BvS Skepticism Regarding the Film - Part 9

[rockandrollsoul]

Just as there are people emotionally invested in this movie being good, there are people emotionally invested in it being bad. Personally, I'd almost always rather the haters be disappointed in this cynical world we live in.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

So apparently some fairly famous YouTube critic named Grace addressed the bias against this film. I'm glad somebody is finally calling it out.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Why this movie though? Did you say that for Star Wars?

Na, but I probably would have if I'd been on Star Wars forums and came across that kind of comment. I just think some people might need to take a step back from all this sometimes.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's amazing how much certain users in this section focus on the negativity. If you're excited that's great, I am as well, but people are allowed to be skeptical and have trepidations about the film without there being some sort of conspiracy afoot. I truly don't believe there are as many "haters" out there as you some of you think.

 

[obredaan]

Why this movie though? Did you say that for Star Wars?

Over at CBM, I remember a significant number of posters hoping that TFA would fail simply because the film was attached to Disney and Disney is attached to Marvel. This happens with all mega franchises. When Avengers was about to be released I remember many wanted it to fail cause Dark Knight Rises was coming out after. Deadpool had its detractors and now BvS.

Don't get too worked up over it. None of the detractors will have any effect on BvS cause they make up basically 1% of the GA. Word of mouth once the film is released will be the deal breaker.

 

[rogbngp]

So apparently some fairly famous YouTube critic named Grace addressed the bias against this film. I'm glad somebody is finally calling it out.

Mmm, yes and no. She still annoyed me by rushing to a conclusion that WB has somehow not done it's research beforehand re: the decision to beginning shooting JL 1 April 10th, basically right on the heels of the release of BvS. I would be shocked if WB hasn't held secret test screenings for BvS and focus-grouped it already. I'm sure they know what they have by now. Grace's narrative/interpetation that WB is doing it reactively in some sort of macho doubling down mode because of the rumor that McWeeny started sounds silly to me. WB has far too much at stake to behave childishly here. They would do make a decision like that carefully and deliberately, based on the best possible market research. If I had to make a bet on it, I think the decision to begin shooting JL Part 1 in April (with Snyder at the helm) would most likely reflect confidence that they have a solid winner in BvS, and the direction that they have taken overall in mapping out the DCEU's master plan.

 

[Visualiza]

Pardon my French but this is so ****ing stupid. With all due respect of course. Stop using buzzwords and please get this **** out of here

I'm pointing that there is prejudice towards this film in particular because some seem to think there isn't. Why does someone want THIS film to be the sacrificial lamb to teach everyone a lesson? The Star Wars emotional investment was ten fold. So why not that? What about MCU movies like Avengers? There's plenty of emotional investment in those too.

Anyway but yea hope this film fails because the people need to be taught a lesson. Derp.

The point is that your response was a tone deaf deflection. Tone deaf in the sense that not only are you ignoring the fact that he said "part of me...", which should tell you that he's more interested in seeing the movie succeed, but your first question was answered before it was asked. The second is just irrelevant deflection; that's like asking someone who feeds stray cats "Why don't you feed stray dogs too? How about pigeons? What makes them different!?"

I don't think as many people want this movie to fail as much as some of you are letting on. There is no scenario where this movie being both good and successful is a negative for anybody; it's a win-win for all of us in that case. The fans (and the corrosive stans among them) will have their wishes and hopes validated, while those of us that are skeptical will be pleasantly surprised. It doesn't get much better than that, and to those of you who honestly believe that people are losing sleep just praying for this movie to fail, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Flint Marko]

Visualiza bringing some sense to this whole thing. Like water in a desert.

 

[Val_Zod]

The point is that your response was a tone deaf deflection. Tone deaf in the sense that not only are you ignoring the fact that he said "part of me...", which should tell you that he's more interested in seeing the movie succeed, but your first question was answered before it was asked. The second is just irrelevant deflection; that's like asking someone who feeds stray cats "Why don't you feed stray dogs too? How about pigeons? What makes them different!?"

