Official Relationship Thread: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Erzengel]

I think it's also an age thing.

Teens fine? Early twenties? Maybe fine? Late twenties, early 30s? Probably not.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Shouldn't start a relationship by hiding things from her

If you really wanna use it, make it a joke. Just say 'now, I'm not being cheap but I do have this coupon'... I'd laugh if a guy did that.

Naw. Just bad practice. Especially for someone my age. Like Erz said, maybe as a teenager or young twenty-something it shows a kind of frugal behavior for someone that age -- that might look good. At my age it just comes off as tacky, especially during a 'honeymoon phase' of a relationship.

 

[steintym]

Using a coupon on a first date ... does seem a bit tacky.

I guess it also depends on the coupon. If its for free fries at McD's ... You probably don't have to worry about that second date.

 

[grout]

Soooo, it shallow if Optimus does not want to be in a relationship with a woman who is out of shape, but perfectly fine for a girl to exclude based on the same criteria?

Just challenging thinking about this for a second.

Do looks matter? Does size matter? Height? Build etc...

If not or if so, where do we draw the line?

We ALL know someone who insists that looks don't matter, but who spends time putting on makeup, picking the right clothes to wear etc...

What they are really trying to say is that physical shape does not matter. Easy for them, being its the one part of their appearance that actually takes a lot of discipline to get.

At least be consistent. If is ok for a girl to exclude a guy for being out of shape or otherwise physically unnatractive (short height, assymetrical facial features, small penis etc...), then that door swings both ways.

I really did not communicate my last quote to well. I was gettig at the overweight girl that wants to punish you for finding a fit girl attractive. For example she would say something like "you only think shes hot cause shes skinny". In other words your shallow because your only about looks. What I found funny was the girl I knew would turn around and slobber over some buff dude. Its okay for her but then want to bash you, i dont get it.. I guess its an insecurity thing but thats no reason to wanna bash other people. Im sure there are other guys in here that know that kinda girl.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Kind of side topic: I knew a guy in High School who played Tight End, so I'd say he was in shape. Not fat. White dude. He loved fat chicks. He wasn't fat, in fact he was very committed to Football and working out. I asked him about it and he just said "when I look at [a fat girl] that's just beautiful to me".

There are definitely people out there like that.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I really did not communicate my last quote to well. I was gettig at the overweight girl that wants to punish you for finding a fit girl attractive. For example she would say something like "you only think shes hot cause shes skinny". In other words your shallow because your only about looks. What I found funny was the girl I knew would turn around and slobber over some buff dude. Its okay for her but then want to bash you, i dont get it.. I guess its an insecurity thing but thats no reason to wanna bash other people. Im sure there are other guys in here that know that kinda girl.

It's never an "only" thing with me.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Kind of side topic: I knew a guy in High School who played Tight End, so I'd say he was in shape. Not fat. White dude. He loved fat chicks. He wasn't fat, in fact he was very committed to Football and working out. I asked him about it and he just said "when I look at [a fat girl] that's just beautiful to me".

There are definitely people out there like that.

I have a friend like that. I think mostly it's the big boobs

I mean, not obese or anything, but he dated girls bigger than me (and we hooked up a couple of times).

He just said he found relationships with bigger women better because they are more appreciative, loyal and better in bed (specifically more willing to give BJ's). He still finds them sexy even if some men don't, but because a lot of men don't they tend to be really receptive to his affections.

I never knew how to take that really, but it is what it is.

 

[grout]

I have a friend like that. I think mostly it's the big boobs

I mean, not obese or anything, but he dated girls bigger than me (and we hooked up a couple of times).

He just said he found relationships with bigger women better because they are more appreciative, loyal and better in bed (specifically more willing to give BJ's). He still finds them sexy even if some men don't, but because a lot of men don't they tend to be really receptive to his affections.

I never knew how to take that really, but it is what it is.

hmm, maybe i should look into this myself.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I have a friend like that. I think mostly it's the big boobs

I mean, not obese or anything, but he dated girls bigger than me (and we hooked up a couple of times).

He just said he found relationships with bigger women better because they are more appreciative, loyal and better in bed (specifically more willing to give BJ's). He still finds them sexy even if some men don't, but because a lot of men don't they tend to be really receptive to his affections.

I never knew how to take that really, but it is what it is.

The best method I have for getting [BLACKOUT]BJs is going down on them first.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[grout]

The best method I have for getting [BLACKOUT]BJs is going down on them first.[/BLACKOUT]

That a boy! its all about correct exchange

 

[Anubis]

It's true. Cuz nobody wants to look like a selfish ass.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

It's true. Cuz nobody wants to look like a selfish ass.

