Supergirl Supergirl Season 2 Episode 12 - "Luthors" MAJOR SPOILERS

I'm OK with him *defending* against Metallo, which he also similarly did against Parasite.

It's when James did his spin kick and actually KNOCKED BACK Metallo where I rolled the crap out of my eyes. That's the part that's just completely unbelievable to me. It wasn't even 2 minutes later that Metallo ripped a prison door off its frame.

If you're THAT strong, a normal human man wailing on you would be like a 5 year old kid doing a spin kick against Shaquille O'Neal and it actually pushing Shaq back.

I think we are giving way too much credit to James being Guardian. It is Winn that is the real genius behind the suit. Winn is Guardian. James is just a piece of meat that operates the suit.
I think Winn is such a tech genius that anyone could be super powerful in the suit, maybe even Winn if Winn had fighting skills. So with that I could see how Winn is able to take on Parasite
and Metallo by using James in the Guardian suit. It's the suit that has the powers, not James. Just like Alex was able to take on Supergirl and later on Metallo in the Kryptonian battle suit.
 
Also Winn has to know what city he's in. He works for the DEO and is close friends with two alien superheroes, and one of said alien's DEO-agent adoptive sister. He has to know that if James is going to go all vigilante in this city, he's going to end up facing more than just bank robbers and other mundane criminals. Aliens and other superpowered or "enhanced" beings are going to come into play. And Metallo is already know to him and the others.

So he'd be an idiot to not make a suit that's designed to try and compensate for all of that to at least some degree.
 
Sorry, I had to take care of something important at the last minute, so I must have missed the "she's actually Lionel's daughter" part. So my bad on that one.

BUT, it doesn't change my opinion that it'd be really lame to go that route. Especially since Lena's whole thing is NOT wanting to be judged by her family and trying to break away from them. Also it sounds a bit like Tess from Smallville. And you know what I loved about her, well aside from the actress. That she DIDN'T turn out to evil in the end.

This whole notion of "well she's a Luthor, so she must be bad" just rubs me the wrong way.

I have no idea what White Rook is... but I really hope they won't go the "Blood will Tell" way. It's reinforcing a very harmful message. And yes, weak writing.

I liked Lena and hope for that friendship to develop positively. Even after the eventual Supergirl reveal.

James was good when he wasn't dabbling in false equivalencies--which considering his job as a press man, is not cool! nor acceptable!

I don't want him to go. I want him to develop into a more likable and well-rounded character who believes in himself as a human and a journalist.

Well, "A girl means yes when she says no" is another harmful trope. But, that ship has sailed I guess. Apparently, in Superworld, people need to have romance to live a fulfilling life.
 
Apparently, in Superworld, people need to have romance to live a fulfilling life.

Not just in the Superworld, but in the real world too. Almost everyone I know has a partner.
I have no problem with Kara realizing that she needs love and someone for her to give her love to in return. It is not de-feminizing or de-hero-izing as some have claimed, and since romance (and attempts at romance) proliferate in the real world, I have no problem with it being prevalent in Supergirl.
From the first season, it's pretty clear that Kara has been alone romance-wise for a long time, so I'm happy they're bringing a romance into the mix for her as well.:cwink:

I'm really hoping that Lena isn't a villain. I like her too much as Kara's best friend and ally. They should just stop with the mystery, already!

But the mystery is half the aggravating fun!:woot: And we've only just started the second half of the season.

I also watched some of the reaction videos for this episode on YouTube last night and saw how 'intense' some Supercorp fans can be...:whatever:
There was this one cutie who couldn't stop waving her 'Super Gaaaaaay!' plaque every time Kara and Lena were conversing.

Those poor people are really putting themselves up for a big hurt when the 'romance' they keep reading into it doesn't happen.
 
I have no idea what White Rook is... but I really hope they won't go the "Blood will Tell" way. It's reinforcing a very harmful message. And yes, weak writing.

I liked Lena and hope for that friendship to develop positively. Even after the eventual Supergirl reveal.

James was good when he wasn't dabbling in false equivalencies--which considering his job as a press man, is not cool! nor acceptable!

I don't want him to go. I want him to develop into a more likable and well-rounded character who believes in himself as a human and a journalist.

Well, "A girl means yes when she says no" is another harmful trope. But, that ship has sailed I guess. Apparently, in Superworld, people need to have romance to live a fulfilling life.

I guess I'm not getting this....people fall in love all the time, people love people that love them and they have great lives together all the time. Why shouldn't Kara have that chance, or at the least take that chance? What does it hurt? It doesn't weaken her, it doesn't make her any less of a person....so why not?
 
