BvS The Batsuit Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 33

[rockandrollsoul]

Warning, rant ahead, please read carefully:

For crying out loud. Either people don't get Batman or he's been changed in the last few years. I keep seeing this stupid argument of how Batman needs to show emotions. Seriously?? A guy who is supposed to LOOK like a creature more than a man and is mostly working in shadows to frighten and intimidate criminals, he's supposed to show off emotion? When the heck did that suddenly get associated to Batman? As far as I'm concerned, he's supposed to do the exact opposite, and be this uncompromising object of fear.

Another thing that you anti-lenses people keep bringing up, as you are more vocal than us lenses fans since we're always told to just sit down and accept YOUR opinion that they will never work. Just because the live action movies support your agenda FOR NOW, doesn't imply they will never work. Just like people used the black suit argument before. It suited their agenda until someone DID finally pull it off. Now everyone is on the bandwagon.

I swear, people on this forum change their tune to whatever is popular. Stop being so sheep and trying to get brownie points on the hype for being with the popular opinions just to seem cool.

Seriously can't stand people telling others to just drop it, while those people are getting their wish and we're not. If you don't like seeing people talk about the suit, aspects that can be improved and things we hope to see, then stay out of this thread. It's not a one trick pony show here, let people talk about what they are passionate for, after all we're all huge Batman fans.

END RANT!

First off, expressing things like rage, distaste, and even detachment is expressing emotion. Batman shouldn't be a drama queen, but he shouldn't be a block of wood, either. There should be a lot of subtlety in his performance; a lot going on beneath the surface. This is something that is brilliantly demonstrated in the teaser scene mostly utilizing his eyes. Take that away and you take away that subtlety. The actor would either have to work overtime with the lower half of his face (see Dredd) or come off as lifeless and boring. Either way, I think it's hard to argue that that scene specifically wouldn't work as well with his eyes covered.

Secondly, I have never said that lenses couldn't work, just that it would be at the expense of performance. Since they're not a necessary part of the character (as demonstrated by every Batman movie, some comics, and the Arkham games), I don't think it's worth losing that. It would literally mean choosing style over substance.

Finally, yes you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree with it. This has nothing to do with popular opinion, nor does it make me a sheep: if they had gone with lenses for Batfleck, I'd be against it. Also, this isn't at all like the black and grey debate (something that I've always been for), as the color of the costume does not directly effect the actor's performance.

 

[The Shape]

Warning, rant ahead, please read carefully:

For crying out loud. Either people don't get Batman or he's been changed in the last few years. I keep seeing this stupid argument of how Batman needs to show emotions. Seriously?? A guy who is supposed to LOOK like a creature more than a man and is mostly working in shadows to frighten and intimidate criminals, he's supposed to show off emotion? When the heck did that suddenly get associated to Batman? As far as I'm concerned, he's supposed to do the exact opposite, and be this uncompromising object of fear.

Another thing that you anti-lenses people keep bringing up, as you are more vocal than us, we're always told to just sit down and accept YOUR opinion that they will never work. Just because the live action movies support your agenda FOR NOW, doesn't imply they will never work. Just like people used the black suit argument before. It suited their agenda until someone DID finally pull it off. Now everyone is on the bandwagon.

I swear, people on this forum change their tune to whatever is popular. Stop being so sheep and trying to get brownie points on the hype for being with the popular opinions just to seem cool.

Seriously can't stand people telling others to just drop it, while those people are getting their wish and we're not. If you don't like seeing people talk about the suit, aspects that can be improved and things we hope to see, then stay out of this thread. It's not a one trick pony show here, let people talk about what they are passionate for, after all we're all huge Batman fans.

END RANT!

There, there.

 

[Reel-Man]

Someone had to say it. Now we can carry on the same debate as if nothing happened.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

First off, expressing things like rage, distaste, and even detachment is expressing emotion. Batman shouldn't be a drama queen, but he shouldn't be a block of wood, either. There should be a lot of subtlety in his performance; a lot going on beneath the surface. This is something that is brilliantly demonstrated in the teaser scene mostly utilizing his eyes. Take that away and you take away that subtlety. The actor would either have to work overtime with the lower half of his face (see Dredd) or come off as lifeless and boring. Either way, I think it's hard to argue that that scene specifically wouldn't work as well with his eyes covered.

