The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 5

[UaalaDan]

Yeah, I got that. But still, Bruce should've stayed and train Blake, something like Batman Beyond or Dark Knight Returns. This would've been way more in character with the Batman I know while still fitting the Nolanverse and realism.

Bruce is not an ordinary man and only him can be Batman. Blake can be Nightwing, Batman Beyond or something but not THE BATMAN!

 

[Broker]

That IS NOT the Batman I've been reading in the comics all these years.

Which comic are you referring to because the Batman comics I read are not consistant in their representation?

 

[UaalaDan]

IDK...Im not a Batman fanatic. But going by Dark Knight Returns or TAS, you know? Bruce never quit and when he did, it was shown that it was never for a long time and that he couldn't. Maybe something like this can be dealt in future movies or in JLA.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

what he means, i believe, is that no version of batman has altered from the idea that to bruce wayne, batman is living. bruce wayne is the mask.

 

[Broker]

batman lives on in the spirit of whatever form blake's version of the dark knight will become

Exactly, well said.

 

[UaalaDan]

what he means, i believe, is that no version of batman has altered from the idea that to bruce wayne, batman is living. bruce wayne is the mask.

Yeah.

 

[Broker]

IDK...Im not a Batman fanatic. But going by Dark Knight Returns or TAS, you know? Bruce never quit and when he did, it was shown that it was never for a long time and that he couldn't. Maybe something like this can be dealt in future movies or in JLA.

Do you not see the fallacy in criticising a film for not being consistant with the comics when the comics themselves are not consistant?

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

but his problem isn't with the dark knight continuing on. it's the fact that no one depicts bruce wayne as willingly walking away from the bat (permanently) in the comics. either no one has thought to do this or been able to come up with a logical story arc to take the character any further.

to some it might seem like sacrilege for nolan to divert from this approach.

i think it plants the story firmly in a realistic world - and takes the possibility of what batman can represent to new heights.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

i say it is innovation - not sacrilege

 

[UaalaDan]

Yeah, that's ok. It's his vision and all. I just don't have to like it, you know? The other movies didn't make me question his interpretation like this one.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

i gotcha.

i read an interview with nolan, or maybe goyer. he said back when they started writing batman begins they knew where they wanted to take the character, and knew it would be controversial. he said he got a lump in his throat when he saw it on screen finally.

they knew all along they were going to take batman here if they got the chance to make enough movies and had enough creative control to make it happen. the progression of the character through the previous two films is meant to bring batman/bruce to the conclusion we see in TDKR.

check it out a synopsis and link to full interview here: http://screenrant.com/dark-knight-rises-riddler-dicaprio-catwoman-kofi-176254/

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

i totally respect your opinion that TDKR's characterization was flawed in some ways. i absolutely cannot deny you that. though i wish i could convince you otherwise...somehow....

haha

 

[Broker]

but his problem isn't with the dark knight continuing on. it's the fact that no one depicts bruce wayne as willingly walking away from the bat (permanently) in the comics. either no one has thought to do this or been able to come up with a logical story arc to take the character any further.

to some it might seem like sacrilege for nolan to divert from this approach.

i think it plants the story firmly in a realistic world - and takes the possibility of what batman can represent to new heights.

Well, I think Nolan wanted to focus on the character of Bruce Wayne and his relationships - which the comics by and large don't do.

Nolan telegraphed from the very first film that there was a life after Batman for Bruce.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

sorry i may have misread that article, it may have been 2008 when they finally had the closing scenes in mind. sorry if i put some inaccurate info out there - generally i try not to do that

 

[Broker]

Yeah, that's ok. It's his vision and all. I just don't have to like it, you know?

I understand that, and not liking it is one thing which we can all appreciate. There are elements which I am sure we all don't like and that is because we all have opinions.

But your argument has always been an expression of fact, that it "makes no sense."