I guess I'm not getting this....people fall in love all the time, people love people that love them and they have great lives together all the time.

Okay... I guess, my statement was confusing (very). I am answering both you and Thome.

I think, from what I have seen of people, that most folks do end up with a life partner some time in their life. And if you are lucky--which hopefully most of you are--it would be great for you.

However, there are times in your life when your focus is on your career, or you have other aspirations. Yes, love happens unexpectedly even then, but a look at how someone can be happy for a time being a single woman (or man) and focusing on certain other matters--how to be a good journalist, for example-- would be nice; especially since most other shows are tangled up in romance.

In this season, people have fallen in love in a matter of weeks. For no particularly good reason as far as I can see.

Why shouldn't Kara have that chance, or at the least take that chance? What does it hurt? It doesn't weaken her, it doesn't make her any less of a person....so why not?

I don't think it weakens her.

I think it weakens the story.

Because stories are not always the same as real-life. It has elements of real-life but is much more coherent and in case of superheroes, is larger than life. Having her fall in love so fast is not I think good for a seven-season run. Having a will they won't they thing go on with unnecessary obstacles set before them (like the one used in this episode) is even worse.

And this story purports to be something of a hero for young women and boys who are willing to look beyond gender.

Not all young women and men are looking for love. Not all of them think that it is necessary for their current happiness (in some cases, even future happiness). To suggest story-wise that it is so; and that is what they did the past couple of episodes--that Kara needs love to be fulfilled--is reinforcing the idea among young people that it is indeed so. That if you are single, there is indeed something lacking in your life. And that if you are happy being single, then you are quite abnormal or you are trying to make up for that lack by focusing on other things--after all, that is what Alex suggested to Kara in the Feb 6 episode. That she is not sad because she is missing Alex; she is sad because she is missing Mon El. Nice!

How many folks--teens as well as older folks--date because of peer pressure or cultural pressure and not because they really like someone?

That she is lonely I can understand. That falling in love is the way to deal with that loneliness, I don't. Especially since her friends and sis have been kind of ignoring her.

And also since work is also a form of fulfillment that this season hasn't focused on at all. (All her reporting work has been about interviewing Lena; except for that one time when she tracks down the missing folks; I think she is the Lena beat.)

Also, while we are at it: :yay:

That she would fall in love with Mon El just because he is funny and he is in love with her and he has been pining for her (half the past two episodes were about how he is pining for her) and is not quite as bad as she was taught or expected; that is a weird reason for falling in love and an even weirder message to send to people. Not to mention cliched. I have seen scores of movies where girls fall in love with guys just because they are like Mon El. Kind of arrogant, uncaring except for about themselves and jerkish at first, and then being all nice because they kind of like the girl who is a proponent of stuff and then bingo, the girl is in love back. Nice again! How much does it happen in real life, I have no idea (we Indians mostly go for arranged marriages. :) ).

If on the other hand: The season had focused on Mon El's otherwordliness and adjusting to life--not just for comic effect--but exploring it more deeply, in making him adjust to James, Winn, J'onn, DEO instead of having him just follow around Kara, have Kara focus a bit on her career, instead of focusing her time on Mon El most of the time, then we could have had a better story in my opinion.
 
I also watched some of the reaction videos for this episode on YouTube last night and saw how 'intense' some Supercorp fans can be...:whatever:
There was this one cutie who couldn't stop waving her 'Super Gaaaaaay!' plaque every time Kara and Lena were conversing.

Those poor people are really putting themselves up for a big hurt when the 'romance' they keep reading into it doesn't happen.

Welcome to the world of gay people! :yay:

I am pretty sure most of them, if not all, don't expect these two to be a canon couple. But they are used to shipping subtext (unintended or intended it doesn't matter) and have been doing so for decades. Just because they get a few gay couples here and there doesn't change that.

They ship Lena-Kara just for fun. Not because they expect to see a romance there as written by the official writers but because they see a potential for romance there in their own minds.

In canon, Kara is straight. In fan fiction, Kara can be anything. :woot:
 
Okay... So, I went to the general discussion board and found all that discussion about Kara-Lena and Mon-El-Kara.

I'd like to add that my criticism of the storyline has nothing to do with that (although, I think people have a right to dislike Mon El if they want to). I like Mon-El and I do think he has good comedic timing, I just don't like the romance or how it has been dealt with.

His character has barely had any back story; no more than Maggie, in fact. That makes me not invested in his feelings. (Or her feelings though I am invested in Alex).

If they had taken a couple of seasons to flesh him out, showed his struggles in the planet, let him be helped not just by Kara, but by J'onn, Winn, Alex and even James, then it would have been great. And in the course of it, he could slowly fall in love with Kara.