Secondly, I have never said that lenses couldn't work, just that it would be at the expense of performance. Since they're not a necessary part of the character (as demonstrated by every Batman movie, some comics, and the Arkham games), I don't think it's worth losing that. It would literally mean choosing style over substance.

Finally, yes you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree with it. This has nothing to do with popular opinion, nor does it make me a sheep: if they had gone with lenses for Batfleck, I'd be against it. Also, this isn't at all like the black and grey debate (something that I've always been for), as the color of the costume does not directly effect the actor's performance.

Agreed with everything here. There's a reason why we've over 5 generations worth of live action batmans and not one has had white eyes. If anyone was gonna do it Snyder would've been the man for it, hell Wilkinson even designed the concept art with white contact lenses yet they still didn't do it there's all reason why.

 

[Mad Love]

Alright, here it is. Couple of versions with Black Panther's eyes.

Looks good. Lenses look more intimidating.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

Agreed with everything here. There's a reason why we've over 5 generations worth of live action batmans and not one has had white eyes. If anyone was gonna do it Snyder would've been the man for it, hell Wilkinson even designed the concept art with white contact lenses yet they still didn't do it there's all reason why.

 

[Reel-Man]

Agreed with everything here. There's a reason why we've over 5 generations worth of live action batmans and not one has had white eyes. If anyone was gonna do it Snyder would've been the man for it, hell Wilkinson even designed the concept art with white contact lenses yet they still didn't do it there's all reason why.

Because it's a safe choice. This is Hollywood, who takes risks anymore. They always go the safe route. We got half assed lenses in TDK but that made him look like cat-man. One day someone will have him wear lenses, just a matter of time. It take a brilliant designer and a courageous director who doesn't compromise. Snyder can get away with it because he finally brought us the black and grey suit of "fabric" finally. Which is why some of us are this disappointed of not getting the lenses. As you said, if anyone was to do it, I hope it was Snyder too but he didn't. The wait continues. I'm at least half happy as we get them on the mech suit and it looks amazing.

 

[Superherofan123]

Hate the lenses..most comics don't draw them. It looks great in the cartoons because they are expressive. Imagine if spiderman's eyes in the movies were expressive like they were in the cartoon; it would look rediculous. It works for Deadpool because it's deadpool.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Snyder is just a fanboy as many of us here. He gave us the color scheme most of us thought we would never see. If he didn't go with them, I trust him.

 

[Reel-Man]

First off, expressing things like rage, distaste, and even detachment is expressing emotion. Batman shouldn't be a drama queen, but he shouldn't be a block of wood, either. There should be a lot of subtlety in his performance; a lot going on beneath the surface. This is something that is brilliantly demonstrated in the teaser scene mostly utilizing his eyes. Take that away and you take away that subtlety. The actor would either have to work overtime with the lower half of his face (see Dredd) or come off as lifeless and boring. Either way, I think it's hard to argue that that scene specifically wouldn't work as well with his eyes covered.

This argument is all based on assumptions. We have yet to see a rendition with his eyes covered and only then can we say if it was or wasn't effective in conveying this "emotion" you guys crave so much. Batman only needs to display anger and be intimidating. Any other reaction belong to his Bruce Wayne scenes. Think of JL animated series. He was 99% of the time the blunt, cold character which never broke this cold stance. Even superman would remark how Batman doesn't have much of a sense of humour and such. Yet here these emotions are all introduced by Snyder to make their dynamic very cop buddies like.

Secondly, I have never said that lenses couldn't work, just that it would be at the expense of performance. Since they're not a necessary part of the character (as demonstrated by every Batman movie, some comics, and the Arkham games), I don't think it's worth losing that. It would literally mean choosing style over substance.

You're cherry picking here. I could say the same from the other side of the coin. Example, he's been drawn 90% or more of the time with the white slits/lenses. A couple of movies with lazy costumes, movies in which he had nipples for some, not exactly a great example of smart design choices. If you take the amount of times and all the year he's been represented with them versus without, I find you'll get a better representation than just going "he had eyes visible in these mediums so it's clearly representative".

