The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[pavlov]

Yeah if you can't see that Fox doesn't care about this franchise and only want money and a rights grab, then you don't want to see it. It's been posted numerous times.

Source?

 

[Jason Kane]

I've learned to never doubt marvel. Until they prove otherwise a Squirrel Girl movie has a chance to make 700 mil.

Now that would really surprise me. Especially since having just learned of the character last year and having it sink in.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

yes, but Marvel is very smart. They recognize a small weakness potentially in Black Panther. they have put him in Cap 3, and Civil War will probably partially see it's aftermath played out in the Black Panther movie, I think a year later.

they recognize even greater weaknesses in Captain Marvel and Inhumans.

But looking at the schedule, neither of those movies is gonna play out in a vacuum. basically gonna be Infinity 1.333 and Infinty 1.666.

I think Thanos is gonna be coming to Earth in Infinity 1. And the movie will end with him sacking Wakanda and claiming the last Infinity gem. and Earth's heroes will be devastated.

And overall, Thanos is gonna have a lot of Hitler/Sauron parallels. As far as how he's seen cosmically. Captain Marvel and Inhumans will take place, i believe partly on the same timeframe as Infinity 1. but both will actually spill directly from Infinity 1 to audiences. like in Infinity 1 Thanos goes around gathering gems and probably we'll see Guardians try to stop him and be beat, and introduce other cosmic figures like Adam Warlock and Pip, and Death, and Mar-vell.

Thanos storms onward, and heads to Earth to claim the last Infinity Gem.
end movie,

Captain Marvel will show the birth of Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel as Mar-Vell, desperately heads to Earth to warn the heroes there. So she'll have an origin born directly out of Infinity 1. and she will be intregal in going back out there, rallying up the remainder of forces left to fight him and heading for Earth. GOTG, Adam Warlock, Pip included.
end movie.

Inhumans will deal with the Twins starting out on a journey of discovery as to their true nature. during the middle of this, it will be shown that Thanos begins his invasion. but they will get to Wundagore, and be led to Attilan from there. and we will introduced to the Inhumans at this point. they will drive us there.

But the thrust of the movie will be the conflict of whether or not the Inhumans should go to Earth and help against this Thanos/Hitler/Sauron figure or remain neutral and hope for the best.

Maximus will be the real spear head of this conflict, rallying dissent against Black Bolt and saying that he's betryaing the Royal Family. Black Bolt will be unsure. The Twins will end up playing a part in his decision to cast the Inhuman's lot with Earth and they will commit to fighting Thanos.

maybe at this point, Captain Marvel and her coalition will show up to say, hey yeah, let's go. but then... movie ends.

Infinity 2...picks up exactly from where that left off.
Thanos sacks Wakanda, gets the last Infinity gem as this second cosmic wave of reinforcements arrive. second half of the movie is spent playing out the whole space/Death/gauntlet/battle arena of Infinity Gauntlet type thing.

and whatever somehow, he's robbed of possession.

so if they do it like that... just imagine how smart that is.
u are directly making two pretty weak properties way stronger by this kind of bookended introduction.

becuz GOTG was never a weak property it's C or D list in general audience recognition but that run they based the movie on is pure A+ list material and team character. Captain Marvel and Inhumans are definitely not that. and Marvel recognizes and they are actually moving realistically to try to make it impossible not to wanna see them anyways.

it's really smart stuff.

cuz GOTG is never gonna happen again. that was the only property that was that great, and also considered that small. u could make other things work, but GOTG was like the gold mine on that. nothing else even comes close to being that situation.

I like the way you think and I think you're right. Great points - all of them.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I've learned to never doubt marvel. Until they prove otherwise a Squirrel Girl movie has a chance to make 700 mil.

As much as I loved Rocket, I hope I never live to see the day we get a live action Squirrel Girl movie. Animation for kiddies is fine. Even Howard the Duck is pushing it for me.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

People do love animals though. I think characters like Cosmo and Lockjaw - if brought to life properly - will be big hits.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

There actually isn't any clear evidence that Fox wanted to sell the rights back to Marvel. Nor is there evidence that Marvel wanted to buy back the rights. Clearly, any negotiations that commenced fell through, that much we can assume. And here we are. I know fans like to jump to conclusions, but everybody loses in the current scenario. Both sides couldn't get the numbers to work.

