents got to stick around.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

How do you portray that though? Ultimately the best superheroes are the ones that have a reason to be superheroes.

Him just waking up one day and seeing 'Okay, I'm going to save the world because I have all these powers' is going to be a little difficult to portray on screen if not impossible.
.

But why do people keep suggesting that unless he has some tragic loss, he can't have a 'reason' that pushes him.

As I've said a hundred times, you just have to have Clark encountering the struggles and suffering of the WORLD. It doesn't have to be someone he knows dying because that's just Clark Kent for you - he is driven by his empathy. His ability to really see and care about people because he sees so much more than anyone could know, can hear so much more.

I don't think it'd be difficult to show at all. Showing a guy who has the ability to be anywhere in the world in minutes, travelling, running into all sorts of disasters that he tries to help in secret, getting frustrated at the times when there have been casualties BECAUSE of his secrecy and it's limitations.

And then looking around at those casualties, listening in on corrupt politicians, seeing bribes through closed doors with his x-ray vision, seeing families trying to survive with illness caused by lack of nutrition because they are starving...

Wouldn't you do something about it? If you had the power, wouldn't you become a hero? What is so unrealistic about that?

In fact I'd say it's more realistic from my point of view, to dress in an outlandish costume and announche yourself to the world as a spectacle because your driven by the need to change the world, to be seen by everyone as a symbol for good, hope, peace etc.

How do you decide to become Superman because your father dies. Can someone explain the thought process because I don't really see it.

Superman is not Spiderman driven by the death of his Uncle Ben and his strong words 'with great power comes great responsibility'. He is not Bruce Wayne, driven by his hatred of the crime filled underworld that robbed him of his parents, of a happy childhood.

Superman is just a great man.

The world is not THAT cynical that people will find it difficult to accept that you can become a hero just because your a good person.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Edit: Double Post

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

But why do people keep suggesting that unless he has some tragic loss, he can't have a 'reason' that pushes him.

As I've said a hundred times, you just have to have Clark encountering the struggles and suffering of the WORLD. It doesn't have to be someone he knows dying because that's just Clark Kent for you - he is driven by his empathy. His ability to really see and care about people because he sees so much more than anyone could know, can hear so much more.

I don't think it'd be difficult to show at all. Showing a guy who has the ability to be anywhere in the world in minutes, travelling, running into all sorts of disasters that he tries to help in secret, getting frustrated at the times when there have been casualties BECAUSE of his secrecy and it's limitations.

And then looking around at those casualties, listening in on corrupt politicians, seeing bribes through closed doors with his x-ray vision, seeing families trying to survive with illness caused by lack of nutrition because they are starving...

Wouldn't you do something about it? If you had the power, wouldn't you become a hero? What is so unrealistic about that?

In fact I'd say it's more realistic from my point of view, to dress in an outlandish costume and announche yourself to the world as a spectacle because your driven by the need to change the world, to be seen by everyone as a symbol for good, hope, peace etc.

How do you decide to become Superman because your father dies. Can someone explain the thought process because I don't really see it.

Superman is not Spiderman driven by the death of his Uncle Ben and his strong words 'with great power comes great responsibility'. He is not Bruce Wayne, driven by his hatred of the crime filled underworld that robbed him of his parents, of a happy childhood.

Superman is just a great man.

The world is not THAT cynical that people will find it difficult to accept that you can become a hero just because your a good person.

 

[--Zero-Ethic--]

But why do people keep suggesting that unless he has some tragic loss, he can't have a 'reason' that pushes him.

As I've said a hundred times, you just have to have Clark encountering the struggles and suffering of the WORLD. It doesn't have to be someone he knows dying because that's just Clark Kent for you - he is driven by his empathy. His ability to really see and care about people because he sees so much more than anyone could know, can hear so much more.

I don't think it'd be difficult to show at all. Showing a guy who has the ability to be anywhere in the world in minutes, travelling, running into all sorts of disasters that he tries to help in secret, getting frustrated at the times when there have been casualties BECAUSE of his secrecy and it's limitations.

And then looking around at those casualties, listening in on corrupt politicians, seeing bribes through closed doors with his x-ray vision, seeing families trying to survive with illness caused by lack of nutrition because they are starving...

Wouldn't you do something about it? If you had the power, wouldn't you become a hero? What is so unrealistic about that?