Finally, yes you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree with it. This has nothing to do with popular opinion, nor does it make me a sheep: if they had gone with lenses for Batfleck, I'd be against it. Also, this isn't at all like the black and grey debate (something that I've always been for), as the color of the costume does not directly effect the actor's performance.

Yes it is an opinion but that doesn't give the vocal anti-lenses crowd a right to say "keep quiet, they are not using lenses, therefor we're 100% right and no other opinion is tolerated". That's extremely elitist and reeks of self entitlement. You guys have had no lenses for 8 movies now, don't be so greedy. I think it's our turn to have at least one movie where he has them. I don't think that's asking too much.

Hate the lenses..most comics don't draw them. It looks great in the cartoons because they are expressive. Imagine if spiderman's eyes in the movies were expressive like they were in the cartoon; it would look rediculous. It works for Deadpool because it's deadpool.

If you mean most comics don't draw the eyes, then you are correct. Otherwise you're just making something up to support your statement. A few different comic books here and there isn't "most" by any standards. Unless of course you're against the idea then any argument is legitimate I suppose.

Im done with this. I'll probably keep getting replies back using the same excuses on why they are bad. I've seen all the arguments and they have been addressed many times before by members here that like the lenses idea. There's nothing more to add. Just be respectful of why some of us still post manips and talk about lenses. Don't get all high and mighty thinking we can't discuss it here just because they aren't used. It's a forum and we can. All discuss the Batsuit. Otherwise what's the point in having this topic? Might as well sit on our buts and wait for march if we can't talk about all things Batsuit related.

 

[Boy Scout]

This post makes me sad.

It shouldn't.

That's not to say that Batman never shows emotion, or shouldn't show emotion; it's just that he often doesn't.

Honestly, the best compromise would be retractable lenses.

 

[Sawyer]

Alright, here it is. Couple of versions with Black Panther's eyes.

Meh. Doesn't necessarily look bad, but I still pass.

 

[KillerWolf]

I come to "Ben Affleck" thread and I see people debating his weight, shape and comparing it to the one from "The Town". I come here and people are debating the white lenses vs no lenses look... did I travel back in time or something?

 

[The Shape]

Meh. Doesn't necessarily look bad, but I still pass.

Of course it doesn't look bad in a still image, but I can't imagine it being a truly effective look in live action for the duration of a film.

 

[Reel-Man]

I come to "Ben Affleck" thread and I see people debating his weight, shape and comparing it to the one from "The Town". I come here and people are debating the white lenses vs no lenses look... did I travel back in time or something?

It is the hype after all. There's only so much we can discuss without running in circles. The "long" wait to March is on now.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I haven't liked any Manips with lenses

The new Batman cowl is truly perfect especially the way it looked in the new trailer

 

[Reel-Man]

Of course it doesn't look bad in a still image, but I can't imagine it being a truly effective look in live action for the duration of a film.

Even though i'm pro lenses, it doesn't suit a cowl like the one in the film. It was obviously designed without lenses in mind. I find the cheekbones area and the brow don't work well with them here. The best cowl that would work brilliantly with lenses in my opinion, it would be one that's a bit more form fitting almost to the point of having the ability of movement work with the material. Who knows if that's feasible to pull off or if they have the technology to pull it off.

I haven't liked any Manips with lenses

The new Batman cowl is truly perfect especially the way it looked in the new trailer

I honestly LOVE the cowl and whole suit, i'm just wishful thinking of what it could have looked like with that extra cherry on the cake. The only nitpick i have is the brow area looking too thick in some scene (Knightmare Batman).

 

[KillerWolf]

It is the hype after all. There's only so much we can discuss without running in circles. The "long" wait to March is on now.

Yeah, well, you'll forgive me if I don't decide to stay and take a part in it.

Bye.

 

[Reel-Man]

Yeah, well, you'll forgive me if I don't decide to stay and take a part in it.

Bye.

It's a good thing we'll never have to thank you.

 

[NateHevens]

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I guess some people need a reminder?

So we got lenses...

And they didn't work out too well...

