Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 - - - - - - - - Part 17

[TheVision]

It probably wouldnt be much of a challenge for The Avengers if the ultimate brain (Tony) didnt create Ulty. Hes smarter than anyone in HYDRA

 

[marcvader]

But this shouldn't come off as Iron Man 4.

 

[ctsketch]

The situation is much worse in the comics since almost everyone is based in NY but its rare to see more than one property show up to beat the big bad at least in the movies the locations are spread out more: Tony is on the West Coast, Steve is in DC, Thor is in London or Asgard


SHIELD was told to back off in IM3? When? Where?

In the beginning when Tony and James were at the restaurant. Tony wanted to help and Rhodey said it's a US govt problem and they need to look strong since they didn't during the NY incident

 

[ctsketch]

It probably wouldnt be much of a challenge for The Avengers if the ultimate brain (Tony) didnt create Ulty. Hes smarter than anyone in HYDRA

ummmmm...this is not good reasoning....

 

[TheVision]

But this shouldn't come off as Iron Man 4.

Well its a given that Tony is a tinkerer, and with each film he creates a better suit than the last. It makes sense in the ongoing story that he would be reacting to whatever is the latest crisis in the MCU: SHIELD collapsing, HYDRA everywhere, them having the Scepter, finding out they were responsible for his parents deaths. Tony has a vengeful side as we saw in IM3. I think this combined with his intellect/creativity would drive him to create something truly badass, that would be James Spader as ULTRON the ultimate AI (not a suit). This is just speculation of course

 

[Shikamaru]

Tony creating Ultron is a terrible idea IMO. I don't think it would be a good idea to make the biggest a-hole in the Marvel universe be directly responsible for a genocidal machine. I thought Iron Man 3 already demonized Tony more than it needed to. The reason it worked with Hank Pym was because he was a likeable yet tragic character. Not that Tony isn't likeable, but he is a different type of likeable (the likeable a-hole).

All the Avengers should have a hand in creating Ultron. It would also lead to the public questioning whether or not the Avengers are an efficient substitute for SHIELD, whereas "Can Mr. Stark still be trusted to protect the world after this event?" is already covered ground in the MCU.

 

[BoredGuy]

I liked the idea of it being SHIELD's intel(mined over years by Cap, Widow, Hawkeye, etc.), mixed with the JARVIS AI, powered by gamma, and using the body of the Destroyer.

Not to say that's what I think it'll be, it seems kinda forced when ya write it all down, but I like them each having a small part in his creation, and Ultron having basically "Avengers Protocols" based on his intimate knowledge of each of them.

 

[TheVision]

@Shika: haha "the biggest A-hole in the MCU".

I think I said this awhile back but my other idea was that ULTRON is actually Tony's alter-ego. James Spader is the unbridled, evil side of Tony. As we know he's already a pretty egotistical, super smart dude. So take the Tony we saw in the opening of IM 2 and multiply it by 1000 but evil, that wouldnt be good for anyone.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Why would the Avengers creating Ultron and then stopping Ultron prove them ineffective as replacements for SHIELD?

 

[cherokeesam]

It's a plot hole in the overarching story. You could call it a plot hole in the Avengers franchise if you had to nail it down. The plot hole existing in the comics doesn't make it not a plot hole. Unless the movies explain them as pocket universes, then again, that's just fan theory.

Edit: According to IM3, the rest of the Avengers exist. Is it not referring to the characters from Avengers and their respectively solo films? If so, then the hole actually would be within the film, again, if not for Rhodey's subtle implication that the US wanted to handle it themselves.

I don't think the "comic-book" Avengers exist in the MCU yet. What you've got is a loose group of heroes who were called up to take out a specific threat --- i.e., Loki and the Chitauri. At the end of the movie, the team split up and went their separate ways. Yes, we have evidence that Tony is remodeling Stark Tower to become Avengers Tower, and I'm certain that we'll see a genuine "Avengers Assemble!" in AoU. But there's a subtle hint in the set pics we've seen for AoU from Korea: this is the first and only time we've seen an actual Avengers logo on Cap's costume.

They become a formal team at some point in AoU, but for now, they're just heroes out doing their own thing.

It probably wouldnt be much of a challenge for The Avengers if the ultimate brain (Tony) didnt create Ulty. Hes smarter than anyone in HYDRA

Arnim Zola says hello.

And sneers at this petty son of Howard Stark. Arnim Zola was making battlesuits like Iron Man's 80 years ago. Arnim Zola not only figured out how to use one of the most powerful alien artifacts in the universe: he also harnessed its power and turned it into an assembly line to mass-produce weapons that are still about half a century ahead of existing military technology. Arnim Zola created a program to find and kill not only existing superheroes, but also people who might someday *become* superheroes. Arnim Zola cheated death and transferred his mind and soul into the Internet, where he still lurks. Arnim Zola organized and led a HYDRA infiltration that took seventy years, and he did it right under the nose of Nicholas Mother-Effin' Fury himself. And, oh yeah, Arnim Zola murdered Tony Stark's parents and nobody even *thought* to open an investigation into that.

