Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - Part 18

[KillerMcQueen]

No it definitely needs 2 films. Even GDT understood that. Hobbit's page count is deceptively small. Tolkien used a lot of paraphrasing and summarising to condense a large story into a small page count that children could easily digest. But any film adaption has to unravel and expand Tolkien's compact summarizing and paraphrasing in the Hobbit book. And the book has very little characterization besides Bilbo which is another thing an adaption has to expand.

To fit it all into one film it would take some large sacrifices in either characterization or scenes and set pieces from the book. And Im not convinced too little is any better than too much.

Two 120-150 minute films was always the best option.

Not to mention, the LOTR films aren't the best example of a film fitting all of the books content into three films, they did a spectacular job, don't get me wrong, and I love them, but they had to cut a huge amount of content from the books to even fit them into three three hour films. I do think it'd be cool to see a two film cut of The Hobbit.

 

[Octoberist]

My issue with The Hobbit movies is that it feels like they're just buying time with the pacing per movie.

 

[vanson]

Mentions several times his disdain for Tolkien fans and how he really doesn't give a damn about his books.

Yeah that's not cool.. I mean I get that actors have different reasons for joining a project (besides the material), like money or to work with specific people. But you dont have to be a *****e and say stuff like that..

 

[Consona]

The Desolation of Smaug though I think in the books, doesnt that refer to all the desolated land around the mountain?

It does.

 

[spider-neil]

No it definitely needs 2 films. Even GDT understood that. Hobbit's page count is deceptively small. Tolkien used a lot of paraphrasing and summarising to condense a large story into a small page count that children could easily digest. But any film adaption has to unravel and expand Tolkien's compact summarizing and paraphrasing in the Hobbit book. And the book has very little characterization besides Bilbo which is another thing an adaption has to expand.

To fit it all into one film it would take some large sacrifices in either characterization or scenes and set pieces from the book. And Im not convinced too little is any better than too much.

Two 120-150 minute films was always the best option.

I'd prefer one 3 hour to two 120-150 movies. Strip it down to the absolute bare bones and make it move at a brisk pace despite the excessive running time.
I was bored to tears in all three Hobbit movies. Wont watch them again.

I remember Hobbit being brisk and short not ponderous and a chore.

 

[sabetoonth]

I'd prefer one 3 hour to two 120-150 movies. Strip it down to the absolute bare bones and make it move at a brisk pace despite the excessive running time.
I was bored to tears in all three Hobbit movies. Wont watch them again.

I remember Hobbit being brisk and short not ponderous and a chore.

TBH, I had the opposite feeling about the book last time I read it about two years ago.

I even remember sharing that in here and having a few folks get on me about why I even like it lol. Like the story, not terribly fond of the way Tolkien told it though.

 

[sueb1863]

Tauriel and tons of Legolas stuff was GDT's idea?

Has anybody ever figured out how much screentime Bilbo actually has in these movies?

 

[Supernova]

Is anybody really shocked at Jackson's comments? I remember him saying in interviews he felt obligated to take the helm when del Toro jumped ship. Surely the end quality overall was not that very good but still enjoyable from a fun adventure tale angle. My only complaint is there was way too much cgi orcs and so many shots where the screen was glazed like a hallmark movie and made the films look very cheap.

on a side note even if they pushed production back a year the studio still would have wanted this stretched out to 3 films and I highly doubt the stories and pacing issues would have been remedied just because Jackson had more time.

 

[Vartha]

Is anybody really shocked at Jackson's comments? I remember him saying in interviews he felt obligated to take the helm when del Toro jumped ship. Surely the end quality overall was not that very good but still enjoyable from a fun adventure tale angle. My only complaint is there was way too much cgi orcs and so many shots where the screen was glazed like a hallmark movie and made the films look very cheap.

on a side note even if they pushed production back a year the studio still would have wanted this stretched out to 3 films and I highly doubt the stories and pacing issues would have been remedied just because Jackson had more time.

About him Winging it? Not really. I wish they could have planned better, or for that matter Del didn't step down.
I swear PJ was quoted awhile ago saying he was winging it in places. Just not sure if it WAS during the filming of Bofa or earlier

 

[Marvolo]

About him Winging it? Not really. I wish they could have planned better, or for that matter Del didn't step down.
I swear PJ was quoted awhile ago saying he was winging it in places. Just not sure if it WAS during the filming of Bofa or earlier

It was during block 3 during spring/summer of 2012. They were trying to shoot the battle of the five armies for what was then film 2 but they had no idea what to shoot, because the battle wasn't planned. So Andy serkis and second unit were shooting vague battle elements of a few stuntman against green screen. In "The Gathering Clouds" on Disc 11 of the appendices Andy and his first assistant and Peter talk about how no one knew what they were supposed to be shooting and they had no story boards or script or plan at all for the battle because he was too busy keeping everything else going to stop and figure out the battle. Jackson says that they were having to send the crews and actors on extended lunch breaks just so he could figure out what they needed to shoot that day. At the end of every night he would design a set. Over night the builders would build the set and paint it. And they were having to shoot on sets with wet paint because the sets were only getting finished like an hour before crew call that morning. Then at the end of that day that set would be torn down, Jackson would design another Erebor set, and they'd build it over night and so on and so on day after day after day. So finally he just went to the studio and told them that he didn't know what the hell he was doing with the battle and there was no way it could be done in block 3 in 2012 so the studio allowed him to move the battle production all the way out to spring/summer of 2013. This gave him the breathing room to finish everything else he had to finish in block 3. And it gave him time to actually prep to shoot the battle itself during pickups.

