The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Sequel Info Hunters

[Octoberist]

Isn't it weird that Cotillard as replaced Eva Green as the 'It French Girl'?

 

[Keyser Soze]

You should watch some Tarkovsky movies. Maybe a Cassavettes or two.
I heard Bergman makes a fine film as well. See Liv Ullman in "Cries and Whispers."

Natalie Portman is pretty, can cry and can scowl. But she is always Natalie Portman to me. Even with a shaved head.

Watching her is like drinking Dasani bottled water. She appeals to the hive mind.

Considering I said "working today", how many films have John Cassavettes and Ingmar Bergman made lately?

You don't need to throw film credentials at me as if people who like Natalie Portman as an actress are somehow less refined in their tastes. After all, you're the guy who earlier based your hatred of her primarily on the fact that the Star Wars prequels raped your childhood and ruined your life.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

And none of this has anything to do with when she first appears. Their intertwining arcs can be pulled off in year one, two, five, ten. Doesn't matter. Their shared qualities are inherent within the characters themselves, so time has no value.

Time DOES matter. Their arcs are completely parallel which is what makes their future relationship so rich. Having her in now will not do her character justice.

Also in terms of the mob thing, we have her arc with Batman on the side of it all at the same time as the mob arc for three stories, then tying the primary arc to the love story, we find out Selina Kyle is actually the Roman's daughter.

Having her come in now will serve as a cop out and a cheap deus-ex-machina type character.

With this much foresight, one wonders why you're on a message board. You could be making millions out there.

Because I'm currently in film school, buddy.

In the meantime, I'd be willing to bet your pulling terms out of thin air as there is nothing gimmicky or crazy about a new cat burglar in town.

The thing is, the beauty behind Catwoman isn't that she's just a "new cat burglar in town" with a Cat motif. It's that her and Batman emerge at the same time, paralleling paths, and how she is one of the reasons people want Batman unmasked and brought to justice, and that at the same time Batman wants to see her do good with her skills (while he doesn't give a **** about the other villains at this point (with the exception of Two-Face, who was one of his two primary allies).

You are free to explain why every single villain (sans Harvey) has been given a pass for unexplained origins, and yet Selina is somehow singled out.

First of all I would like to add that you aren't going to find much respect on these boards by acting so self-righteous and pretentious in challenging vets to explain in detail why there opinion is the way it is.

However, because I am open to backing myself up, here goes.

Ras Al-Ghul - We get just as much backstory as in the film as we got in the books. In one book, we're introduced to him and how he's lived through countless civilizations orchestrating their downfalls (in the film he talks about the league). In that same issue we know he's very well trained and knowledgeable and a great challenge to Batman. One arc establishes all of this about Batman - In one film, we learn about the league, his wife, his skills and how he is an incredible threat to Batman - also, Ducard, a character shown in a part of one ISSUE initially is elaborated and amalgamated with Ras in about a half hour of the film - one Issue translated to a half hour on film for Nolan - one story arc became one movie.

Zsaz - Initially shown in one issue, not much backstory. All we know about him is that he usses a knife and tallies his kills on his body. In Batman Begins, he is shown as just that with about 10-20 minutes of screentime in Nolan's film. His character is explained and explored to the same extent as in his initial appearance - and he even has a run in with Batman.

Scarecrow - Crane becomes Scarecrow in the same short arc that he is introduced as a Dr. in Arkham - this arc is a relatively short one, but consists of a couple of issues. On film we get the "backstory". He is a psychiatrist to the criminally insane and is affiliated to Arkham. We also know he uses a fear toxin and is the Scarecrow - we also know his fear is of bats. Based on how quickly Batman defeats him, we know he isn't a very big threat. In the movie, all of these character points are shown in about forty minutes - a short story arc becomes about a third of the film.

The Mob - The mob is a complicated antagonist as it is established throughout an entire first arc, continues into the second where Batman, Gordon and Dent take it on, and finally dies out after desperately clinging on in a third arc. The characters are all referenced throughout the three arcs and have connections to almost all the minor plot points throughout these same three arcs. Now look at the films - the first two arcs become the first two of Nolan's films - I'm willing to bet the third film will show the fall of the mob which will be desperately clinging on for dear life.