As many have said, as as you allude to here, it makes perfect sense within the context of Nolan's vision.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

Broker i totally am with you on this issue, but that doesn't change the fact that we're discussing something that is very much open to opinion and interpretation. i see where others are coming from, but totally disagree.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

perhaps saying "it doesn't make sense" is a bit strong though, maybe rephrasing in the future to "it doesn't make sense to me"; could be that's the way it was worded earlier, but one seems like an expression of fact whereas the other seems like an expression of opinion.

 

[UaalaDan]

But hey, I watched the movie a second time and I like it a lot more then. I still give it an 8, probably 8,5. It's a great movie. It was just really hard to follow the plot on the first time I saw it 'cause I was kinda drunk and tired since the showing I went was 5:30 am on Saturday. Moreover, I couldn't understand a lot of the dialogue because the sound was so frickin loud at the IMAX theater I saw. Bane's voice doesn't help either.

But I still don't know if it's better than BB. TDK is definitely the masterpiece of this trilogy, imo, and the perfect Batman movie so far. But that's because it has my 2 favorite Batman villains of all time and Talia and Bane aren't as strong as Joker and Two-Face, imo.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

a lot of people have had complaints about the sound. maybe i was just lucky and was in a theater where things were balanced out pretty well.

TDK might be the masterpiece indeed, but i will have to watch this one many more times before i can say that for sure. ledger's performance is so ******' dark and funny and maniacal - unforgettable.

in terms of direction i think TDKR is the standout though. i say this because i love the progression of bruce wayne. i love the symbolic carry over from one movie to another, and where those symbols are taken in the conclusion.

i also like that nolan toys with some very zen/buddhist ideas. hope and despair are not separate, but one. you cannot have one without the other. just like justice and injustice are one in the same concept, divided only by extremism and interpretation by the individual. like a hero and a villain are one in the same - depending on perspective.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

i also like the exploration of fear throughout the trilogy. such a central element in the batman mythos - and everything in this trilogy is somehow connected to varying ideas of fear and how to combat/overcome it. especially the selection and characterization of the villains in each film.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

and finally (because after this i have to get some sleep) i love the way fear is handled in TDKR. what bruce learns in the pit is to re-learn the fear of death. essentially what i think this means is that bruce had to overcome his fear of facing his own fears. life is a series of tests, each moment we have to face our fears. bruce wayne buries his fear in batman and so he fears life, he fears the fact that living life means to face your fears every moment of every day. you cannot suppress fear totally, you cannot defeat it. you can only change your perspective on it, redefine it as something you can handle. bruce has to learn to how to be unafraid of being afraid. that's some deep stuff right there.

 

[UaalaDan]

This trilogy is easily the best Superhero trilogy of all time. No context. Even though I really like X-men, X-men 2 and X-men: First class. Forget Wolverine and X-men 3 though, lol.

Bring on Superman now!

 

[BlueLantern]

Hopefully your trollage can now end. Welcome to the land of the normal.

 

[UaalaDan]

LoL. Still not a masterpiece, imo. hahaha That is TDK to me. But that doesn't make this movie a bad one. Its damn good.

BTW, it's amazing what a second viewing can do to you. Now I really have no problems with the plot of this movie at all. Just a few gripes and stuff that I think could've been done better or differently, imo. And this feeling of correcting a movie was never present when I watched TDK.

 

[GalleryOfRogues]

This trilogy is easily the best Superhero trilogy of all time. No context. Even though I really like X-men, X-men 2 and X-men: First class. Forget Wolverine and X-men 3 though, lol.

Bring on Superman now!

comic con video of MoS looks ridonkulous - the cape flying in the wind, caville looking up to the sun and smiling, he and zod charging each other, supe's gettin slammed into a building (obviously shaken up by the force of impact)

gonna be real real tough for snyder to out-do nolan but what i've seen (which isn't nearly enough yet) looks like a crazy start; good thing nolan is on board as a producer.

and now...i rest
and hopefully it will be a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known...