The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 4

[The Guard]

And I see robins landing on branches like...eight times a day in the Spring.

What's your point?

 

[UaalaDan]

Blake gets swarmed by bats in a cave where bats live shocker!

Except this scene is supposed to be a mirror to the Batman Begins scene. Its his baptism.

 

[Syncope]

And I see robins landing on branches like...eight times a day in the Spring.

What's your point?

Nolan missed the boat with that one...

 

[Syncope]

Except this scene is supposed to be a mirror to the Batman Begins scene. Its his baptism.

I'm not disputing that point. In fact, I'm not disputing any point. Just glad the film didn't end with a robin landing on a branch.

 

[UaalaDan]

Nolan missed the boat with that one...

I don't know if this was a sarcastic comment but i personally hated Robin John Blake.

 

[Reikowolf]

Totally. He is supposed to be the next Batman in the movie. Not Robin. Bruce even gives him walk-talkie and all..maybe to talk to Gordon. I have no doubt in my mind that Nolan's Bruce gave up of being Batman forever to live a life with Selina. And John Blake is the new Batman. That's what's in the movie.

I hate it but it is what it is.

I like that, for once, a character whose sole purpose in comics has been the constant pain and anger over the death of his parents is finally allowed to no longer suffer and get the life he deserves for all his sacrifice.

it's ballsy and despite being a fictional character, I truly want him to have the happy ending that so many comic book characters deserve but never get.

 

[kthevs]

There's an interview on MTV.com with Bale

Spoiler

Where it's confirmed he lived, which was obvious all along. Maybe discussion can stop now.

I hope you're right. Link?

Nevermind. I found it. But it won't load for me. Can you please post what he said?

 

[UaalaDan]

I like that, for once, a character whose sole purpose in comics has been the constant pain and anger over the death of his parents is finally allowed to no longer suffer and get the life he deserves for all his sacrifice.

it's ballsy and despite being a fictional character, I truly want him to have the happy ending that so many comic book characters deserve but never get.

Superman always got a happy ending in the comics. Batman isn't supposed to be like that though, imo. He lost his happy ending the minute his parents got murdered and he decided to down the cowl. It is his choice. He can't simply give up just like that. And for a woman he didn't love at all or it was NEVER shown in the movie that he loved her. It felt forced and it made absolutely no sense for him to end with Selina. It ended like this because Nolan wanted so and not because it made sense.

It makes sense if this was the comics in which he knows her a lot. But, as it is in the story of the movie, it was ridiculous. If it was Rachel, it would've been a different story.

 

[kthevs]

Superman always got a happy ending in the comics. Batman isn't supposed to be like that though, imo. He lost his happy ending the minute his parents got murdered and he decided to down the cowl. It is his choice. He can't simply give up just like that. And for a woman he didn't love at all or it was NEVER shown in the movie that he loved her. It felt forced and it made absolutely no sense for him to end with Selina. It ended like this because Nolan wanted so and not because it made sense.

It makes sense if this was the comics in which he knows her a lot. But, as it is in the story of the movie, it was ridiculous. If it was Rachel, it would've been a different story.

Disagree. Rachel was a terrible fit for him. She couldn't understand him. Selina understands how broken he is.

 

[UaalaDan]

Disagree. Rachel was a terrible fit for him. She couldn't understand him. Selina understands how broken he is.

That doesn't matter because he loved her. He didn't love Selina at all in the movie. It was never shown he wanted to have a relationship with her. And then, in the end, it just appears out of nowhere. Nolan should've cut the the BS and fat of the movie(Foley,etc) to explore better the characters that were REALLY important.

 

[Reikowolf]

Superman always got a happy ending in the comics. Batman isn't supposed to be like that though, imo. He lost his happy ending the minute his parents got murdered and he decided to down the cowl. It is his choice. He can't simply give up just like that. And for a woman he didn't love at all or it was NEVER shown in the movie that he loved her. It felt forced and it made absolutely no sense for him to end with Selina. It ended like this because Nolan wanted so and not because it made sense.

It makes sense if this was the comics in which he knows her a lot. But, as it is in the story of the movie, it was ridiculous. If it was Rachel, it would've been a different story.

and yet there's still a superman comic every month where he fights a bad guy and people's lives hang in the balance.

I think the ending had very little to do with Selina and everything to do with Bruce finally moving past the death of his parents. Alfred even tells him that it is the single most poisonous thing in his heart and what does not allow him to move on with his life.

but this is simply MHO and you're just as right as I am in your argument.

 

[UaalaDan]

It is just a matter of preference. That's why having a set ending does this. It splits the fans. I thought a much better ending would be Bruce putting roses in his parents grave with Selina by his side. Something like "Mask of the Phantasm"

 

[Greens]

There has ALWAYS been romantic tension between Batman and Catwoman in the comics. Hell, they even secks for a few panels every once in a while. This was present in this film as well. They kiss twice (okay maybe the first one doesn't count). Selina tried to convince him to escape with her, but he didn't want to leave Gotham to burn. Selina and Bruce save Gotham, mission accomplished, Selina gets her clean slate, Bruce fakes his death, they leave. Bruce ending up with Selina is not a big stretch. He finally got over Maggie Gylalalhehek.