The writers could have portrayed his initial don't-care attitude as a reaction to suddenly losing his family and everything he cared about. They didn't do that either; instead having a cliched stereotypical representation of Daxam. And a cliched hero who gets better just because a. Kara believes in him b. Alex gives him a smack down because Kara believes in him and he is hurting her by not living up to that belief and c. Because he gets a crush on Kara.

I do agree with some folks though that while the writers or the viewers may have not intended it, message-wise and story-wise, dropping James for no reason, and taking up with Mon El for again no reason, will not be looked at kindly by posterity (hopefully, one where race-based discrimination doesn't exist).

They practically destroyed James though... so, right now, what I really hope for is a stable romance for Kara rather then something happening and putting a sudden end to the Mon El thing.

It's not contradictory to my previous comment by the way. :)
I didn't like the execution of it. Or, see the need for it. But, now that we have it, I'd rather have it than have her go through the same dance with someone new in the next season.

However, if season 3 will have her non-interested in romance I would like that.
 
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Okay... I guess, my statement was confusing (very). I am answering both you and Thome.

I think, from what I have seen of people, that most folks do end up with a life partner some time in their life. And if you are lucky--which hopefully most of you are--it would be great for you.

However, there are times in your life when your focus is on your career, or you have other aspirations. Yes, love happens unexpectedly even then, but a look at how someone can be happy for a time being a single woman (or man) and focusing on certain other matters--how to be a good journalist, for example-- would be nice; especially since most other shows are tangled up in romance.

In this season, people have fallen in love in a matter of weeks. For no particularly good reason as far as I can see.



I don't think it weakens her.

I think it weakens the story.

Because stories are not always the same as real-life. It has elements of real-life but is much more coherent and in case of superheroes, is larger than life. Having her fall in love so fast is not I think good for a seven-season run. Having a will they won't they thing go on with unnecessary obstacles set before them (like the one used in this episode) is even worse.

And this story purports to be something of a hero for young women and boys who are willing to look beyond gender.

Not all young women and men are looking for love. Not all of them think that it is necessary for their current happiness (in some cases, even future happiness). To suggest story-wise that it is so; and that is what they did the past couple of episodes--that Kara needs love to be fulfilled--is reinforcing the idea among young people that it is indeed so. That if you are single, there is indeed something lacking in your life. And that if you are happy being single, then you are quite abnormal or you are trying to make up for that lack by focusing on other things--after all, that is what Alex suggested to Kara in the Feb 6 episode. That she is not sad because she is missing Alex; she is sad because she is missing Mon El. Nice!

How many folks--teens as well as older folks--date because of peer pressure or cultural pressure and not because they really like someone?

That she is lonely I can understand. That falling in love is the way to deal with that loneliness, I don't. Especially since her friends and sis have been kind of ignoring her.

And also since work is also a form of fulfillment that this season hasn't focused on at all. (All her reporting work has been about interviewing Lena; except for that one time when she tracks down the missing folks; I think she is the Lena beat.)

Also, while we are at it: :yay:

That she would fall in love with Mon El just because he is funny and he is in love with her and he has been pining for her (half the past two episodes were about how he is pining for her) and is not quite as bad as she was taught or expected; that is a weird reason for falling in love and an even weirder message to send to people. Not to mention cliched. I have seen scores of movies where girls fall in love with guys just because they are like Mon El. Kind of arrogant, uncaring except for about themselves and jerkish at first, and then being all nice because they kind of like the girl who is a proponent of stuff and then bingo, the girl is in love back. Nice again! How much does it happen in real life, I have no idea (we Indians mostly go for arranged marriages. :) ).

If on the other hand: The season had focused on Mon El's otherwordliness and adjusting to life--not just for comic effect--but exploring it more deeply, in making him adjust to James, Winn, J'onn, DEO instead of having him just follow around Kara, have Kara focus a bit on her career, instead of focusing her time on Mon El most of the time, then we could have had a better story in my opinion.

I think you are putting the cart before the horse...people don't fall in love and THEN start seeing each other or dating. No one has said the love word yet in this series, not even once. No one has "fallen in love" in a matter of weeks. They have however, met, as in Kara and Mon-El's case they haven't even had a date yet, so they have just begun "to get to know each other" not fallen in love. Maggie and Alex, met, and are moving their relationship along to maybe, maybe not a time when they can say "I love you" and move on from there....but again, no one has said.... "I love you" yet.... :)

I know of several couples, who have built a strong relationship, as well as built their careers at the same time, it does happen quite often.
 
Apparently, in Superworld, people need to have romance to live a fulfilling life.