Gotham - Yes, Gotham is a character. In the first 2-3/4 parts of Year One, we are constantly learning about the character behind Gotham and all the unique points throughout the city - this is then brought to the first film where again the first 2-3/4 parts of the first film are focused on Gotham's character so that by the last act of the film we are comfortable with the look and feel of Gotham.

The Joker - In Year One, the LAST page tells us Batman is going to meet with Gordon on the roof to discuss a crazy lunatic in clown motif. In Batman Begins, we see it. We know that between Year One and TLH, Joker goes ape **** and Batman takes him on - The Man Who Laughs is a short story arc. In the Long Halloween we briefly see Joker - for one issue of it (and for another quick bit after Dent becomes Two-Face). Collectively, Joker's character development would add up to about an arc the length of Year One - possibly even shorter. Again, this length translates to one film - establishing Joker's operation between Batman Begins and TDK, and also showing him as a threat to the main political figures (a la Man Who Laughs). Then Joker is brought to justice... then he gets out and starts terrorizing people again, in the hospitals - like he does in TLH only in TLH, he does it to a large crowd enjoying the holidays. After Dent becomes Two-Face, we see Joker one more time - at the end. Batman quickly defeats Joker, then goes after Two-Face - again just like in TLH. Joker is then in Arkham. He also returns in Dark Victory but his role was a secondary one - Joker was initially meant to return as a secondary character in Nolan's films - which is why Two-Face was killed off (according to Aaron Eckhart), but after Ledger's death, Nolan said he wasn't going to recast the Joker. Understandable.

Two-Face - Although he is introduced in Year One, we only see him in a couple panels and he is only mentioned once or twice. His role was so small, I completely forgot he was even in Year One after reading Man Who Laughs and the Long Halloween. In the Long Halloween, we find out who Dent really is - we learn about his love interest and how passionate he is about taking on the mob. He forms an alliance with Gordon and Batman, he has a special coin as Dent first (in TLH he takes it from a mobster on trial) and about 1/2 through TLH, he is scarred and 3/4 through the book he becomes the main villain. In the end, they cover up that he is Dent and make it seem like he is dead - it isn't until the beginning of Dark Victory that you find out he is in a secret cell in Arkham that only Batman, Gordon and the new D.A. have access to. All of this is like The Dark Knight - the main difference here is that Nolan said he killed of Dent for REAL and he did this because the original plan was to have Joker come back. Again, one of the three installments to this three part arc becomes ONE film.


This film is going to be out ending Nolan's trilogy. In this one film they need to re-introduce the Batcave and the mansion, show Arkham at some point, show the grave to Bruce's parents, make some sort of reference to the first film with the new villain, end the Mob arc and take Batman from being a villain (now he is hated by the majority of the public for his alleged acts of murder) to being the hero of Gotham. All this needs to occur to bring things FULL CIRCLE which Nolan said he wants to do... not even to mention how there is a new love interest and another male villain being played by Tom Hardy. Have fun fitting character who was developed over three parts into that ONE film.

Out of all the other characters shown throughout the three part arc, only four were developed throughout all three, and only three have been shown in the film and these same three have been in the first two and will more than likely be in the third one: Batman, Gordon and the Mob.

I don't think you realize how developed her character was... Catwoman had full chapters revolving around her alone - in her POV without Batman in them. Hell, there was a complete side series to Dark Victory all about how Selina was actually the daughter of the Roman.

I suggest you go first.

Great rebuttal.

The fact that you named Vicki as Batman's primary love interest (hint: it doesn't exist) tells me you're quite behind on your reading material.

Uh... what? Batman #49 (might have even been referenced in 48, I don't quite remember) - late 1940's. She was most recently shown this year.