In fact I'd say it's more realistic from my point of view, to dress in an outlandish costume and announche yourself to the world as a spectacle because your driven by the need to change the world, to be seen by everyone as a symbol for good, hope, peace etc.

How do you decide to become Superman because your father dies. Can someone explain the thought process because I don't really see it.

Superman is not Spiderman driven by the death of his Uncle Ben and his strong words 'with great power comes great responsibility'. He is not Bruce Wayne, driven by his hatred of the crime filled underworld that robbed him of his parents, of a happy childhood.

Superman is just a great man.

The world is not THAT cynical that people will find it difficult to accept that you can become a hero just because your a good person.

Perfect description of what Superman has been to me all the years I've known the character.
Every time someone talks about him "becoming a hero even though he doesn't want to be" or "being driven by tragic loss" I can't help but think
"Do you even know who Superman is?"

And furthermore, when people say it's dumb or unrealistic that he'd "just randomly become a hero" - that perplexes me.
If I were given abilities far beyond that of any normal man, helping people would be the most natural response in the world for me.
I try to help people when they're in a crappy situation anyway so it's the immediate response in my mind.
There's no struggle to come to terms with it, no disaster that has to occur in front of my eyes, we all know what people are capable of doing to others in the world.
If someone is drowning and I can swim, I'm not going to battle my inner demons to decide whether or not I should save them, or remember some relative who drowned when I was a kid.
You just help.

 

[sethypants]

But why do people keep suggesting that unless he has some tragic loss, he can't have a 'reason' that pushes him.

As I've said a hundred times, you just have to have Clark encountering the struggles and suffering of the WORLD. It doesn't have to be someone he knows dying because that's just Clark Kent for you - he is driven by his empathy. His ability to really see and care about people because he sees so much more than anyone could know, can hear so much more.

I don't think it'd be difficult to show at all. Showing a guy who has the ability to be anywhere in the world in minutes, travelling, running into all sorts of disasters that he tries to help in secret, getting frustrated at the times when there have been casualties BECAUSE of his secrecy and it's limitations.

And then looking around at those casualties, listening in on corrupt politicians, seeing bribes through closed doors with his x-ray vision, seeing families trying to survive with illness caused by lack of nutrition because they are starving...

Wouldn't you do something about it? If you had the power, wouldn't you become a hero? What is so unrealistic about that?

In fact I'd say it's more realistic from my point of view, to dress in an outlandish costume and announche yourself to the world as a spectacle because your driven by the need to change the world, to be seen by everyone as a symbol for good, hope, peace etc.

How do you decide to become Superman because your father dies. Can someone explain the thought process because I don't really see it.

Superman is not Spiderman driven by the death of his Uncle Ben and his strong words 'with great power comes great responsibility'. He is not Bruce Wayne, driven by his hatred of the crime filled underworld that robbed him of his parents, of a happy childhood.

Superman is just a great man.

The world is not THAT cynical that people will find it difficult to accept that you can become a hero just because your a good person.

IMO, its not really the death of johnathan kent that made him who he is. However, when you said Superman is just a great man signifying that he is innately good, even with those powers, not everyone would choose to go down the road of supes. To me it is the lessons from JOR EL and years and years of teachings from pa kent and ma kent that made him who he is, their guidance, their patience and their great heart.

So naturally, the death of pa kent would indeed spark a great deal of hurt, so much so that supes would want to do as much good as possible to make up for the guilt of not being able to save pa kent. But im not saying it should be the only way to go, but a the movie must show how clark learnt to be responsible from pa n ma kent.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

If someone is drowning and I can swim, I'm not going to battle my inner demons to decide whether or not I should save them, or remember some relative who drowned when I was a kid.
You just help.

Great Metaphor.

And I agree, you don't even have to have seen the horrible things in the world first hand in order to want to help if you have the power.

I just think it helps in terms of visualising that decision, if you show Clark experiencing that empathy first hand. It'd just make for some great cinema, and a Supes we have yet to experience on the big screen.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

IMO, its not really the death of johnathan kent that made him who he is. However, when you said Superman is just a great man signifying that he is innately good, even with those powers, not everyone would choose to go down the road of supes. To me it is the lessons from JOR EL and years and years of teachings from pa kent and ma kent that made him who he is, their guidance, their patience and their great heart.

