BvS The Batsuit Thread - - - - - - - Part 30

[Sam Kaczka]

"Hey guys, what if we ignore all those wonderful batman stories and base the movie batman on that one crappy story i once wrote? It has "earth One" on the cover and it's a "graphic novel" for serious readers and stuff.

Why? Because i'm the boss, that's why."

God damn DC. The company where Daniels and Finch are "superstar artists" but Paquette, Nguyen, Chiang, Cameron and Irving arent. The company that pushed away Mark Waid because of personal feuds but hired Rob Liefeld.

[YT]watch?v=yPhlWKi9uKQ[/YT]

Liefeld. What a ****.

 

[KillerWolf]

"Drawing and Driving"? Well that explains a lot.

 

[regwec]

Is there a Rob Liefeld appreciation thread? There needs to be, if not.

 

[Boy Scout]

I just want to know that I'm not alone when I say that I like this armored exoskeleton better than Iron Man's suit.

If you're referring to the Mark I, then I'm right there with you.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I don't know that I'd go so far as to say it's better than Iron Man's suits (other than the Mark I) but it's definitely awesome.

However, the other Batfleck costume trumps ANY Iron Man suit, in my book, if only because it's pretty much the TDKR/Hush Batsuit brought to life.

 

[Boy Scout]

I don't want to get my hopes up, but I REALLY want to the solo films to be prequels, with a thinner Batman (and a first appearance style cowl for part of the first movie).

I would rather see consistent progression. Batman's history should absolutely be explored, but it should be done within the context of the present day.

Or mixed present day/flashback stories.

I don't think I'd have a problem with that.

In my opinion they should have started at his 3rd or 4th year as Batman, the time where he adopted Robin.

That would've been my preference, but it's too late now.

And yes i want Robin to be a kid, because screw your realisms and your logic.

No thank you.

According to the article the movie will be a continuation from the events of BvS and JL....so no prequel

Yep.

And yes, I'd love to see a real teenage Robin. The Daredevil show had some scenes with a very young Matt learning to fight with Stick, and I didn't feel it was silly at all - so a 14 Year Old Robin for me would be great.

I think Robin should start training at fourteen and be ready to go out and actually fight crime at fifteen or sixteen. Even then, I don't think Bruce should train him with the intention of wanting Dick to follow in his footsteps. Not until he become a grown man, anyway.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I only want teen/kid Robin in flashbacks.
I like the character but I'd rather they just skip ahead to nightwing and red hood.

Tim isn't really needed IMO

 

[KillerWolf]

Yeah, I see that some folks want bat-family, but I don't care much for it, to be honest. Still, if included, I'd draw a line with Nightwing and Oracle (who never was Batgirl). Oh, and dead Jason Todd.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Yeah, I see that some folks want bat-family, but I don't care much for it, to be honest. Still, if included, I'd draw a line with Nightwing and Oracle (who never was Batgirl). Oh, and dead Jason Todd.

I feel the same way. I am fond of the bat-family in the comics but I really don't care to see the extended family in the live action films. I definitely don't want a Robin (young Robin) if they are to give Batman an ally. I wouldn't mind seeing Nightwing and Oracle though. I feel they are appropriate allies for this older, experienced Batman.

 

[antoineflemming]

Yeah, I see that some folks want bat-family, but I don't care much for it, to be honest. Still, if included, I'd draw a line with Nightwing and Oracle (who never was Batgirl). Oh, and dead Jason Todd.

Yeah. I want Bat Family. Nightwing, Batgirl, and Batwing. Dead Jason Todd. Batman isn't a loner. Enough movies have come out where he's been a loner. It's about time we get a proper story with Batman and his allies. And I want Court of Owls not only because of it's story but because it features the Bat Family in action. Nightwing is a given. I want Batgirl because I don't want someone stuck behind a computer, not participating in the action. I want all hands on deck. I want Batwing (Luke Fox), and not Tim Drake or Damian, because 1) since he flies, that provides some different visuals than having three people in addition to Batman who are on the ground doing similar things, 2) he's black, and diversifies the cast (as does Batgirl in the field), and 3) he's an MMA fighter, so his fighting could be done differently than Batman (I really don't expect Batman to fight like an MMA fighter). Batgirl and Nightwing could also fight in different ways. So that's why I want the Bat Family. Because it's long overdue. Again, Batman isn't a loner. He's had allies in the comics, and within this shared universe, it'd be good to get that on screen, and to have it done right on screen.