I don't think as many people want this movie to fail as much as some of you are letting on. There is no scenario where this movie being both good and successful is a negative for anybody; it's a win-win for all of us in that case. The fans (and the corrosive stans among them) will have their wishes and hopes validated, while those of us that are skeptical will be pleasantly surprised. It doesn't get much better than that, and to those of you who honestly believe that people are losing sleep just praying for this movie to fail, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

That is major confirmation bias on your part. Not everyone, but many have voiced displeasure on the creative choices on the film, without taking major time to consider the reasons behind it. There are people who actively want this film to fail, or atleast they make it out to be simply for reasons like "Ben Affleck is Batman" or "They're rushing to the JL."

That rhetoric does and in abundance exist. BvS is not the first film to get that. Whether its justified in the end "like the film being a turkey", many have made it their prerogative to hope for the failure of the DCEU. I'm lucky I haven't encountered anyone on the Hype boards that feels this way, but lets not live in a bubble that everyone has rational skepticism on the film and hopes to be proven wrong. Some people take pleasure at having their skepticism validated.

BvS has extremes from both ends of the argument, and that's a fact.

 

[Flint Marko]

I really hope we're not confusing honest skepticism and understandable trepidations of certain creative decisions as outright hatred, or a desire to see the movie fail.

 

[AbradolfLincler]

Not aimed at you in particular, but a part of me wants the movie to be a train-wreck just so people can remember not to get too emotionally invested in film franchises.

I actually sympathize with this to some degree. We all have a streak of shadenfreude, I think. As much as I like Ryan Reynolds, part of me wanted Deadpool to fail for no good reason at all.

I promise I'm not a psychopath lol. It's just something that sort of emerges in my consciousness that I have no control over whatsoever.

Anyway, you're right, obviously. I shouldn't be so emotionally invested in a film franchise. I don't care, though.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

I really hope we're not confusing honest skepticism and understandable trepidations of certain creative decisions as outright hatred, or a desire to see the movie fail.

I think the vast majority of posters on the hype fall into the first category (even if I think some of those trepidations are unwarranted.) Go to a comment section virtually everywhere else on the internet, though, and it's littered with pure hate.

 

[Legendver2]

Mmm, yes and no. She still annoyed me by rushing to a conclusion that WB has somehow not done it's research beforehand re: the decision to beginning shooting JL 1 April 10th, basically right on the heels of the release of BvS. I would be shocked if WB hasn't held secret test screenings for BvS and focus-grouped it already. I'm sure they know what they have by now. Grace's narrative/interpetation that WB is doing it reactively in some sort of macho doubling down mode because of the rumor that McWeeny started sounds silly to me. WB has far too much at stake to behave childishly here. They would do make a decision like that carefully and deliberately, based on the best possible market research. If I had to make a bet on it, I think the decision to begin shooting JL Part 1 in April (with Snyder at the helm) would most likely reflect confidence that they have a solid winner in BvS, and the direction that they have taken overall in mapping out the DCEU's master plan.

Word. I highly doubt a multimillion dollar company would be making decisions reactively to some lone blogger on the internet spreading rumors about their production.

 

[Val_Zod]

I really hope we're not confusing honest skepticism and understandable trepidations of certain creative decisions as outright hatred, or a desire to see the movie fail.

No one here is. However, lets not deny the reality of the situation, this film has attracted the worst views from both ends of the spectrum. This isn't a situation where skepticism or caution is only being relentlessly shot down, nor is it a situation where the positive people are only being looked down on for rooting on the film. Its healthy or rather, unhealthy mix of both.

 

[Boy Scout]

No one here is. However, lets not deny the reality of the situation, this film has attracted the worst views from both ends of the spectrum. This isn't a situation where skepticism or caution is only being relentlessly shot down, nor is it a situation where the positive people are only being looked down on for rooting on the film. Its healthy or rather, unhealthy mix of both.

Um...

 

[jmc]

No one here is. However, lets not deny the reality of the situation, this film has attracted the worst views from both ends of the spectrum. This isn't a situation where skepticism or caution is only being relentlessly shot down, nor is it a situation where the positive people are only being looked down on for rooting on the film. Its healthy or rather, unhealthy mix of both.

You know why? Because these characters mean a lot to people on both sides.

 

[Legendver2]

No one here is. However, lets not deny the reality of the situation, this film has attracted the worst views from both ends of the spectrum. This isn't a situation where skepticism or caution is only being relentlessly shot down, nor is it a situation where the positive people are only being looked down on for rooting on the film. Its healthy or rather, unhealthy mix of both.