Yeah, I usually don't even have to ask after I [BLACKOUT]go down on them. They're just ready to do it when I stand up.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Anita18]

Kind of side topic: I knew a guy in High School who played Tight End, so I'd say he was in shape. Not fat. White dude. He loved fat chicks. He wasn't fat, in fact he was very committed to Football and working out. I asked him about it and he just said "when I look at [a fat girl] that's just beautiful to me".

There are definitely people out there like that.

Yeah my coworker is a really pretty (short and curvy and looks like an Asian Olivia Munn) and she looooves the short fat guys. She told me that when she saw George in Seinfeld she was like There are some folks that really do buck the mainstream trend!

It's true. Cuz nobody wants to look like a selfish ass.

Some guys actually go down there without expecting anything in return, and prefer it to sticking things in a hole.

 

[The Guard]

More cushion for the pushin.

There's a reason that's a saying.

 

[Erzengel]

and looks like an Asian Olivia Munn

Olivia Munn is Asian. t:

 

[grout]

Yeah my coworker is a really pretty (short and curvy and looks like an Asian Olivia Munn) and she looooves the short fat guys. She told me that when she saw George in Seinfeld she was like There are some folks that really do buck the mainstream trend!


Some guys actually go down there without expecting anything in return, and prefer it to sticking things in a hole.

My dream girl! Always had a thing for her

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Yeah my coworker is a really pretty (short and curvy and looks like an Asian Olivia Munn) and she looooves the short fat guys. She told me that when she saw George in Seinfeld she was like There are some folks that really do buck the mainstream trend!

Funny aside, by numbers George got the most action on the show.

 

[Anita18]

Olivia Munn is Asian. t:

More Asian. Olivia Munn is one of those half-Asians where you can't place her ethnicity exactly, but you find out and then it's obvious.

 

[Erzengel]

Well I knew she was Asian off the bat. Takes a half breed to notice another half breed.

Unless you mean what specific type of Asian she is.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Her text messages to Chris Pine were pretty hot.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Guys. Thanks a lot for taking your time to comment and post extensively on this. I really appreciate your response, most of which I've actually seriously considered. Some I don't agree with. But yeah. Again. Thanks.

I'd have responded sooner but again, there were complications around the bulletin boards here. Regardless, I'll address some of the issues...

theShape - yes, it's the same girl who was talking previously about how she needed pot to express herself and feel happy. I'm sorry but I'm still glad I talked her out of it. It's okay if she's doing it recreationally, not when she's approaching it as though it were a neccessity to a) be socially "fun" and b) feel good.

amazingfantasy15 - I appreciate your honesty but the truth is, I do love her unconditionally. We all have those areas where we don't want our partners to go to -- those "no-zones" and she's got a fair amount of hers (no drinking, no foul-language, no talking to certain people she doesn't like me to talk to) And well I do comply to those. But that's not the point. Smoking up isn't something I particularly like, it's one of the reasons why I refused to go out with this other girl who was into that in the first place, because I knew that down the line we'd have too different ideas of what constitutes as "fun" and this girl knew that. She was never into pot to begin with so when she started to use it I asked her not to. And she did it anyway even knowing how much uncomfortable I was with it, and she was like "I need to do this and I need you to know that I'm doing this." And I did. If it were anyone else I'd tell her to go away then and there because of being so persistent on something I didn't like. But I didn't. Like I told her friend, this girl has been an exception to my many convoluted "rules about meeting people" since day one. I love how much alive she and about so many things we can relate to. I do have my reasons and I'm not the one in doubt. I love how caring she gets , how much she cares about me, and a whole list of other things it's not that complicated. So when I see she's throwing those away and giving into her fears -- yeah it gets stressful and hurtful. But at the end of the day, yes. If she has doubts. Then she has doubts.

TheGuard -- Thank you so much for being so ... well... damn articulate about it! It actually helped. Yes. I think I have been disrespectful regarding the things I put her through -- she doesn't need to make such a drastic decision between me and her family right away, for all she knows I might not be the one for her at all. Usually we wait a while before letting our parents know because that's how it is here -- conservative bias. They think I'm outright lying. And yes they do have superficial standards. Some of which would indeed be impossible for me to reach. But you understand why they become more pronounced insecurities on my end right? Rejection after rejection, for things I have either failed to change about myself, or cannot altogether -- that takes its toll. These are the two instances that I can think of that I had lost my patience. Regardless of that, I think she's done a lot to forgive me there. But you're right. I do need to respect what she says. One of which is to let her make a decision and not force anything on her. That alone stops me from just walking up to her now, holding her hand, and telling her how she's really not ready for a relationship with me right now at all. That it doesn't have to be now. That we can wait when she's ready for it. That I'm not really in a rush to get involved with anyone else anyway right now. The only reason I'm not doing that is because... well... she wants to make that decision herself because she feels that everyone is feeding her thoughts and forcing her to feel one way or the other.

