Superman Returns Suit, Muscle.. is Brandon the problem?

[Milkman95]

I'm not taking the movies into account. To me, Reeve looks better as Superman with the SAME suit, SAME physique as Routh.

I did. And Reeve has proved that he can do better with the same thing Routh has done, in my eyes.

Fair enough - I like Reeve better as well. This was never a debate concerning Routh BEING BETTER than Reeve. This discussion is about Routh being a good Superman in the suit he's wearing, and we can't make that determination yet.

What's the point anyway? Reeve is gone unfortunately, so why compare them? Brandon is Superman now, so let's give the poor guy a chance.......

 

[Venom71]

Not. Taking. Movies. Into. Account. Judging. Soley. On. Pictures.

I'm not stupid.

Thats up for debate

 

[Saph]

Uh...yeah...look at the boots, the shadows, the highlights. This pic has been manipped to death. Another straw house is falling...

Alright then. What about this:

Lighter Routh. Smaller than Reeve.

 

[Venom71]

You have no right to say that, considering what you said in my sig.

Sure I do..it is a message board and that is my opinion

 

[Saph]

What does it have to do with being stupid? You can't help but take movies into account because I am assuming you have seen them right? You can't just erase them from your mind. That's why you are jaded with Reeve is a better Superman. Like most of us are.

But Reeve has never worn Routh's suit before, has he? I'm judging him as if he wore the Returns suit.

 

[skruloos]

Not. Taking. Movies. Into. Account. Judging. Soley. On. Pictures.

I'm not stupid.

Impossible. You cannot seperate a memory of Reeve's performance from the picture. You are conditioned to seeing him as Superman. Try watching any movie with Reeve in it. It's hard to see his character as anything BUT Superman. The association is so close. You can't simply look at a picture and think you can seperate the two objectively. The mind simply doesn't work that way.

I was alive when Superman the Movie was in production. I remember seeing a few photos in magazines. I thought he looked like a skinny dancer in a leotard. I thought it was ridiculous. But then I saw the movie and he proved he could be the Man of Steel. That's all it took. I'm affording Routh the same benefit of doubt that I gave Reeve.

 

[Saph]

What's the point anyway? Reeve is gone unfortunately, so why compare them? Brandon is Superman now, so let's give the poor guy a chance.......

I'm not saying I want Reeve. I'm saying that Routh isn't proving to be as good as Reeve at the moment. If I see some footage that blows me away, i'd be happy to change my opinion.

 

[Bad Superman]

I really don't see why two different points of view can co-exist. It's all about sharing our interest in Superman. BOTH should be respected.

It's a shame it has come down to "fighting" to win or lose. That's the attitude that kills this board.

 

[Saph]

Impossible. You cannot seperate a memory of Reeve's performance from the picture. You are conditioned to seeing him as Superman. Try watching any movie with Reeve in it. It's hard to see his character as anything BUT Superman. The association is so close. You can't simply look at a picture and think you can seperate the two objectively. The mind simply doesn't work that way.

But i've NEVER seen Reeve in the Returns costume, have I?

I was alive when Superman the Movie was in production. I remember seeing a few photos in magazines. I thought he looked like a skinny dancer in a leotard. I thought it was ridiculous. But then I saw the movie and he proved he could be the Man of Steel. That's all it took. I'm affording Routh the same benefit of doubt that I gave Reeve.

So did I. Until I saw that Reeve, in the world of pictures, surpasses Routh in the exact same conditions.

 

[Milkman95]

I'm not saying I want Reeve. I'm saying that Routh isn't proving to be as good as Reeve at the moment. If I see some footage that blows me away, i'd be happy to change my opinion.

Again, WHY does Routh have to be better than Reeve?

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I'm not saying I want Reeve. I'm saying that Routh isn't proving to be as good as Reeve at the moment. If I see some footage that blows me away, i'd be happy to change my opinion.

your just not reading properly anything we have put be it jeff or myself..

 

[MatchesMalone]

Alright then. What about this:

Lighter Routh. Smaller than Reeve.

he has a slightly smaller head. The body is just as big as Reeve in STM. Saph, you have to start admitting your unintentional bias. I have it too. In my opinion, NOBODY will supplant Reeve as being my definitive Superman. However, that does not mean that Routh won't make a great Superman. Comparing Routh to Reeve at this point is ludicrous.

 

[Saph]

I really don't see why two different points of view can co-exist. It's all about sharing our interest in Superman. BOTH should be respected.

It's a shame it has come down to "fighting" to win or lose. That's the attitude that kills this board.