 

[KillerWolf]

I feel the same way. I am fond of the bat-family in the comics but I really don't care to see the extended family in the live action films. I definitely don't want a Robin (young Robin) if they are to give Batman an ally. I wouldn't mind seeing Nightwing and Oracle though. I feel they are appropriate allies for this older, experienced Batman.

Yeah, Nightwing as ex-colleague and someone who knows Bruce better than anyone (aside from Alfred) adds not just an interesting father-son dynamic, but also a more human side and same goes with Oracle, which I find is pretty much needed addition for Batman in 21st century, when you think about it. Though I'd never make Batman in constant contact with her and generally as tech-reliant as he is in Arkham games.

But I also won't miss the two if they don't appear in this universe. Given that Batman already works in team in Justice League, I feel that in his solo films he should be, well, solo. t:

Yeah. I want Bat Family. Nightwing, Batgirl, and Batwing. Dead Jason Todd. Batman isn't a loner. Enough movies have come out where he's been a loner. It's about time we get a proper story with Batman and his allies. And I want Court of Owls not only because of it's story but because it features the Bat Family in action. Nightwing is a given. I want Batgirl because I don't want someone stuck behind a computer, not participating in the action. I want all hands on deck. I want Batwing (Luke Fox), and not Tim Drake or Damian, because 1) since he flies, that provides some different visuals than having three people in addition to Batman who are on the ground doing similar things, 2) he's black, and diversifies the cast (as does Batgirl in the field), and 3) he's an MMA fighter, so his fighting could be done differently than Batman (I really don't expect Batman to fight like an MMA fighter). Batgirl and Nightwing could also fight in different ways. So that's why I want the Bat Family. Because it's long overdue. Again, Batman isn't a loner. He's had allies in the comics, and within this shared universe, it'd be good to get that on screen, and to have it done right on screen.

That's a lot of characters to handle. By the way I thought David Zavimbe is Batwing...?

Anyway, I pretty much entirely disagree.

Well, I agree that Batman is not a loner in literal sense of the word, but I really have no interest in seeing every single crime fighter in costume, and I feel that it kind of takes away from what makes character of Batman extraordinary and his crusade against crime so commendable.
And I especially don't want those that are bat-themed such are Batgirl and Batwing, as it takes away from Batman in whole another sense.

To me it would be perfect to have Nigthwing, as experienced and younger fellow crime fighter that used to work with Batman, Oracle, since someone with such high computer skills befits Batman perfectly, especially a modern world version of the character and Jason Todd, a second colleague of his that fell victim of his crusade, making him more rough and hardened, as result. And it also shows the audience how tough and dangerous Gotham City and life as a crime fighter are, and what happens when non-superpowered human being takes on him/herself to fight crime on their own. Again, it makes Batman (and Nightwing) more extraordinary by comparison.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Yeah, Nightwing as ex-colleague and someone who knows Bruce better than anyone (aside from Alfred) adds not just an interesting father-son dynamic, but also a more human side and same goes with Oracle, which I find is pretty much needed addition for Batman in 21st century, when you think about it. Though I'd never make Batman in constant contact with her and generally as tech-reliant as he is in Arkham games.

But I also won't miss the two if they don't appear in this universe. Given that Batman already works in team in Justice League, I feel that in his solo films he should be, well, solo. t:

And if I do end up liking this Batman very much, the last thing I want to see for his solo is less of him. Although if ever they want to do a solo Batman film with the inclusion of the Bat-family, I wouldn't mind seeing one based of the Bruce Wayne Murderer arc. That was good.