And Arnim Zola did all this in a bunker, forty+ -someodd years ago. With Commodore 64s and UNIVACs. After he was, you know, officially dead and stuff.

Tony Stark is no Arnim Zola.

 

[The Endless]

Just rewatched TWS. Pierce mentions "Now we've lost Zola" or something like that. And of course Zola said "We are both... OUT OF TIME!" Plus all those databanks housing his consciousness are destroyed.

Zola is most likely done for. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me if some semblance of his consciousness remains somewhere.

 

[TheVision]

cherokeesam:

I harken back to Obi Stane who growled to a scientist: Tony Stark made the arc reactor out a box of scraps!

Tony will ALWAYS be ahead of the curve. Arnim Zola is an amatuer.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

And of course Zola said "We are both... OUT OF TIME!" Plus all those databanks housing his consciousness are destroyed.

Of course he would say that. He wouldn't say "Right now I am uploading myself to a Starbucks in Nebraska. Should you survive this exploding we will meet again!"

or he could have been simply saying "This conversation is over"

At any rate, it all depends on if they want to use him again. If they don't he'll stay dead. If they do, explaining it is the easiest thing in the world.

 

[marcvader]

They're all children playing with tinker toys compared to Reed Richards but alas he no in MCU.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I still like the idea that all the Avengers are responsible for Ultron, indirectly. Things Cap did in WWII, Widow as a Russian spy, etc.

 

[TheVision]

Tony Stark Esquire

[YT]KSvvLOYcYto[/YT]

 

[cherokeesam]

cherokeesam:

I harken back to Obi Stane who growled to a scientist: Tony Stark made the arc reactor out a box of scraps!

Tony will ALWAYS be ahead of the curve. Arnim Zola is an amatuer.

In all honesty, Tony *should* be ahead of the curve, because he's the hero and heroes win in the MCU. But saying things like "Arnim Zola is an amateur" and "Tony Stark is smarter than anybody in HYDRA" are just patently ridiculous. Arnim Zola is the greatest criminal mastermind in the MCU right now, bar none. Loki and Thanos are definitely more powerful, and even lesser villains are. But *none* are as brilliant as Zola. He is THE Mad Scientist Supreme in the MCU.

 

[Crimson King]

I didn't get the impression that it was Zola running the HYDRA threat after Skulls defeat, but rather that he was an important cog in the takeover. In TWS, he kept describing things HYDRA did during the 70 years of Capscicle rather than things he explicitly accomplished.

 

[BoredGuy]

yeah from TFA and the TWS, I've always gotten the impression that he was a tool for Hydra to use. An extremely intelligent tool, but a tool nonetheless. Nothing about Zola's personality seems to say he runs Hydra. Hell in TFA he was even reluctant saying Hail Hydra, not to mention being the only one willing to give the SSR info on Red Skull's plans without killing himself first. Zola is self-serving, not a Hydra zealot

 

[Shikamaru]

@Shika: haha "the biggest A-hole in the MCU".

I think I said this awhile back but my other idea was that ULTRON is actually Tony's alter-ego. James Spader is the unbridled, evil side of Tony. As we know he's already a pretty egotistical, super smart dude. So take the Tony we saw in the opening of IM 2 and multiply it by 1000 but evil, that wouldnt be good for anyone.

We've already had the "evil side of Tony" in each Iron Man film. From Stane all the way to the now-fake Mandarin (Killian). That would be redundant IMO.

 

[Ant-manic]

cherokeesam:

I harken back to Obi Stane who growled to a scientist: Tony Stark made the arc reactor out a box of scraps!

Tony will ALWAYS be ahead of the curve. Arnim Zola is an amatuer.

Tony will always be ahead of the curve. but he's yet to give anyone superpowers. Pym, Raina, Maya Hansen, Killian, and Erskine seemed to have figured it out; to some extent.

 

[Moridin]

They weren't but Rhodey made it clear the Mandarin thing was being handled strictly by the US Military. He didn't even want Stark involved. Stark only got involved when it became personal with Happy put in a coma.

And when Stark and Rhodey tried to inform the authorities about the President's capture, the VP was shown to be corrupt (possibly Hydra?). Plus the President's capture and the finale all happened within a few hours.

Exactly. There is no plot hole.

But this shouldn't come off as Iron Man 4.

If Whedon didn't make the first one "Iron Man & Friends", why on earth do people think he'll do that for for AoU?? That makes no sense.

Just rewatched TWS. Pierce mentions "Now we've lost Zola" or something like that. And of course Zola said "We are both... OUT OF TIME!" Plus all those databanks housing his consciousness are destroyed.

Zola is most likely done for. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me if some semblance of his consciousness remains somewhere.

I think it's likely he escaped on the USB key Natasha used.

 

[TheVision]

All comments duly noted! I just hope Tony comes out on top of this!

 

[PyroChamber]

Wow, reading all these comments makes me even more excited over what's in store for the MCU!

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Need....new....pics