Marvel WUSSING OUT and going back to fanboy comfort zone.

[roach]

As stated earlier this may be a wee bit unfair. Wanda has a history of mental illness after all, is bendis the only writer NOT allowed to revisit a characters past problems??

And there was foreshadowing in that magneto was brought back by wanda.

where was the foreshadowing at....cause in Excalibur they were leading to the discovery that Magneto was a figment of Xavier's imagination brought to life by his powers

 

[gildea]

where was the foreshadowing at....cause in Excalibur they were leading to the discovery that Magneto was a figment of Xavier's imagination brought to life by his powers

But what they were leading to and what actually happened are two different things. Again this would seem to be a criticism of bendis USING continuity (much like wandas past insanity).

Regardless it seems a bit unfair to criticise based on where another story may have been heading.

(has it been explicitly stated that what was going to happen, if so link? It doesn't have much bearing on my point but i have my fanboy curiosity )

 

[Doc Destruction]

No, there was zero leading up. Wanda went nuts a long time ago (just like Sue Richards did once), they resolved the storyline, the end. Now, if BMB had let it brew a little bit instead of dumping it in our laps, I'm willing to bet we would have been able to devour it a little smoother.

 

[gildea]

Magneto's ressurection counts IMO, it was caused by her and around before her eventual snap. Course i'm not saying it was perfect only that there was some (though i agree there should have been much more)

But as we say to each their own.

 

[roach]

But what they were leading to and what actually happened are two different things. Again this would seem to be a criticism of bendis USING continuity (much like wandas past insanity).

Regardless it seems a bit unfair to criticise based on where another story may have been heading.

(has it been explicitly stated that what was going to happen, if so link? It doesn't have much bearing on my point but i have my fanboy curiosity )

CC mentioned it on another site and the foreshadowing of the book pointed towards it. This was stuff that was already put in place before House of M which is why the book was cancelled.

My point is this Bendis spends too much time telling us stuff happened instead of showing stuff happened. If he came on to Avengers and started a regular run but slowly showed us that something wasnt right with Wanda which culminated in the title being Disassembled then I wouldnt have an issue with this.
Again same thing with the Illuminatii. Dont tell us that these guys have been meeting forever and then break them up because we dont care about them.
Marvel's writers today are too busy rewritting the past instead of making the future....and that is why they fail.

 

[gildea]

CC mentioned it on another site and the foreshadowing of the book pointed towards it. This was stuff that was already put in place before House of M which is why the book was cancelled.

A book is only ever cancalled because of low sales. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

My point is this Bendis spends too much time telling us stuff happened instead of showing stuff happened. If he came on to Avengers and started a regular run but slowly showed us that something wasnt right with Wanda which culminated in the title being Disassembled then I wouldnt have an issue with this.

From a story point of view does that work though? There was supposed to be some mystery behind the identity of the attacker, not criticising your suggestion but that would have missed the point of the way the story was written, it was all about confusion and chaos (similarly with identity crisis the atoms wife had issues in the past but she needed to be relatively clean for the reveal).

Again same thing with the Illuminatii. Dont tell us that these guys have been meeting forever and then break them up because we dont care about them. Marvel's writers today are too busy rewritting the past instead of making the future....and that is why they fail.

Dunno i got the impression the only met occaisionally and he did foreshadow in the alotted time in the avengers. I'm clutching at straws here though I accept this is a valid criticism of the illumanati concept. It just doesn't work for me because by its nature it is a secret organisation and you really couldn't have it work by constantly showing it in operation, as such i am happy to rely on my imagination.

btw depends on your definition of fail, sales wise they are still fine.

 

[roach]

A book is only ever cancalled because of low sales. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

Kind of hard to sell a book that was supposed to be about Magneto and Xavier rebuilding Genosha when the two main characters would be gone after House of M. Low sales didnt kill the book...House of M did that.

 

[gildea]

Kind of hard to sell a book that was supposed to be about Magneto and Xavier rebuilding Genosha when the two main characters would be gone after House of M. Low sales didnt kill the book...House of M did that.