So naturally, the death of pa kent would indeed spark a great deal of hurt, so much so that supes would want to do as much good as possible to make up for the guilt of not being able to save pa kent. But im not saying it should be the only way to go, but a the movie must show how clark learnt to be responsible from pa n ma kent.

I genuinely just don't like Guilt as a driving factor. It makes the reasons for becoming a hero into something negative, instead of what it should be - inspiring.

 

[Rust]

I strongly agree here. Superman is larger than life and above tragedy as well. Sure, the death of his foster-parents will surely affect thim, but never define what he becomes. That's another hero all together.
Ok, I liked Lois dying in STM which was pretty tragic and might've changed Superman's motivations somewhat.
But the bottomline is that Superman is driven by the good in him. That he has the power to do for humanity what it cannot do for itself. Donner already addressed this. It's pretty simple. It's his destiny and also his own choice.
In the reboot though, I'd like to see Clark donning the suit and taking action as a result of Zod threatening humanity.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Some people seem to have Superman confused with Batman.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

But the bottomline is that Superman is driven by the good in him. That he has the power to do for humanity what it cannot do for itself. Donner already addressed this. It's pretty simple. It's his destiny and also his own choice.
In the reboot though, I'd like to see Clark donning the suit and taking action as a result of Zod threatening humanity.

You know, I just realised that this is the most important thing in the movie to me. How he makes 'the decision'.

And I'm getting really fussy about it lol

No mention or even hint at the word destiny. Not driven by guilt or the need to make his dead adoptive parent proud. No 'have to' do it because someone is threatening to destroy the world.

Just have a man, a good man, who decides to do something extraordinary with the incredible gifts that he's been blessed with. Just because he wants to help people.

I don't mind how you visualise that. What is the 'spark' that ignites the audiences relatability with his decision. Because I recognise that we can't just have a series of monologue parts where he mulls it over. The way has to be kind of obvious in a way, but I'd also like it to be obviously something he's been thinking about for ages.

I.e. Like I said, the visual of seeing Clark travelling as a journo and seeing the atrocities caused by war and corruption first hand. Maybe even getting there too late and being driven by that frustration to come out of the shadows... Notice I said frustration. Not guilt. Not whining, feeling sorry for yourself, 'it's all my fault' emo guilt. But instead a 'gah, that person didn't have to die, I need to do something about this'.

I really think that if we have another film where he becomes Superman on the advice of Jor-el, or as a knee jerk reaction to his father dying, I'm going to cry.

It's just so unimaginative!

 

[ChickenScratch]

A bunch of great posts on this page. Superman is not at all driven by tragedy or some altruistic need to help. He grew up learning that a MAN lives up to his full potential. He serves as inspiration and an aspirational figure for everyone. More important than the lives he saves is the people (mostly the kids) who see him doing it. Or the ex criminals like Bibbo who can see this person truly lives up to his own potential and how much of an effect that has on the world.

There really doesn't have to be some big moment, but I'm sure when he puts on the uniform the first time will be portrayed as such. A person such as Clark would be on that path his whole life, like an athlete training for the Olympics. Or my dad who's a metallurgist, who there are a million science experiment stories from when he was a kid or stories of him fixing stuff. Why can't Clark just be a good guy who's helped people his whole life because he wants to and Superman is just a natural outgrowth of what he has always done.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I genuinely just don't like Guilt as a driving factor. It makes the reasons for becoming a hero into something negative, instead of what it should be - inspiring.

I don't want to turn this into a big discussion about Batman or Spider-Man, but I did want to take the time to briefly address this post, which struck me as coming off somewhat close-minded. Having said that, here is my response:

Well, that is entirely subjective. While I agree with you that Superman is essentially altruistic by nature, I don't view characters, such as Batman or Spider-Man, as less than heroic or inspiring simply because they were motivated by guilt or tragedy. At the core of all three characters is a desire to help people.

Moreover, human beings are very fallible creatures. Despite how we present ourselves, we all make mistakes; no one is perfect. In Spider-Man's story, you have a young man who clearly faltered (in selfishly letting a criminal go) prior to becoming a hero, which led to the tragic murder of his uncle. What defines him, though, is the choice he made to rise above that moment, to learn and grow from it, to become a better man.