If by "it doesn't exist" you mean Batman having a love interest you are completely wrong. The only time Batman hasn't really had a love interest in New Earth (which is what this Trilogy is based off of) was in Year One. For 2/3 of the parts he has a love interest. Go beyond that and even Dick Grayson says Bruce needs to have a love interest. He says it in Hush and Tim Drake even says it during the R.I.P. arc. Batman has had five main side characters that make him more human:

Gordon - A confident within a corrupt system which he can trust
Dent - A friend who he loses and must face and feels guilt for
Robin - A pupil to mentor, teach and nurture for
Love Interest - Many women he has loved. (Most famously Selina Kyle but after her would be Vicki Vale - even my roomate who knows nothing about the comics told me he thought Catwoman was just a villain he had a fling with and that Vale was like his Lois Lane or Mary Jane)

Nolan's films have shown the Gordon bit, the Dent bit and the love interest bit (although with Rachel and not Vale or Catwoman). This Batman has shown that if he doesn't like what you stand for, he will stop you - or in Dent's case, kill you, or in Ras Al-Ghul's case let you die. Both of these men were his close friends which later opposed him. Having a relationship with Selina Kyle would not make sense for this Batman based on the character Nolan has established for him - especially considering there is another love interest who ISN'T a villain (based on the rumours) and also taking into account even ending the Mob arc and Batman and Bruce Wayne's character arcs (setting aside my predictions on the cave, mansion and asylum).

There are very few villains that could work at this point:

Female Villain:
Taliah is one as she would relate back to Ras (only main plot point to her is that she's Ras's loyal daughter and assumes command of the League in his absence)

Male Villain:
Black Mask (his arc also parallels Bruce's and relates back to the whole "Man Who Falls" theme established in the issue "Man Who Falls" but also in Batman Begins - for Black Mask time does not matter as he was established at a later point, and Black Mask has very little behind his character in comparison to the 3-book arc of Catwoman (for Black Mask it was literally TWO issues - one for his origin, one for his clash with Batman). Maybe -if they chose Black Mask- even amalgamate parts of Hush's character with Black Mask to make it rich enough to support one film, minus the twenty other characters which made HUSH a story arc of it's own - take the Hush character points from HUSH and the Black Mask character points from his two-part debut and you've got reading material the size of "The Man Who Laughs" enough for a villain in this jam-packed finale.





I'm not a Catwoman hater - if anything it's because I like her character that I don't want her as the villain in this new film.





Now, please go read the comic books in order to avoid further embarrassment.

 

[Brother Jack]

To be fair, she wasn't good in the prequels, but most of the actors in them weren't, even the good ones. Portman is a bit uneven (which mostly depends on the material), but she can, and has been, very good. Her work in Black Swan looks like it's her best performance to date. I'd call her better than Knightley, who I think is decent.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

Oh come on. You know your life would be a little better if the Star Wars prequels were good.
Anyway, I'm sorry my observations are so barbed.
I kinda write more to pump up the people who share my opinion than isolate those who don't. And you're right, I was being pretentious dropping Bergam etc...

The only thing I really know for sure at this point is that I trust Nolan completely. He could cast Clay Aiken as Poison Ivy and I would do a cartwheel.



Also, Knightly as Talia? You could do worse.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Oh come on. You know your life would be a little better if the Star Wars prequels never happened.

Fixed.

 

[Wedge A.]

You should watch some Tarkovsky movies. Maybe a Cassavettes or two.
I heard Bergman makes a fine film as well. See Liv Ullman in "Cries and Whispers."

I've seen and own many films by Bergman and Tarkovsky. What does that have to do with Natalie Portman's ability as an actress? I still think she's great. What are you going to recommend to me? Is acting not a completely subjective field in terms of criticism?

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Also, Knightly as Talia? You could do worse.

You're only saying that because of Pirates 2 & 3. Knightley is actually a very talented actress and she has a very versatile look. She was nominated for Best Actress (Pride & Prejudice, but don't quote me, I might be mistaken). I've always been a fan of hers and would love to see what she could bring to the role.

 

[MiniBond]

Isn't it weird that Cotillard as replaced Eva Green as the 'It French Girl'?

because Green is only playing in indie movies since the golden compass.... I still prefer her over marion though !

 

[Keyser Soze]

I've seen and own many films by Bergman and Tarkovsky. What does that have to do with Natalie Portman's ability as an actress? I still think she's great. What are you going to recommend to me? Is acting not a completely subjective field in terms of criticism?