Of course then 2 films became 3 films which added more to pickups and made the battle an even bigger affair which essentially put him in a similar boat during pickups that he was in during block 3.

 

[dark_b]

anyone remembers the time when Jackson and WB had problems making the movie in New Zeland? anyone remember how many months Del Toro had to wait before he could start directing? how hard it was for him to leave Hobbit?

so many problems and now we find out that Jackson was winging it?dear lord

 

[Drizzle]

He wasn't winging it for the whole thing, but it's clear that the end of Desolation of Smaug (dwarves vs. Smaug) and large portions of The Battle of Five Armies were rush jobs.

I still think that An Unexpected Journey was well made and still managed to capture the feel of the LOTR trilogy, and Bilbo's confrontation with Smaug in DOS is one of the best scenes in the whole trilogy. The good far outweighs the bad here.

 

[DigificWriter]

The Internet, as per usual, has mistaken candor for negativity and blown Jackson's comments completely out of proportion. * sigh *

 

[dark_b]

He wasn't winging it for the whole thing, but it's clear that the end of Desolation of Smaug (dwarves vs. Smaug) and large portions of The Battle of Five Armies were rush jobs.

I still think that An Unexpected Journey was well made and still managed to capture the feel of the LOTR trilogy, and Bilbo's confrontation with Smaug in DOS is one of the best scenes in the whole trilogy. The good far outweighs the bad here.

thats obvious. like you wrotte the first movie was well made.

 

[matrix_ghost]

You know as much as i admire the honesty coming from everyone from PJ to the cast and crew, here is the thing.

Why couldn't PJ persuade WB to push back the movies ?
Seriously if James Cameron can make Fox of all studios wait for Avatar 2-3-4 then surely WB would've bene more lenient. WB is a studio that helps filmmakers that have made them a crap load of cash. Hell look at the Wachowski's. They basically lost all the good will they had at WB but the fact that the matrix movies made so much movie gave them carte blanche.

And PJ couldn't even achieve this ?? Despite the LOTR movies??

 

[Tacit Ronin]

They should've gotten someone else to direct. Matt Reeves?

 

[dark_b]

i think Del Toro was perfect.

 

[Marvolo]

We get to glimpse some of GDT's designs for the Mirkwood elves and Thranduil in the appendices of BOTFA and it was hard core oriental. Imperial Chinese type stuff. At one point GDT even wanted to give Thranduil facial tattoos and markings similar to the elves in Hellboy 2. It's an interesting look and the deep reds in Thranduil's clothes and throne room would have been pretty and would have been striking but everything about it would have clashed with the LOTR elves.

 

[Drizzle]

Yeah, most of Del Toro's designs would have been too outlandish even for Middle Earth. I mean, look at the Smaug design when Del Toro was still slated to direct:

Having said that, some of the designs in the final films do look very Del Toro-esque but they aren't as extreme. Namely the rock giants, Beorn, and a few of the dwarves.

 

[Marvolo]

And one of the dwarves was said to have a steampunk esque mechanical helmet when GDT was on the project. That's been known for a while, but it's one of the most telling little tidbits. GDT's narrative might have been more tight, but his designs were very much "GDT" and that's just the ones we know about. I just don't think some Tolkien fans would have liked his visual take on Tolkien's world any more than they like Peter's take on the story.

 

[Supernova]

Yeah, most of Del Toro's designs would have been too outlandish even for Middle Earth. I mean, look at the Smaug design when Del Toro was still slated to direct:

Having said that, some of the designs in the final films do look very Del Toro-esque but they aren't as extreme. Namely the rock giants, Beorn, and a few of the dwarves.

that's a really cool and interesting design and would have been perfect if they took the final smaug mouth and skin color and added that to the above and would have been very memorable. I see a lot of shots in all 3 hobbit films that you can tell were all del toro especially the lighting in the goblin caves.

It is a shame though del toro couldn't wait instead of doing something way worse in pacific rim.

 

[Lord]

Del Toro's career could have gotten a big boost with the hobbit, a shame he didn't stay.

 

[Marvolo]

Now that Ive seen Billy Connelly be such a *****e towards Tolkien and his stories and the fans Im glad Jackson replaced him with cgi. The knowledge that Conelly had to spend hours in the make-up chair, hours on a green barrel, and hours listening to "nerds" that irritate him "soooo much" and was then replaced by cgi puts a big smile on my face.

 

[Greens]

It doesn't put a smile on my face because I immediately noticed something was off.

Then again, a lot of things were off so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

 

[C. Lee]

Now that Ive seen Billy Connelly be such a *****e towards Tolkien and his stories and the fans Im glad Jackson replaced him with cgi. The knowledge that Conelly had to spend hours in the make-up chair, hours on a green barrel, and hours listening to "nerds" that irritate him "soooo much" and was then replaced by cgi puts a big smile on my face.

Agreed. After watching all the extras from all three movies and seeing so many of the actors and production crew talk about reading the HOBBIT as a child and loving everything about Tolkien's works.....and then Connolly walks on set and starts complaining about Tolkien nerds....it's just a shame they didn't replace him voice and all.