If the book was selling in sufficient numbers then it wouldn't have mattered.

Comics are a business first and foremost.

 

[Elijya]

There's nothing wrong with the talking, but that's what indie comics do best. You got your indie comics in my superhero comics!

is that a reese's peices joke?

 

[Elijya]

My point is this Bendis spends too much time telling us stuff happened instead of showing stuff happened. If he came on to Avengers and started a regular run but slowly showed us that something wasnt right with Wanda which culminated in the title being Disassembled then I wouldnt have an issue with this.
Again same thing with the Illuminatii. Dont tell us that these guys have been meeting forever and then break them up because we dont care about them.
Marvel's writers today are too busy rewritting the past instead of making the future....and that is why they fail.

Hmm, you do have a point there. Most writers drop hints of things several issues (at least) before they deal with them, Bendis just kind of dives right in and flashes back to the foreshadowing while the event is actually occuring. It's not a very effective use of story planning. But, if nothing else, it probably makes it easier for newer readers who missed that mysterious man in the shadows in an issue two years ago, or whatever.

Fabian Nicieza, however, is the exact opposite, he uses TOO MUCH foreshadowing and mystery, to the point where the enjoyments gets squeezed out of the story.

 

[roach]

If the book was selling in sufficient numbers then it wouldn't have mattered.

Comics are a business first and foremost.

so then why cancel the book just to turn around and relaunch it if it was about sales

 

[Doc Destruction]

is that a reese's peices joke?

Yes, yes it is

 

[gildea]

so then why cancel the book just to turn around and relaunch it if it was about sales

Change of focus, hopefully to one that will ignite a readers interest and generate more sales. Ride on the coat tails of a mutant focused event (HOM) etc etc etc There are many many reasons.

Relaunches in themselves have the potential to generate that all important dollar in themselves as they are always seen as a jump on point.

Are you seriously suggesting if excalibur in its "genosha revival" form was generating amazing sales marvel would have allowed something to stop that? Sure HOM had decent sales but it's only 8 issues compared to a successful series like say astonishing x-men.

 

[roach]

Change of focus, hopefully to one that will ignite a readers interest and generate more sales. Ride on the coat tails of a mutant focused event (HOM) etc etc etc There are many many reasons.

Relaunches in themselves have the potential to generate that all important dollar in themselves as they are always seen as a jump on point.

Are you seriously suggesting if excalibur in its "genosha revival" form was generating amazing sales marvel would have allowed something to stop that? Sure HOM had decent sales but it's only 8 issues compared to a successful series like say astonishing x-men.

I'll admit is wasnt wowing anyone in sales but if the reason Excalibur was cancelled was because of sales why would you give the relaunch to the same peson on the old book???? If they were trying to get a push from HOM wouldnt the same be true of the old book. Sure HOM was only 8 issues but it was changing the aspects of the main characters...Excalibur as it existed couldnt survive if the two main characters Xavier and Magneto were gone missing after HOM.

 

[roach]

Hmm, you do have a point there. Most writers drop hints of things several issues (at least) before they deal with them, Bendis just kind of dives right in and flashes back to the foreshadowing while the event is actually occuring. It's not a very effective use of story planning. But, if nothing else, it probably makes it easier for newer readers who missed that mysterious man in the shadows in an issue two years ago, or whatever.

Fabian Nicieza, however, is the exact opposite, he uses TOO MUCH foreshadowing and mystery, to the point where the enjoyments gets squeezed out of the story.

and I am not the only one saying this. Had Bendis built up 1) Wanda's craziness and 2) the Avengers failure. then I could agree with his statements and probably read Nu Avengers. As it stands with Disassembelled Wanda going crazy seemed forced and out of left field....hell we had to see the moment in a flashback(first rule of Screenwriting is that flashbacks are lazy writing). Then we are supposed to believe the Avengers failed because a member went crazy?????? Avengers go crazy like X-men die and come back. You arent a real Avenger until you go crazy.