Similarly, Bruce Wayne, although obviously motivated by the death of his parents in childhood, has, over time, become so much more than a character merely defined by grief. People often have a tendency to focus on Wayne's more outlandish behavior without looking at the dedication, discipline and sacrifice exemplified by his life and works. Aside from being a prodigy of sorts, he doesn't have any special powers/abilities; he is a self-made man, a good man.

Superman, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about getting hurt for the most part. He is nigh-invulnerable. So yes, you're right, a character with such other-worldly abilities probably doesn't need a life changing event that would inspire him to greatness. He was given a very precious gift. I would hope that anyone, regardless of how finite their level of compassion, would do as Superman does were they able to walk in his shoes. To do otherwise would be like the wealthiest of tycoons turning a blind eye to the impoverished.

 

[The Red Hood]

On Earth- One the Kents died of natural causes having adopted Kal-El when they were very old. It wasn't a tragic passing so much as it was the natural progression of life, he didn't die as a middle aged man as seen in Superman: TM and Smallville, etc. One of the only things I think done right when Superman got Byrned was that the Kents got to stick around.

You're incorrect.

Shortly after his graduation from high school, Superboy takes his foster parents on a holiday in the Caribbean where they contract a rare tropical disease. Though Superboy tries valiantly to save Martha and Jonathan, nothing cures their illness. With Clark by her side, Martha passes away. Just before he dies, Jonathan makes Clark promise to use his powers only for good. In mourning, Clark buries his parents.[43] Shortly thereafter, Superboy leaves Smallville, though not before throwing the townsfolk a giant farewell party that he tops off with a giant cake. Separately, Clark departs for Metropolis to attend Metropolis University.[44]

Source: Wikipedia article on Kal-El, Earth-1 Superboy/Superman.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Guilt is Spider-Man's drive.

Anger was Batman's drive.

Superman's, I believe stems from who he is, and how he's been raised.

He has powers, and he wants to go out in the world to do good. Not an exciting drive, but the most noble and I don't want it to change.

 

[fixxxer1022]

But this is an origin movie, supes had lots of struggle with himself while he was still learning to be a hero. much like how it was portrayed in smallville. the film should capture that, even the original superman movie, clark kent has his own doubts while he was still in smallville, blaming himself for not being able to save pa kent.

i believe the film is about his early years as "superman"... not the smallville years.

 

[BlueLantern]

I don't want the Kents to die. In fact it's an overused plot device.

I'd rather see him become a hero after seeing an individual like Zod can use his powers for totalitarian purposes and consequently use his powers to help. Better turn and a bit tragic.

After maybe spending his youth travelling the world to find more people like himself he finally does and then rejects him and his beliefs. Not angsty tragic but bittersweet. He didn't think he was human and ultimately his humanity is what shone through and he becomes the hero he was born to be. Not a Kryptonian. Not a man. But Superman.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Guilt is Spider-Man's drive.

Anger was Batman's drive.

Superman's, I believe stems from who he is, and how he's been raised.

He has powers, and he wants to go out in the world to do good. Not an exciting drive, but the most noble and I don't want it to change.

Well, Wayne and Parker's upbringing had quite a lot to do with them becoming heroes as well, I think. Wayne's parents were often showed as being very good, selfless people. And Parker was very much inspired by the man his Uncle Ben was.

Re: Superman, not to take anything away from the character, but I think it's a lot easier to become a superhero when you're invulnerable to bullets and such, when you can use your superspeed to rescue a victim in danger and be home for dinner in a flash of light, when you can soar to mountain heights.

If you're mere flesh and blood, like Bruce Wayne, there's so much more sacrifice involved I think. There's so much more at risk -- your very life, in fact. Aspiring to superhuman feats when you're just a man is inspiring to me. Regardless of how some try to portray Wayne, he remains a selfless character who ultimately wants to do good and succeeds at that. In that regard, he is no less noble than Superman.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I don't want the Kents to die. In fact it's an overused plot device.

I agree.

 

[terry78]

I think a lot of movies as of late tend to try and use the death of someone close or a personal trauma as the reason they turn into heroes. Iron Man happened because HE was the one that was almost killed, and saw the stuff going on firsthand. Superman, frankly is just too big to let that be the reason he turns.