I appreciate where you’re coming from. Personally, I tend to enjoy more nuanced, complex and “progressive” stories - wherein the female protagonist is not necessarily defined by the romantic subplots (and/or passes the “Bechdel Test”).

That said, Supergirl is not Jessica Jones. As a mainstream network offering that skews to a younger demographic (and, especially, as a CW show), Supergirl follows a certain standard paradigm - which typically includes a liberal dose of soap opera-y melodrama. :cwink: In this respect, it’s not a whole lot different from the relationship “antics” that crop up on Arrow, The Flash, LoT or (going farther back) Buffy. So comparing apples to apples, I don’t think Supergirl is much of an outlier.
 
I laughed at Lionel being bald since I expected him to have long hair like in Smallville.

Is Lex supposed to be mentally ill or something? The way they talked about him, it was like he's dead or can't function like normal person rather than being an evil guy in jail.
 
Just as I see nothing wrong with the eye candy for us guys.

Except that you have PLENTY OF IT.......over abundance of it....lots of it.

And we are just getting equal time. :yay: That is all.
 
In canon, Kara is straight. In fan fiction, Kara can be anything. :woot:

The absolute fun of fan fiction!:cwink:

Going back to the end of the episode, there's nothing wrong with wanting a romantic relationship, nor is there anything wrong with concentrating on a career to the exclusion of all else. I've never felt that this was a message on the show for either choice.

Kara is just one of those woman who wants it all, and that's not bad!

Consider, she's been pretty much alone for most of the full two seasons, and I would assume for even longer than that before the show even started! And even the non-starter with James is kinda true to life, as we've all been there when initial attraction just peters out for any number of reasons. It coincides with a time when she thought she had to concentrate on her 'job' to the exclusion of her heart. And I'm sure seeing Alex finding happiness was a spur in her side to change that.

However, she and Mon-El look to be a pretty good fit. They have good on-screen chemistry and cute/cuddly interactions. When he first arrived I was groaning inside, but now I'm happy with where it's going. And as obvious opposites, they can learn a lot from each other.

And I know the moniker for Kara and Mon-El is 'Karamel,' but I really favor 'Super-Mon!'
 
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I laughed at Lionel being bald since I expected him to have long hair like in Smallville.

Is Lex supposed to be mentally ill or something? The way they talked about him, it was like he's dead or can't function like normal person rather than being an evil guy in jail.

Lex seems to be either dead or crazy, based on statements made by Lillian and Lena.

1. "We're the only two Luthors left" - Lillian Luthor
2. "Lex went insane" - Lena Luthor
3. "Exactly. And if the could take the brightest mind on Earth and drive him crazy defending himself, " - Lillian Luthor
4. "And with no Luthor men to divide us, I can finally be the mother you always wanted." - Lillian Luthor
5. "Tell me you have a bit of Lex frozen somewhere" - Lena Luthor

So from the sound of it Lex went insane and apparently died sometime after the first episode this season, where Lex was just in prison at that time.
 
I appreciate where you’re coming from. Personally, I tend to enjoy more nuanced, complex and “progressive” stories - wherein the female protagonist is not necessarily defined by the romantic subplots (and/or passes the “Bechdel Test”).

That said, Supergirl is not Jessica Jones. As a mainstream network offering that skews to a younger demographic (and, especially, as a CW show), Supergirl follows a certain standard paradigm - which typically includes a liberal dose of soap opera-y melodrama. :cwink: In this respect, it’s not a whole lot different from the relationship “antics” that crop up on Arrow, The Flash, LoT or (going farther back) Buffy. So comparing apples to apples, I don’t think Supergirl is much of an outlier.

Okay! :)

I am resigned to it. :whatever:
 
Lex seems to be either dead or crazy, based on statements made by Lillian and Lena.

1. "We're the only two Luthors left" - Lillian Luthor
2. "Lex went insane" - Lena Luthor
3. "Exactly. And if the could take the brightest mind on Earth and drive him crazy defending himself, " - Lillian Luthor
4. "And with no Luthor men to divide us, I can finally be the mother you always wanted." - Lillian Luthor
5. "Tell me you have a bit of Lex frozen somewhere" - Lena Luthor

So from the sound of it Lex went insane and apparently died sometime after the first episode this season, where Lex was just in prison at that time.
I do agree it seems Lex went insane, but all those statements suggest to me is that Lillian considers him to be out of the picture now. Lillian must believe he's too far gone mentally to ever achieve anything more. I won't believe he's dead until the show explicitly says so, since it has ALREADY explicitly told us he's currently serving several life sentences and recently tried to have his little sister killed.