 

[KillerWolf]

And if I do end up liking this Batman very much, the last thing I want to see for his solo is less of him. Although if ever they want to do a solo Batman film with the inclusion of the Bat-family, I wouldn't mind seeing one based of the Bruce Wayne Murderer arc. That was good.

It's quite unlikely that we'll get it, but now I really want a movie based of this story. I like the idea very much.

 

[antoineflemming]

But having allies, especially Bat-themed allies, adds to Batman, not detracts. One, it makes it all the more believable that Batman could even have the notion that he could save Gotham City, by training more people to aid in that effort. Two, it plays into the idea of Batman always being prepared. Having multiple allies is his insurance policy if he is ever killed or even when he eventually dies. Why? Because, in this way, he knows that there will always be someone defending and protecting Gotham. How is it that we can be against the Bat Family showing up yet in support of an anti-hero like Catwoman showing up? It makes sense for Batman to have allies who are fighting alongside him and under his tutelage/training. Third, there's absolutely nothing wrong with other Bat-themed heroes. Contrarily, having Bat-themed heroes reinforces the idea that Batman has inspired others. As for how this could fit with a Batman v Superman where Batman is alone in Gotham? Simple. Batman has pushed his allies away in the wake of Jason Todd's death and a deteriorating situation in Gotham, in part because he wants no one else close to him to be hurt or killed. Batman's journey out of this state of mind (which is all but guaranteed to happen by the end of Batman v Superman) can result in him reconnecting with his former allies. Not only that, but I wouldn't understand a Batman that is willing to fight alongside the other members of the Justice League yet isn't willing to have allies in Gotham. As for Oracle, there's no point having her if she is never Batgirl. I'm sorry, but it's pointless imo.

 

[KillerWolf]

But having allies, especially Bat-themed allies, adds to Batman, not detracts. One, it makes it all the more believable that Batman could even have the notion that he could save Gotham City, by training more people to aid in that effort. Two, it plays into the idea of Batman always being prepared. Having multiple allies is his insurance policy if he is ever killed or even when he eventually dies. Why? Because, in this way, he knows that there will always be someone defending and protecting Gotham. How is it that we can be against the Bat Family showing up yet in support of an anti-hero like Catwoman showing up? It makes sense for Batman to have allies who are fighting alongside him and under his tutelage/training. Third, there's absolutely nothing wrong with other Bat-themed heroes. Contrarily, having Bat-themed heroes reinforces the idea that Batman has inspired others. As for how this could fit with a Batman v Superman where Batman is alone in Gotham? Simple. Batman has pushed his allies away in the wake of Jason Todd's death and a deteriorating situation in Gotham, in part because he wants no one else close to him to be hurt or killed. Batman's journey out of this state of mind (which is all but guaranteed to happen by the end of Batman v Superman) can result in him reconnecting with his former allies. Not only that, but I wouldn't understand a Batman that is willing to fight alongside the other members of the Justice League yet isn't willing to have allies in Gotham. As for Oracle, there's no point having her if she is never Batgirl. I'm sorry, but it's pointless imo.

I can understand and get on board with the idea of Batman inspiring others to do the same he does, though if we're to talk about what is believable, half of them, if not more, should be dead already. It should be established that not everyone can do something like this, again, Batman is an extraordinary human being.

And while you make a fine point with it going along with Batman's tendency to have contingency plan, in case he dies, there is a problem of Batman usually being depicted as rather territorial, even in arcs where there's ton of other crime fighters such is "War Games" and writers often go against themselves with that - if he is so territorial why the hell did he let so many other costumed crime fighters run rampage through the Gotham?
Also, him not planning for someone to take his mantle might be explained with two good reasons:

1. He wouldn't want for anyone to have a life such as his, knowing at first hand how hard and dark such a life is.

2. He might feel arrogantly self-confident enough to never consider being defeated while Gotham still needs him, hence needing someone to continue his fight. It's in character of him to be stubborn like this. This is a man that refuses to see that he is fighting against the windmills and how pointless his ongoing crusade actually is in a long-term, after all.