It's because a majority of people who like what they're seeing can't handle people disliking the movie. If you ask suit haters, Brandon haters, you'll find that none of them HATE the suit likers, Brandon likers for their opinion.

 

[MatchesMalone]

But i've NEVER seen Reeve in the Returns costume, have I?

That is your counterpoint? That because you have changed the costume, it's the big difference? Your entire first post dealt with the costume having nothing to do with it, that it was the presence of the actor that made the difference. Now you're saying you can be objective because of the costume? You make absolutely no sense sometimes.

 

[Saph]

he has a slightly smaller head. The body is just as big as Reeve in STM. Saph, you have to start admitting your unintentional bias. I have it too. In my opinion, NOBODY will supplant Reeve as being my definitive Superman. However, that does not mean that Routh won't make a great Superman. Comparing Routh to Reeve at this point is ludicrous.

I can't be biased because Reev has never beein in the Superman Returns suit before. I'm judging Reeve in Superman Return's world, not judging Routh in Superman The Movie's world.

 

[lujho]

I think you can pretty objectively say that Reeve looks more like SUperman than Routh facially, without being influenced by having seen one in a Superman movie and not having seen the other yet.

Routh will hopefully make a prettty good Supes, but he's always going to look less like Superman than Reeve, purely based on his facial features. Jaw, chin and neck not quite strong enough, nose a bit too long and prominent - just very basic features which no not quite line up with almost eevry drawn version of Superman.

I wouldn't be saying that about someone like say, Eion Bailey, who while I have never seen him play Superman, I know that he has a strong jaw and a smaller nose, and while he look nothing like Reeve, I'd say he looks about as much like Superman as Reeve does.

 

[MatchesMalone]

It's because a majority of people who like what they're seeing can't handle people disliking the movie. If you ask suit haters, Brandon haters, you'll find that none of them HATE the suit likers, Brandon likers for their opinion.

hahahahahahahahaha

Ask SCLJ, or Buggs. Or even Oldguy, back in the day. They used to spit venom at suit likers BECAUSE THEY WERE SUIT LIKERS. Buggs just recently said that he had to replace punching bags in his office because the suit likers got him so worked up.

Try again.

 

[Saph]

That is your counterpoint? That because you have changed the costume, it's the big difference? Your entire first post dealt with the costume having nothing to do with it, that it was the presence of the actor that made the difference. Now you're saying you can be objective because of the costume? You make absolutely no sense sometimes.

The actor's presence makes the costume work, is what i'm saying. I can do the exact same thing with Routh and put his head ontop of Reeve's body in Superman The Movie. The difference is if he surpasses Reeve or not.

 

[Showtime]

But Reeve has never worn Routh's suit before, has he? I'm judging him as if he wore the Returns suit.

That's correct and he never will, but Routh will. My point is that you automatically think Reeve looks great because you associate him with Superman. If he wore army pants and a white sheet with a spray painted S you would think...Superman. It's just the presence of Reeve in a costume with an S. Association.

 

[Saph]

hahahahahahahahaha

Ask SCLJ, or Buggs. Or even Oldguy, back in the day. They used to spit venom at suit likers BECAUSE THEY WERE SUIT LIKERS. Buggs just recently said that he had to replace punching bags in his office because the suit likers got him so worked up.

Try again.

Actually, Buggs broke punching bags because of posts like that.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

This could easily go in the debate thread.

 

[Venom71]

It's because a majority of people who like what they're seeing can't handle people disliking the movie. If you ask suit haters, Brandon haters, you'll find that none of them HATE the suit likers, Brandon likers for their opinion.

Thats not true..at least one of them stated in the hate thread (When it was open) that they hated the suit likers.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I think you can pretty objectively say that Reeve looks more like SUperman than Routh facially, without being influenced by having seen one in a Superman movie and not having seen the other yet.

I would say, based on my experience and schooling in the workings of human memory, recognition, and facial association, that it is impossible to do so.

But what do I know.

 

[skruloos]

I can't be biased because Reev has never beein in the Superman Returns suit before. I'm judging Reeve in Superman Return's world, not judging Routh in Superman The Movie's world.

Did you read the point I made? The association with Reeve and Superman is so strong that I dare you to watch any of his other movies and not automatically think him as Superman. It's just ingrained, costume or not.

 

[lujho]

I would say, based on my experience and schooling in the workings of human memory, recognition, and facial association, that it is impossible to do so.

But what do I know.

But it's just a simple matter of the dimensions of facial features... which is 100% objective, nothing to do with the influence of memory.

I'm not arguing that Reeve doesn't also "feel" more like Superman to most people because we've seen him in the films, but it's possible to put that aside when judging something as clear-cut as how big someone's nose or jaw is.