I'm not on the side that wants lenses
but this is, and always has been a weak argument against them.

 

[Reel-Man]

I'm not on the side that wants lenses
but this is, and always has been a weak argument against them.

Cat-Man strikes back!

 

[rockandrollsoul]

This argument is all based on assumptions. We have yet to see a rendition with his eyes covered and only then can we say if it was or wasn't effective in conveying this "emotion" you guys crave so much. Batman only needs to display anger and be intimidating. Any other reaction belong to his Bruce Wayne scenes. Think of JL animated series. He was 99% of the time the blunt, cold character which never broke this cold stance. Even superman would remark how Batman doesn't have much of a sense of humour and such. Yet here these emotions are all introduced by Snyder to make their dynamic very cop buddies like.

Who's making assumptions, now?

My argument is based on experience and education: an actor's performance is limited by having their eyes obscured. That may be a compromise you're okay with (and that's valid), but it's a compromise none-the-less.

I also disagree that Batman only needs to display anger and be intimidating, but even if that were the case, I believe an actor's eyes can communicate that better than lenses (practical or cg) could ever hope to.

You're cherry picking here. I could say the same from the other side of the coin. Example, he's been drawn 90% or more of the time with the white slits/lenses. A couple of movies with lazy costumes, movies in which he had nipples for some, not exactly a great example of smart design choices. If you take the amount of times and all the year he's been represented with them versus without, I find you'll get a better representation than just going "he had eyes visible in these mediums so it's clearly representative".

You misunderstood me. I realize he's depicted with lenses 90% of the time. My examples were illustrating that, in arguably his most popular and mainstream depictions, he does not have the lenses and he's still recognizably Batman. It's not a defining physical characteristic as much as say his cape and cowl.

Yes it is an opinion but that doesn't give the vocal anti-lenses crowd a right to say "keep quiet, they are not using lenses, therefor we're 100% right and no other opinion is tolerated". That's extremely elitist and reeks of self entitlement. You guys have had no lenses for 8 movies now, don't be so greedy. I think it's our turn to have at least one movie where he has them. I don't think that's asking too much.

I (nor anyone else here that I'm aware of) has said this. You are free to express you're opinion. That said, this same debate gets started up every other day, so I have the right to express my opinion that the debate has grown tiresome.

Im done with this. I'll probably keep getting replies back using the same excuses on why they are bad. I've seen all the arguments and they have been addressed many times before by members here that like the lenses idea. There's nothing more to add. Just be respectful of why some of us still post manips and talk about lenses. Don't get all high and mighty thinking we can't discuss it here just because they aren't used. It's a forum and we can. All discuss the Batsuit. Otherwise what's the point in having this topic? Might as well sit on our buts and wait for march if we can't talk about all things Batsuit related.

Again, you're free to express yourself and I don't think anyone's being disrespectful. However, if someone posts a manip or opinon, I will express my opinion in response, as is the point of these forums.

Honestly, the best compromise would be retractable lenses.

I would be ok with this for a "detective mode" situation, but I'd rather not have them at all

 

[rockandrollsoul]

I'm not on the side that wants lenses
but this is, and always has been a weak argument against them.

Agreed. They could certainly to a better job than that.

 

[Reel-Man]

Thanks for the reply rockandrollsoul, i should have specified that not everything was directed at you. It was addressing a general trend i have noticed any time this debate comes up. I did reply to you but it was also a more general response.

Who's making assumptions, now?

That's based on the trailer where they have the exchange "i thought she was with you". I'm not a fan of that scenes as it makes the type of dynamic i referred to. I prefer the one as mentioned, JL animated series and other DC/WB cartoon where Superman was light hearted and Batman always the non-compromising character. Hopefully it's just a scene and the rest of the time they are still two different characters that contrast well with one another rather than just seeming like two "dudes" in costumes hanging out and dishing out one-liners.

As for the eyes argument, i am often thinking of V for Vendetta for a great performance that conveys a lot of emotion without ever showing the actor's face. I find it brings out the best in actors when they are limited and they can't use their faces so much to get emotions across. There was also some other performance that i recall seeing but can't quite point my finger at them right now. I'll see if i can remember/find out which ones.