This week. She's one of those students who takes 6 courses her semester and handles it really well. Juggles work. And manages to look beautiful and keep her optimism up (that's another thing I love about her amz15 ) this semester she took a break from it all and said she needed some time to just have fun and let herself go. One of it included joining up for dance-classes. When she approached her dad for it he took a day to consider it then came back with a sharp denial saying how "dancing" isn't really the sort of thing "decent girls in our society involve themselves in." He insisted that there would be "boys there. You'd have to get physical." And that she "try violin instead. Music. Behind the scenes." She's always been good with the violin.

She needed to tell him because a) she tells her parents everything, and b) because she needed the money for the classes. Her best friends are being involved in the class, her roommates, she really wanted this.

Going back to me. She feels as though she isn't the one deciding what's important in her life. And she told me the other day that if she does transfer out it should be on her coniditions. Got mad when I told her not to apply to a mediocre college in Singapore when she can easily transfer to Berkeley with her credentials.

I do have insecurities. I'm dealing with them. We all do. It takes time. It doesn't help when you start getting afraid that you're going to lose the people you care about because of those same insecurities. I don't like being stuck in Bangladesh in a private college when I had really good acceptance letters to places like Amhearst and Dartmouth. I don't like the fact that I'm stuck here because my folks really couldn't afford it back then and the finaid I had gotten wasn't enough to cover the expenses. I don't like it that I messed up my last year in High School pursuing Mathematics and getting a bad grade in it when my strength lay in Literature and Law, and that bad-grade later coming back to make sure I didn't get a place in Princeton. I don't like it that I messed up because I had applied early to Ivy League colleges and then they put me on a waiting list, during which my grades fell, and they dropped me. I don't like that her mother brought up the fact that unless her guy is an Ivy League graduate he isn't good enough.

Especially when she didn't know that bit about me.

But yes. At the end of the day. It is up to her. Thing is, there will always be someone better, especially someone better than me, out there, for her. The decision as to whether or not I'm good enough is hers and I guess I was for a while back there. It was amazing. It was beautiful. I was actually happy after a long time and so was she. I was actually hopeful again. I was able to make someone else happy by just being me. I was finally comfortable with the idea that know what? It doesn't really hurt bein the nice guy, that maybe all those rules about alpha-and-beta don't apply to the right person. That it's okay to be more expressive, even if the expression is terrible, as long as i'm being true to it. It's sappy I know but hey. I was there. AND what confounds me is that I'd still go back and thank her for giving me that even if this doesn't work out.

I'm respect her wishes and giving her all the space she wants to. And I know where this will go. She's someone who needs proximity. I've seen her doubts removed when I'm there so she's removing me completely. She'll agree with her parents. In the end. But yes. It's hers to make.

Anita -- I don't think I can thank you enough for your response. I could really relate to a lot of them and I actually understand where you're coming from.

I messed up really bad. I did. I know i did. I felt guilty over that incident for over a year and was developing bad symptoms from it. I started to hate myself because what i did is exactly the sort of thing I look down on others when they do it. I was just another testosterone filled ******* who was physically abusive of women and i hated that.

a few of my friends suggested that she was over-reacting to justify her own reasons of letting me go but that doesn't mean anything. They were wrong. I really was at fault. And so I'd backed off and backed away. She came around. She forgave me. She said that she always needed a friend and that she actually trusted me and that what I did was to try to help her calm down. She was jittery that day. She was getting incoherent and crying about how she hated being there and saying how she'd prefer to just stop feeling altogether and just die away. I felt like I needed to calm her down. I never meant to make her feel that way.

I got impatient and scared and I acted like a dumbass. That happened a year back. Everything moved on. We got on better terms. I still don't know how much of that self-hate I've lost but yeah. She insists that I hate myself way too much for my own good.

This incident, regarding the whole "getting impatient and raising my voice in public" thing --- I still don't know if she overreacted or not. Yes. I was being impatient. But I still don't know if I was that offensive, it's not like I used profanity, I simply got impatient and told her to "LETS GO!" And then I didn't. I waited. We didn't go. I do feel bad because she interpreted that with what happened before and said that it came from the same impulse. And the honest truth is -- it did! And well, so I apologised. I did something she liked. I gave her a box of her favourite brownies and a note in French even though I have no idea how to speak in French and all of it I know I got off being good friends to her (she's learning French you see... ) Thing is... yeah. I think it worked. I think it worked before I did that because after almost a week of no-contact she started calling and reminding me of class because that's the only place we can meet without her dad finding out. And she kept on being insistent.

I was ready to be yelled at today and she instead was too-nice to me. I don't know what to think anymore.