To be fair, breyfogle rules already apologised for his tone in that post - I don't think we need to keep on ragging on at him about it.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

It's still a funny ass demotivated pic Keyser t:

 

[Keyser Soze]

You're only saying that because of Pirates 2 & 3. Knightley is actually a very talented actress and she has a very versatile look. She was nominated for Best Actress (Pride & Prejudice, but don't quote me, I might be mistaken). I've always been a fan of hers and would love to see what she could bring to the role.

I think it was Atonement she was nominated for.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I think it was Atonement she was nominated for.

Yep! That's the one. Thanks Keyser

 

[Bat-Mite]

The only thing I really know for sure at this point is that I trust Nolan completely. He could cast Clay Aiken as Poison Ivy and I would do a cartwheel.

I would like to see that. I think Aiken would be less of a drag queen than Thurman's Ivy was. Yeah, I said it.

 

[Wedge A.]

To be fair, breyfogle rules already apologised for his tone in that post - I don't think we need to keep on ragging on at him about it.

Yeah, I was already in the post before the barrage of responses. Apologies breyfogle. Uh... Boston represent.

 

[ronny]

I may not be Knightley's biggest fan. But her problem has often seemed to be that she gets cast in very action-orienated roles in which she is supposed to be confident and extroverted. In actual fact, her strongest performances seem to come when she plays the exact opposite of that kind of role.

And after V For Vendetta, I am very optimistic about the prospect of Natalie Portman being in this film.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I may not be Knightley's biggest fan. But her problem has often seemed to be that she gets cast in very action-orienated roles in which she is supposed to be confident and extroverted. In actual fact, her strongest performances seem to come when she plays the exact opposite of that kind of role.

And after V For Vendetta, I am very optimistic about the prospect of Natalie Portman being in this film.

Really? I actually thought she was kinda 'meh' in that film. But to each his own.

 

[Bat-Mite]

The only problem I had with Portman in that movie was her accent. I thought her actual performance was great, though.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

That's why I couldn't buy into it. Some American actresses can really do a very believable british accent (Piper Perabo, Angelina Jolie, for example) others just sound too forced. It takes away from the overall performance.

 

[thewhyteman]

The only problem I had with Portman in that movie was her accent. I thought her actual performance was great, though.

HAHAHAH yer Avatar is awesome!

 

[hegele]

Portman can be good with the right material... Though the right material comes few and far between. She is obviously smart, funny, incredibly attractive... but a good actress she is not. She often falls flat.

I've been harsh on Knightly before. I thought she was a wooden horror of an actress in many films, though she did pull in a great performance in The Dutches. Though in every ensemble she is in, she is swept under the rug, so i think she'd be a bad fit for Batman.

Watts and Weisz are both tremendous actors. They always hold up against the best, and the more often than not shine out in every role they are in.

 

[ilovelamp18]

I think the only thing I've seen Weisz in was the Mummy and the Mummy Returns. The acting in all of that was goofy over the top so I'm hoping someone will direct me towards something a little more serious that will allow me to judge her capabilities on a more fair level.

 

[hegele]

^^ Check out The Constant Gardener, Brothers Bloom (for comedic timing), The Fountain, My Blueberry Nights and About a Boy (to fall in love with her).

her new film, The Whistleblower, is also getting acclaim.

 

[Octoberist]

I think the only thing I've seen Weisz in was the Mummy and the Mummy Returns. The acting in all of that was goofy over the top so I'm hoping someone will direct me towards something a little more serious that will allow me to judge her capabilities on a more fair level.

You need to see The Fountain, The Constant Gardener, and even The Brothers Bloom to see her real talent.

Image if someone questioned Tom Hardy and only has seen Star Trek Nemesis. The Mummy movies were just a starting point for her - you gotta start some where..

 

[Alex Logan]

I can't remember where I saw the rumor I mentioned, but the gist of it is

Spoiler

that, if Catwoman's in the film, she'll serve as a sort of replacement for Batman in terms of his role as Gotham's 'protector'.

Interesting idea, but it's aleady made the rounds here once.