As for other bat-like characters, it is a matter of aesthetic connection, a symbolism if you will - when you see a bat-like bipedal creature in the night in Gotham, that is Batman. Making it, perhaps it's Batman, perhaps some of the many kids he inspired to dress in a similar manner waters it down to me.

And Catwoman serves quite a different purpose than Batman's direct allies. She is a standalone character. She doesn't have a direct connection with him such aforementioned allies do, she is almost always depicted as morally grey with her own agenda and while she might help him out occasionally, she would never take orders from Batman. She is a character in the same vein as any from Batman's rogue gallery, it's just that she falls in the middle of the spectrum and from time to time allies herself with him.

Also, I don't see why would it be pointless having Barbara Gordon that is an ally to Batman and uses her computer knowledge to help him, if she was never Batgirl. Her previously being Batgirl adds nothing in that regard, especially since she was shot by Joker because she was Gordon's daughter and not because she was fighting alongside Batman in a costume - Joker didn't know that it was her when he shot her.

 

[antoineflemming]

I can understand and get on board with the idea of Batman inspiring others to do the same he does, though if we're to talk about what is believable, half of them, if not more, should be dead already. It should be established that not everyone can do something like this, again, Batman is an extraordinary human being.

And while you make a fine point with it going along with Batman's tendency to have contingency plan, in case he dies, there is a problem of Batman usually being depicted as rather territorial, even in arcs where there's ton of other crime fighters such is "War Games" and writers often go against themselves with that - if he is so territorial why the hell did he let so many other costumed crime fighters run rampage through the Gotham?
Also, him not planning for someone to take his mantle might be explained with two good reasons:

1. He wouldn't want for anyone to have a life such as his, knowing at first hand how hard and dark such a life is.

2. He might feel arrogantly self-confident enough to never consider being defeated while Gotham still needs him, hence needing someone to continue his fight. It's in character of him to be stubborn like this. This is a man that refuses to see that he is fighting against the windmills and how pointless his ongoing crusade actually is in a long-term, after all.

As for other bat-like characters, it is a matter of aesthetic connection, a symbolism if you will - when you see a bat-like bipedal creature in the night in Gotham, that is Batman. Making it, perhaps it's Batman, perhaps some of the many kids he inspired to dress in a similar manner waters it down to me.

And Catwoman serves quite a different purpose than Batman's direct allies. She is a standalone character. She doesn't have a direct connection with him such aforementioned allies do, she is almost always depicted as morally grey with her own agenda and while she might help him out occasionally, she would never take orders from Batman. She is a character in the same vein as any from Batman's rogue gallery, it's just that she falls in the middle of the spectrum and from time to time allies herself with him.

Also, I don't see why would it be pointless having Barbara Gordon that is an ally to Batman and uses her computer knowledge to help him, if she was never Batgirl. Her previously being Batgirl adds nothing in that regard, especially since she was shot by Joker because she was Gordon's daughter and not because she was fighting alongside Batman in a costume - Joker didn't know that it was her when he shot her.

Your first point just isn't Batman, not without some powerful motivation or event driving him to think that way. He isn't a character who doesn't want that life for his allies, at least not starting out, so he shouldn't always be like that here. I'm saying he should eventually get to that point - as a result of Jason Todd's death - but he shouldn't start out like that. If they aren't going to have Barbara Gordon be Batgirl, at least pre-paralysis, then I'd rather it be some random computer techy or that they just let Batman do all that himself. But I just really don't want to see another lone Batman fighting the Joker. Some people say that Batman is a cinematic crutch for WB ("they only know how to do Batman and Superman"). Well, Joker is a crutch for Batman. It's possible to tell Batman stories without Joker. It's also possible to tell stories in which Batman isn't a lone vigilante.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

It's quite unlikely that we'll get it, but now I really want a movie based of this story. I like the idea very much.

I'd even take an animated adaptation of it. I really liked the story.