 

[flaffman]

Having seen the film for the first time today and reading the comments on the ambiguity, or otherwise, of the ending and doubts over Bruce's survival one thing has come back to me namely:
When Alfred gives his speech early on over his hopes for Bruce and how he hoped to one day see him in Florence (iirc) having a drink with his loved one, he explicitly states that every year he orders the same drink. In the initial scene the drink is delivered in what appears to be a regular (red) wine glass. In the end scene the drink is delivered in a glass such as those sherry (or other aperitifs) are traditionally served in. Does this inconsistency hint at the final scene being a dream of Alfred, or others, and as such does it point to Bruces death and Alfreds unfulfilled wish which will continue to haunt him

 

[Reikowolf]

Having seen the film for the first time today and reading the comments on the ambiguity, or otherwise, of the ending and doubts over Bruce's survival one thing has come back to me namely:
When Alfred gives his speech early on over his hopes for Bruce and how he hoped to one day see him in Florence (iirc) having a drink with his loved one, he explicitly states that every year he orders the same drink. In the initial scene the drink is delivered in what appears to be a regular (red) wine glass. In the end scene the drink is delivered in a glass such as those sherry (or other aperitifs) are traditionally served in. Does this inconsistency hint at the final scene being a dream of Alfred, or others, and as such does it point to Bruces death and Alfreds unfulfilled wish which will continue to haunt him

no.

 

[The Guard]

There's really nothing at the end that suggests they're madly in love.

He's just with her at the cafe.

It's fairly ambigious as to the nature of their relationship.

 

[Reikowolf]

There's really nothing at the end that suggests they're madly in love.

He's just with her at the cafe.

It's fairly ambigious as to the nature of their relationship.

he's putting his pee in her veegee

that's fairly certain

 

[TheFuture]

I like that, for once, a character whose sole purpose in comics has been the constant pain and anger over the death of his parents is finally allowed to no longer suffer and get the life he deserves for all his sacrifice.

it's ballsy and despite being a fictional character, I truly want him to have the happy ending that so many comic book characters deserve but never get.

Agreed and just re: Selina and Bruce shacking up, it doesn't necessarily mean that they love each other. They may end up falling in love but I just saw the ending as two people finding solace in one another. They both needed a fresh start away from Gotham, why not do it together? I mean it's not as if a potential romance wasn't hinted at anyway, it was clear that they had chemistry and liked each other.

 

[Greens]

he's putting his pee in her veegee

that's fairly certain

Cotillard and Hathaway. He's good.

 

[UaalaDan]

There has ALWAYS been romantic tension between Batman and Catwoman in the comics. Hell, they even secks for a few panels every once in a while. This was present in this film as well. They kiss twice (okay maybe the first one doesn't count). Selina tried to convince him to escape with her, but he didn't want to leave Gotham to burn. Selina and Bruce save Gotham, mission accomplished, Selina gets her clean slate, Bruce fakes his death, they leave. Bruce ending up with Selina is not a big stretch. He finally got over Maggie Gylalalhehek.

Really? It is present in the comcis, cartoons and even Batman Returns. I didnt think there was romantic tension between them at all in TDKR. Not like Keaton and Pfeiffer even though Catwoman is better portrayed in TDKR. I also thought she wasn't sexy at all.

 

[flaffman]

no.

you really cannot beat reasoned debate on internet fora

 

[LostSon88]

Totally. He is supposed to be the next Batman in the movie. Not Robin. Bruce even gives him walk-talkie and all..maybe to talk to Gordon. I have no doubt in my mind that Nolan's Bruce gave up of being Batman forever to live a life with Selina. And John Blake is the new Batman. That's what's in the movie.

I hate it but it is what it is.

It's ambiguous. There's nothing to suggest he explicitly becomes the next Batman. He could be Robin, or even Nightwing.

Only thing for sure is that he will carry on the legacy.

 

[kthevs]

That doesn't matter because he loved her. He didn't love Selina at all in the movie. It was never shown he wanted to have a relationship with her. And then, in the end, it just appears out of nowhere. Nolan should've cut the the BS and fat of the movie(Foley,etc) to explore better the characters that were REALLY important.

As Nolan and others pointed out, Selina brings out life in him after his 8 year slump.

While he doesn't full on love her, he has some feelings for her that will grow. Selina on the other hand seems to fall for him, hard. It's just like in BTAS, where Selina is infatuated by Batman.

 

[kthevs]

There's really nothing at the end that suggests they're madly in love.

He's just with her at the cafe.

It's fairly ambigious as to the nature of their relationship.

Love? Maybe not. But they're a couple. There's a reason selina tells him to leave with her. She's fallen for him just like in the comics, and in BTAS. She's never met anyone like him, and the kiss at the end sums up the passion she has for him.

 

[Reikowolf]

you really cannot beat reasoned debate on internet fora

Sorry, that was rather abrupt. I apologize if it was brash.

this MTV interview with Bale clears up the ending in that Bruce Wayne lives

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1690203/dark-knight-rises-ending-christian-bale.jhtml