That's my feeling as well. And at this point Fox may very well be trying to make a good movie here but doing so by trusting implicitly in whatever Trank wants to do for these characters and doing it as cheaply as they possibly can to minimize risk. The methods by which they are going about it all though are totally weird to me.

I think the most positive thing that's happened for this film is that it got moved to August. Unless Ant-Man is a smash hit they have a very good chance of the film debuting in the number one spot that weekend just because of weak competition. There was no way that was going to happen in its June release spot. It would've been 3rd at best.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

People do love animals though. I think characters like Cosmo and Lockjaw - if brought to life properly - will be big hits.

Lockjaw could be really cool . . . but we need a scene with him and Ben together.

 

[starscream22]

There actually isn't any clear evidence that Fox wanted to sell the rights back to Marvel. Nor is there evidence that Marvel wanted to buy back the rights. Clearly, any negotiations that commenced fell through, that much we can assume. And here we are. I know fans like to jump to conclusions, but everybody loses in the current scenario. Both sides couldn't get the numbers to work.

Marvel films are averaging at least $700M a film right now. Even the non-MCU ones, so logic would dictate that any studios with a license to make a Marvel movie would want to capitalize off of that same success.

Thing is that in order to be a contender with the current $700M club there's clearly a process that all the film have followed in order to achieve it. For starters a likable cast, a somewhat sociable director, a decent script that follows source material to some degree, respectful budget, building interest and extensive marketing.

For a studio rebooting a franchise with as bad a history as this one, implementing at least some of these things above should be a given. Yet we haven't seen Fox utilize one. And in this new age of CBMs being shy with footage and info is NOT an option, especially in this franchises case.

That's more than enough evidence to make a legit presumption that FOX doesn't truly value this franchise the way other Studios do theirs. X-men included.

It's not jumping to conclusions to assume NY doesn't want Carmelo Anthony if they're treating him like a D-league player (hypothetically speaking). Sure he's not Lebron but he's not Kwame Brown either. So a franchise using him as trade bait would be a logical probability if they're not trying to at least build a team worthy of a playoff run around him.

In this case however, Disney clearly isn't buying whatever Fox is selling. So this is what we're stuck entertaining.

 

[Kelly]

I'm kind of interested to see if Marvel allows Fox to use the usual Marvel run at the beginning OR, if Fox comes up with an excuse to not use it so it looks like their idea.

 

[Kelly]

That's my feeling as well. And at this point Fox may very well be trying to make a good movie here but doing so by trusting implicitly in whatever Trank wants to do for these characters and doing it as cheaply as they possibly can to minimize risk. The methods by which they are going about it all though are totally weird to me.

I think the most positive thing that's happened for this film is that it got moved to August. Unless Ant-Man is a smash hit they have a very good chance of the film debuting in the number one spot that weekend just because of weak competition. There was no way that was going to happen in its June release spot. It would've been 3rd at best.

I think that will depend on how they promote it. I can't see how they are going to promote this thing as a Marvel Superhero Movie....it will be crucified on the internet if they do that....

I always thought the promotion of "Hancock" was always weird, it was like they weren't sure what they were supposed to be promoting, I see this happening here as well.

 

[Docker2.0]

Source?

Google is a friend of mine.

 

[C. Lee]

Google is a friend of mine.

Not to mention going back and reading parts 1 - 6 of this thread.

 

[Dr Tactics]

Where exactly does the idea that FOX is somehow desperate to sell the FF rights to MARVEL come from?

I actually don't think it even got that far as negotiating a sale. Fox saw a opportunity for Disney to come to them with a offer being that Fox felt they showed their interest in making a deal to extend the DD rights deadline for Galactus and SS. The problem is while Disney was making deals with Lionsgate, Universal, and the other companies that had key Avengers members in their grasp to repurchase or license them to use and Fox was like "Were ready to deal here too for the FF" What they didn't know was the refused deal by Fox for use of Galactus and SS for the DD extension was the last they were going to hear from Disney. So, then they basically said "Well, if you won't deal and you already showed you wanted the FF (or characters associated) then we'll go ahead and make the FF reboot and hold the rights for another 7 years" in thinking that will bring them to at least come to the table.. But then GOTG happened. So now Fox played themselves in the game of chicken and they lost and now they have to release the film. But, if tomorrow Ike was to say "OK, Fox lets negotiate the FF rights" This Film would be kicked to the curb. But, thats not gonna happen..