 

[KillerWolf]

Your first point just isn't Batman, not without some powerful motivation or event driving him to think that way. He isn't a character who doesn't want that life for his allies, at least not starting out, so he shouldn't always be like that here. I'm saying he should eventually get to that point - as a result of Jason Todd's death - but he shouldn't start out like that. If they aren't going to have Barbara Gordon be Batgirl, at least pre-paralysis, then I'd rather it be some random computer techy or that they just let Batman do all that himself. But I just really don't want to see another lone Batman fighting the Joker. Some people say that Batman is a cinematic crutch for WB ("they only know how to do Batman and Superman"). Well, Joker is a crutch for Batman. It's possible to tell Batman stories without Joker. It's also possible to tell stories in which Batman isn't a lone vigilante.

Well, I never found that there is a definitive Batman, he's been written differently, though usually within some predetermined boundaries of what makes the core of the character, so when someone says "that is not Batman" I usually don't take that very seriously. But I do get what you're trying to say and can agree to an extent. He most probably wouldn't view it that way from the beginning. He might as he suffer loses and gets hardened through the years, but not as he starts out.

About Barbara Gordon, I find her donning the Batgirl costume least interesting about the character, I like her for plethora of different reasons, but to each their own, of course.

I couldn't agree more about the Joker though. I am genuinely getting sick of the character.

 

[KillerWolf]

I'd even take an animated adaptation of it. I really liked the story.

That is not a bad idea at all. Now when I think about it, it is strange that they never made one.

 

[antoineflemming]

Well, I never found that there is a definitive Batman, he's been written differently, though usually within some predetermined boundaries of what makes the core of the character, so when someone says "that is not Batman" I usually don't take that very seriously. But I do get what you're trying to say and can agree to an extent. He most probably wouldn't view it that way from the beginning. He might as he suffer loses and gets hardened through the years, but not as he starts out.

About Barbara Gordon, I find her donning the Batgirl costume least interesting about the character, I like her for plethora of different reasons, but to each their own, of course.

I couldn't agree more about the Joker though. I am genuinely getting sick of the character.

It probably would be better for Barbara Gordon to be paralyzed permanently, unlike the New 52, now that I think about it. That way, two events in Batman's life drive him towards his current state of mind.

 

[KillerWolf]

It probably would be better for Barbara Gordon to be paralyzed permanently, unlike the New 52, now that I think about it. That way, two events in Batman's life drive him towards his current state of mind.

Few one-time exceptions being made aside, I don't read New 52, so I'm afraid you'll have to inform me - what is the case with Barbara in New 52?

I do agree with the point about Batman's state of mind.

 

[antoineflemming]

Few one-time exceptions being made aside, I don't read New 52, so I'm afraid you'll have to inform me - what is the case with Barbara in New 52?

I do agree with the point about Batman's state of mind.

I think her injury was only temporary, and she recovers. So, she doesn't remain as Oracle.

 

[MrsKent26]

I've always preferred that batman function as a lone vigilante. I'm not claiming that take is any more valid than the "bat-family," but it is what I prefer, especially for movies. I could imagine him preparing for his eventual death (not his retirement; I like a bat that fights until he dies), but that would come much later and this person wouldn't be his permanent shadow. There's just something striking about a lone crime-fighter, a man that thinks he's more like a force of nature, rather than a mere mortal, and seeks help only when needed.

Of course, I'm open to seeing other characters, but prefer they appear in a more auxiliary fashion.

 

[KillerWolf]

I think her injury was only temporary, and she recovers. So, she doesn't remain as Oracle.

I see. Appreciate the info.

And yeah, I am not fond of that.

 

[KillerWolf]

I've always preferred that batman function as a lone vigilante. I'm not claiming that take is any more valid than the "bat-family," but it is what I prefer, especially for movies. I could imagine him preparing for his eventual death (not his retirement; I like a bat that fights until he dies), but that would come much later and this person wouldn't be his permanent shadow. There's just something striking about a lone crime-fighter, a man that thinks he's more like a force of nature, rather than a mere mortal, and seeks help only when needed.

Of course, I'm open to seeing other characters, but prefer they appear in a more auxiliary fashion.

Once again, I completely agree with you. This was perfectly put.