That last Lena line was just her being facetious since she knew Lex was unavailable to open the DNA-encrypted vault.
 
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I do agree it seems Lex went insane, but all those statements suggest to me is that Lillian considers him to be out of the picture now. Lillian must believe he's too far gone mentally to ever achieve anything more. I won't believe he's dead until the show explicitly says so, since it has ALREADY explicitly told us he's currently serving several life sentences and recently tried to have his little sister killed.

That last Lena line was just her being facetious since she knew Lex was unavailable to open the DNA-encrypted vault.

Also, there is a picture running around of Alex talking with a bald guy in a jail cell.......wonder who that is?
 
Also, there is a picture running around of Alex talking with a bald guy in a jail cell.......wonder who that is?

There are a lot of bald people on this show though. It's kind of funny that men are no longer afraid to be bald. I like watching the reruns of Wonder Woman on MeTV, and
back then in the 1970's everyone had long luxuriant hair, especially the men. Now even most the men with hair have the same basic hair styles as men in the 1950s wore.
 
There are a lot of bald people on this show though. It's kind of funny that men are no longer afraid to be bald. I like watching the reruns of Wonder Woman on MeTV, and
back then in the 1970's everyone had long luxuriant hair, especially the men. Now even most the men with hair have the same basic hair styles as men in the 1950s wore.

Hence.... "I wonder who that is....?" ;)
 
Well this was a better episode than the previous two or so. It did seem to borrow a lot from Smallville though.

Did Lionel Luthor exist prior to Smallville? Anyway, this version didn't seem anywhere as good as John Glover.

Also, were Clark and Lex ever best friends before Smallville? I thought that also came just from that series, and prior to that they've always simply been mortal enemies.

Bored of the Guardian stuff.


You know when Lena and Kara were sitting there alone at the end, and Lena was praising Kara while wearing that, aesthetically pleasing dress, I half-expected her to kiss Kara, or at least try to.

But yeah, Melissa and Katie have great natural chemistry with each other.

I was expecting that too. Their chemistry is smouldering and there seems to be definitely a bit of a lesbian vibe, at least from Lena. And I say this coming from someone who doesn't want the show to go there, because it's already ventured there with Chyler and Maggie. But there does seem to be some soft of sexual tension, at least coming from Lena.

She also reminds me of Keira Knightley quite a lot at times.
 
Also, were Clark and Lex ever best friends before Smallville? I thought that also came just from that series, and prior to that they've always simply been mortal enemies.

In the earliest iterations of the mythos, Superman and Luthor first meet (and begin their arch-nemesis relationship) as adults. And most of the modern reboots revert back to this paradigm. But in the Silver Age (~1960s), Luthor’s backstory was retconned: he and Clark/Superboy were actually childhood friends in Smallville. However, during a lab accident - for which he blames Superboy - Luthor permanently loses his hair :-)whatever:). Thus begins their lifelong rivalry and feud. So with a few alterations, this version was incorporated into Smallville. Supergirl, it would appear, is borrowing from a few different sources for their origin of Luthor (and family).
 
Well this was a better episode than the previous two or so. It did seem to borrow a lot from Smallville though.

Did Lionel Luthor exist prior to Smallville? Anyway, this version didn't seem anywhere as good as John Glover.

Also, were Clark and Lex ever best friends before Smallville? I thought that also came just from that series, and prior to that they've always simply been mortal enemies.

Both Lionel and Lillian Luthor were characters created for Smallville and had never existed in the comic books prior to that. Lena Luthor is a bonafied comic book character though,
having first appeared in Superman's Girl Friend Lois Lane #23, February 1961. So she is almost as old as Supergirl in terms of existence. (Supergirl first appeared in 1959).

Can we really judge how good this version of Lionel Luthor is though? It's not like Ian Butcher had all that much to do or say. I mean for that matter Michael Rosenbaum made
a better young Lex Luthor in Smallville than Aidan Fink did in Supergirl.

What Dr. said about Clark and Lex's friendship.
 
Both Lionel and Lillian Luthor were characters created for Smallville and had never existed in the comic books prior to that. Lena Luthor is a bonafied comic book character though,
having first appeared in Superman's Girl Friend Lois Lane #23, February 1961. So she is almost as old as Supergirl in terms of existence. (Supergirl first appeared in 1959).

Can we really judge how good this version of Lionel Luthor is though? It's not like Ian Butcher had all that much to do or say. I mean for that matter Michael Rosenbaum made
a better young Lex Luthor in Smallville than Aidan Fink did in Supergirl.

What Dr. said about Clark and Lex's friendship.

He butchered the part!
 

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