We should always keep in mind that this *secret* war for/against the DCEU is fought among probably 1% of the GA, by comic book fanboys, internet trollers, Marvelites, DCer's, Bangwagoners who are only fans of movies and never read a single comicbook, etc etc. And trust me, they make up maybe 5% of the movie going population, tops.

I honestly doubt soccer mom #12, baseball dad #5, frat boy #63, or girl next door #54 would really give a rats a$$ about any of this secret fanboy war. All they know is that this is an event film ala Avengers, and a must see event with pop culture's 2 most well known fictional icons duking it out, plus the added bonus of seeing THE first female superhero brought to life in a high budget production for the first time. Yea sure they'll read a troll-ish and click bait negative article or two from Yahoo or what not, but this is one of those movies where you go with a group of friends to have fun, a blockbuster where you either reserve seats, or line up with a bunch of other movie goers an hour before the movie just hanging out with random people you meet in line, and no stupid article is gonna stop that realistically.

Yea sure you're gonna have a fanboy here and there swearing that they wont see the movie because of *reasons*, but that's probably like 0.1% of the already small generous 5% of the movie going population. So when it comes down to it, nothing that happens on the hype or comment sections in these articles, etc. is going to matter much at all. Like many a few have mentioned before, the ONLY thing that matters is the WOM post-release in that first weekend.

 

[The Shape]

Anyway, you're right, obviously. I shouldn't be so emotionally invested in a film franchise. I don't care, though.

Don't let somebody try to tell you what you should or should not be emotionally invested in. Of course, you shouldn't be so invested to the point that you could wind up being devastated in a way that truly negatively impacts your life, or makes you feel like your life is ****, as you seemed to indicate...

But emotional investment and passion for art is normal, commonplace, and can often be healthy. People are emotionally invested in music, television, hobbies, jobs/careers, sports, etc. Sports fans are often devastated and drained when their team loses or makes mistakes, when a player is hurt or retires, etc.

It's no different when it comes to film. Movies can make us soar and feel truly emotionally satisfied, but they can also leave us feeling let down, cold, or disappointed. The definition of "disappointment" is -- "the feeling of sadness or displeasure caused by the nonfulfillment of one's hopes or expectations." Movies that leave you feeling emotionally fulfilled in some way -- even if they don't receive 94% RT scores and aren't unanimously praised -- are often the best ones and the ones that stick with us. Emotional gratification within the entertainment experience is important, and viewers of movie obviously find it rewarding to experience emotions of all kinds while watching them. Otherwise, why watch them or get excited for them?

As far as being emotionally invested in a franchise's success/failure, this is also normal, expected, and not all that different from sports (to use that example again). If there is a franchise that includes characters you are passionate about, of course you want to see that franchise succeed and be accepted -- especially if you feel that the film/franchise deserves to be successful. Of course you'll be disappointed (and even devastated) if it should fail or not meet expectations.

 

[Val_Zod]

Um...

I mean everyone here at the moment. I'm sure there have been highly defensive folks that have.

You know why? Because these characters mean a lot to people on both sides.

Not necessarily everyone. Some hope for validation on their stance. Some insecure "hipsters" may want to root for the film because the narrative they view is that people think it will suck, so they take the opposing side because they feel smarter than the "masses". On the other end, people who root against it may just want to find validation for their hatred, or just flat out don't like the characters and want to see it burn.

We should always keep in mind that this *secret* war for/against the DCEU is fought among probably 1% of the GA, by comic book fanboys, internet trollers, Marvelites, DCer's, Bangwagoners who are only fans of movies and never read a single comicbook, etc etc. And trust me, they make up maybe 5% of the movie going population, tops.

I honestly doubt soccer mom #12, baseball dad #5, frat boy #63, or girl next door #54 would really give a rats a$$ about any of this secret fanboy war. All they know is that this is an event film ala Avengers, and a must see event with pop culture's 2 most well known fictional icons duking it out, plus the added bonus of seeing THE first female superhero brought to life in a high budget production for the first time. Yea sure they'll read a troll-ish and click bait negative article or two from Yahoo or what not, but this is one of those movies where you go with a group of friends to have fun, a blockbuster where you either reserve seats, or line up with a bunch of other movie goers an hour before the movie just hanging out with random people you meet in line, and no stupid article is gonna stop that realistically.