She likes me. She just doesn't like me enough. Maybe. I don't know if I should just stop thinking about her right now and just focus on something else; not sure if I should just let those insecurities define me or try again to overcome them. Or if I don't know, maybe she's just trying to string it along one last time. Last week she was adamant on finding reasons to dislike me. Because she really does think she can do better than me. And well, logistically speaking, yeah she can. Whiter. Richer. Ivy-League graduate. Loads of those out there.

Maybe amazingfantasy15 is right and that I really am selfish here. But I do know that I love her. I know that. I feel like the one who's willing to take those leaps and just be brave about everything and I feel as though no one else is going to even bother trying. My first gut-reaction today was that "oh boy, here's to being friendzoned again" then it turned out to be "she's going to play it nice now, and show me that she's there but I'll still not get her completely, like she would force me to start disliking her instead." Being consciously "unresponsive." I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been there. And regarding the body issues Anita, that's exactly what she told me about herself. And I just don't think she believes that she's that much attracted to me to tell me that. I mean she did when we were together but yeah. She doesn't now.

I'm forgettable

(Erz - yeah, I'm still doing the "down on my luck" thing that "doesn't win points with anyone" but yeah. You saw me man. I wasn't doing that a while back.)

Anyway. This was a long post. It would've been longer had I answered each point in quotes. Regardless. Thanks guys. I'm bearing myself out here completely. I appreciate the time you're giving responding to that.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Last note -- our mutual friend thinks it's absolutely wrong of me to even consider giving up now when she's finally coming around. That whatever "space" I give her should be "illusions of space" not "Actual space."

I get that she can't talk to me over the phone because of her dad. So we just text. I get that we can't go out right away because of her dad. So we're just hanging around school. I get that we can't be intimate for the time being because of her dad. But. I don't know. I'd get all of that. I'd understand all of it and accept all of those conditions in a heartbeat it she just ... I don't know, admitted that she felt something back instead of just taking her time to figure everything out. Does this happen to everyone?

I fear I'm going to lose her again. And what's even worse is that I'm certain that she's going to come back again and proclaim her undying stick-togetherness (again) but I honestly don't think I'll have anything to give back then. I haven't told her this yet. Because well why the **** would I if it hasn't happened yet?

One of her essays from last week, she was comparing her confusion to furniture. Don't laugh. It's not funny. "Why fill in an entire room with furniture that you are not satisfied with years from now, isn't it better to just live in an empty room? But do I want to live in an empty room forever? I'm just 21. Is it so wrong for me to have some doubts?"

It honestly isn't. But I just got really scared and couldn't tell her that right away. Because well. Yeah. she's right. Maybe it is better to just live in an empty room. Maybe I should've been the one writing that.

I had roles against dating poets and lit-majors. I should've ****ing stuck to it. Damn exception.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

And no. **** you. I do love her. Unconditionally so. Because it's HER. There are too many reasons for me to reiterate them here. We were friends first before we got intimate. That should tell you something.

 

[Erzengel]

I said this to you before, she has to be willing to go to bat for you. And it doesn't sound like she has done anything by what you've been saying.

You say that there should be someone out there better for her, but let me tell you something, there is someone out there better than her for you.

Someone who isn't afraid to commit, someone who isn't wishy washy with her feelings. I know you have feelings for her, that might make you blind to this, but there's someone out there better.

You do what you can. You talk to her doing school and tell her what you need to tell her, but after that, she has to make that decision. And if she doesn't want to make that decision for you, then maybe you shouldn't bother with her.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

yeah...

and... i dunno so what if she really doesn't love me all that much right? you can't just force people to feel strongly for you that doesn't happen. if she doesn't then she doesn't.

i'm just still trying to grasp that idea better. and failing. i mean, right now it feels as though "omg if this girl doesn't like me back im sure no one else ever will" but i can't do that to myself. just as she came in someone else will and it'll be better then. It's difficult because, well she did really love me that's one of the reasons why she went and told her parents about me to begin with. Because she was serious. And then they started to make her doubt. Emotions, I've always said it, need to be nurtured. Otherwise they'd wither away. I told her that several times and she just disagrees.

And right now. It's like with all that talk about space and time and continuums I just can't seem to find the courage to go up to her anymore. Or sent her a text. But I did so anyway today and it felt just like having to ask her out again in the beginning. And I hated that. I hated being back there. But she responded with a positive and "thanked" me but yeah.

Maybe she does need time to nurture it. Like you said. There is a period "After that" when she'll have to make a decision. It just feels wrong because what that asks of me is to remain vulnerable and emotionally attached -- and nurture those emotions on my end -- until she makes up her mind. And evidence and paranoia points out to it being no.

I hope my paranoia is wrong but yeah that's what it feels like right now. And... well yes if she does say no right? Nothing wrong there. Nothing "evil" on her part to get all vengeful over. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work. That's how you be an adult about it right?