 

[Elijya]

When Bendis came on board, he should had a fill in arc against a villain of the week with a wanda-slowly-goiing-crazy subplot, which would lead to Disassembled. Would have worked 10 times better

 

[gildea]

I'll admit is wasnt wowing anyone in sales but if the reason Excalibur was cancelled was because of sales why would you give the relaunch to the same peson on the old book????

I don't really think it's too much of a stretch to say that Claremont + an X-men book should = sales !!!!

If they were trying to get a push from HOM wouldnt the same be true of the old book. Sure HOM was only 8 issues but it was changing the aspects of the main characters...Excalibur as it existed couldnt survive if the two main characters Xavier and Magneto were gone missing after HOM.

My point is if excalibur was wowing in sales house of m would have been changed so as to not alter it. The relaunch changed the focus of the book and as such it can reasonably be expected that HOM would give all mutant books a small bump due to it's ending.

To recap :
1.Excalibur = didn't achieve potential in genosha revival form (it was an expendable book therefore)
2.HOM = had an ending with major mutant potential (generates interest in mutants)
3.Relaunch Excalibur with the greatest mutant writer at a time when there is an interest in whats happening with the mutants, should generate more sales than it did previously.

 

[gildea]

When Bendis came on board, he should had a fill in arc against a villain of the week with a wanda-slowly-goiing-crazy subplot, which would lead to Disassembled. Would have worked 10 times better

Not if he wanted it to be a surprise though, which evidently he did.

 

[roach]

Not if he wanted it to be a surprise though, which evidently he did.

but it was a bad surprise

 

[roach]

I don't really think it's too much of a stretch to say that Claremont + an X-men book should = sales !!!!

then what happened to Excalibur????

 

[gildea]

then what happened to Excalibur????

good question, not everything works out as planned but Claremont has achieved more than enough credibility to be allowed more than one shot at it.

but it was a bad surprise

all in the eye of the beholder

 

[Varient]

I'm such a NOOB.
I believed by the Mid-90's that Sales didn't matter,.. that if the editors at Marvel were not feeling the character they would cancel the book.

Silly, simple, me.


(mild shame)

 

[roach]

I'm such a NOOB.
I believed by the Mid-90's that Sales didn't matter,.. that if the editors at Marvel were not feeling the character they would cancel the book.

Silly, simple, me.


(mild shame)

that could be true...why was Priest's Black Panther book on the guillotine every month....and The Crew was already being slated for cancellation before the first book came out?????

 

[Varient]

that could be true...why was Priest's Black Panther book on the guillotine every month....and The Crew was already being slated for cancellation before the first book came out?????

I remember how Priests Panther was doing better than a lot of mainstream,... yet it was always under threat of cancelation.

The crew was lated in the previews before issue TWO came out.

I really believe that the bottom line is not money,.. but how Marvel feels about the character.

 

[gildea]

I remember how Priests Panther was doing better than a lot of mainstream,... yet it was always under threat of cancelation.

The crew was lated in the previews before issue TWO came out.

I really believe that the bottom line is not money,.. but how Marvel feels about the character.

Right lets nip this silly paranoia in the bud right now.

Joe Q was a big panther fan, if it was down to feelings about the character it WOULD NOT have been cancelled by him :

In priests OWN words :
"There was a rumor going around that, shortly before the launch of BLACK PANTHER, Chris Claremont— Marvel's Director of Quality Control at the time— scoffed that the book wouldn't last six issues. The rumor had it that Marvel Knights honcho and PANTHER Editor Joe Quesada, angered and annoyed that a Marvel officer was prejudicing people against his book, stormed into Claremont's office, put a thousand dollars in cash on Claremont's desk, and demanded Claremont either shut up or put his money where his mouth was. I am told Claremont did not take Joe's bet."

and heres the link:

http://phonogram.us/comics/panther/frames/panther_death.htm


So can we stop this crazy paranoia surrounding black panther right now ?