Yea sure you're gonna have a fanboy here and there swearing that they wont see the movie because of *reasons*, but that's probably like 0.1% of the already small generous 5% of the movie going population. So when it comes down to it, nothing that happens on the hype or comment sections in these articles, etc. is going to matter much at all. Like many a few have mentioned before, the ONLY thing that matters is the WOM post-release in that first weekend.

I'm speaking purely of the fandom.

 

[AbradolfLincler]

Don't let somebody try to tell you what you should or should not be emotionally invested in. Of course, you shouldn't be so invested to the point that you could wind up being devastated in a way that truly negatively impacts your life, or makes you feel like your life is ****, as you seemed to indicate...

Actually, I said that I'm emotionally invested as a form of escapism BECAUSE my life is ****. That's not healthy.

Of course I'd care anyway, but I'm at a point where it's literally the only thing I look forward to.

It might not be such a terrible thing, though. I'm reeling from a lot of awful life experiences, and I'm at a point where I'd rather not put my efforts or attention into anything of real consequence. I think it's entirely possible that escapism can be therapeutic.

 

[jmc]

Not necessarily everyone. Some hope for validation on their stance. Some insecure "hipsters" may want to root for the film because the narrative they view is that people think it will suck, so they take the opposing side because they feel smarter than the "masses". On the other end, people who root against it may just want to find validation for their hatred, or just flat out don't like the characters and want to see it burn.

Here's where you're not 100 percent correct. The vast majority of people who are sceptical about this movie are DC fans, and the vast majority of them actually want this film to succeed. What this amounts to is because MoS didn't deliver in the way it needed to we have a large percentage of people who love these characters but are worried they're going to be screwed up again. There is no doubt there's tension within the fan base because this is an all-in situation, if it goes wrong it's an even bigger setback.

This film has to work because if it gets another mixed reaction it will effectively cause a civil war within the fan community that will be 10 times worse than MoS. Reality is this thread exist mainly because people give a damn about how these characters are portrayed and they want what's best for them.

 

[dnno1]

 

[Jaxon]

I actually sympathize with this to some degree. We all have a streak of shadenfreude, I think. As much as I like Ryan Reynolds, part of me wanted Deadpool to fail for no good reason at all.

I promise I'm not a psychopath lol. It's just something that sort of emerges in my consciousness that I have no control over whatsoever.

Anyway, you're right, obviously. I shouldn't be so emotionally invested in a film franchise. I don't care, though.

The reason you do that is that you don't want something to replace the thing you love the most. I want Civil War to make $1 billion. But I want BvS to make $2B because it means more to me and I don't want Marvel to end up replacing that for me.

 

[Val_Zod]

Here's where you're not 100 percent correct. The vast majority of people who are sceptical about this movie are DC fans, and the vast majority of them actually want this film to succeed. What this amounts to is because MoS didn't deliver in the way it needed to we have a large percentage of people who love these characters but are worried they're going to be screwed up again. There is no doubt there's tension within the fan base because this is an all-in situation, if it goes wrong it's an even bigger setback.

This film has to work because if it gets another mixed reaction it will effectively cause a civil war within the fan community that will be 10 times worse than MoS. Reality is this thread exist mainly because people give a damn about how these characters are portrayed and they want what's best for them.

I never denied this, just stating that this is not the whole picture. Bush fire becomes a forest fire as it spreads. What may have started out as skepticism from real fans also extends to people vilifying the project with aggressive concern (similar to the stans of the film), and just opportunist who want to expose their hate for DC through the film. Things like "Ben Affleck isn't a good actor, have you seen Daredevil?" and "DC characters suck and can never work on screen." I've reiterated ad-nauseam that those with real concerns are in the right to be nervous or unexcited with the film. That doesn't extend to everyone who is critical of it.

The reason you do that is that you don't want something to replace the thing you love the most. I want Civil War to make $1 billion. But I want BvS to make $2B because it means more to me and I don't want Marvel to end up replacing that for me.

I don't see how Civil war making more money than BvS would replace DC with Marvel. The money the films make have no impact on us beyond them making enough to satisfy continuing the franchise.

 

[Jaxon]

I don't see how Civil war making more money than BvS would replace DC with Marvel. The money the films make have no impact on us beyond them making enough to satisfy continuing the franchise.

The point is more about having validation for the thing you care about more