Fox seems to not want anything to do with this reboot because they already know they're gonna lose money losing the game they played and are trying to lose less money as possible. What film company wants the press of being associated with a flop? and Fox have stockholders as well to answer to.

So while I agree that Fox isn't desperate to actively sell the property as they more desperate to not lose money.

AND THEY ARE GONNA LOSE MONEY and everybody's gonna know it next year. But, at least they get to keep the film rights that nobody (The GA) cares about (except for the fans that are gonna be in the seats for every Marvel movies announced anyway till 2019) so GAME, SET, MATCH favor of Marvel/Disney!!

 

[Mr.M]

That's my feeling as well. And at this point Fox may very well be trying to make a good movie here but doing so by trusting implicitly in whatever Trank wants to do for these characters and doing it as cheaply as they possibly can to minimize risk. The methods by which they are going about it all though are totally weird to me.

I think the most positive thing that's happened for this film is that it got moved to August. Unless Ant-Man is a smash hit they have a very good chance of the film debuting in the number one spot that weekend just because of weak competition. There was no way that was going to happen in its June release spot. It would've been 3rd at best.

I think the fans just have to bite the dust on this one. Whatever we end up getting, Marvel is going to get this back by 2020 or shortly thereafter and then they will start launching some more cosmic properties featuring players in the greater FF universe. There is no way Fox is going to invest in additional spinoffs let alone sequels if this bombs. Eventually we will be introduced to a veteran FF team in the MCU, and they can briefly cover the origin through flashbacks or opening credits ala TIH.

 

[Orba]

I'm kind of interested to see if Marvel allows Fox to use the usual Marvel run at the beginning OR, if Fox comes up with an excuse to not use it so it looks like their idea.

It would definitely be interesting to see if that would happen, a Marvel logo at the start is one of the few things that might draw the GA to this film. I can't see Fox going with big advertising campaigns for this film, I don't think they will be willing to spend more than they have to on.

I think that will depend on how they promote it. I can't see how they are going to promote this thing as a Marvel Superhero Movie....it will be crucified on the internet if they do that....

I always thought the promotion of "Hancock" was always weird, it was like they weren't sure what they were supposed to be promoting, I see this happening here as well.

I've always found Hancock to be a strange film full stop and I'm not surprised that they didn't really know what kind of film they were trying to promote. The tone of the film keeps changing, you go from silly, crude comedy at the start and by the time you reach the end you have grim, rain slicked and bloody fights.

 

[pavlov]

Google is a friend of mine.

by source I meant the type based on hard facts, not assumptions or opinions.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

I think the fans just have to bite the dust on this one. Whatever we end up getting, Marvel is going to get this back by 2020 or shortly thereafter and then they will start launching some more cosmic properties featuring players in the greater FF universe. There is no way Fox is going to invest in additional spinoffs let alone sequels if this bombs. Eventually we will be introduced to a veteran FF team in the MCU, and they can briefly cover the origin through flashbacks or opening credits ala TIH.

The only problem I see with this is how the FF would be marginalized in the MCU - unless the Avengers are completely disbanded at the end of the second Infinity segment.

Inhumans and Black Panther already introduced. Thanos replaces Galactus as the big cosmic harbinger of death.

Do they try to re-establish Dr. Doom? I can't imagine they would lead off with that after FOX fails to deliver a true threatening Doom.

For the Fantastic Four to work, they have to come in with true meaning. They don't really work playing the second fiddle to all the other introductions. In the comics, they were first of a new age, with others to follow - so they were special, unique, hence 'Fantastic'.

How do you make them stand out in the crowd? Especially after they introduce the Inhuman Royal Family.

 

[starscream22]

Fox seems to not want anything to do with this reboot because they already know they're gonna lose money losing the game they played and are trying to lose less money as possible. What film company wants the press of being associated with a flop? and Fox have stockholders as well to answer to.

So while I agree that Fox isn't desperate to actively sell the property as they more desperate to not lose money.

AND THEY ARE GONNA LOSE MONEY and everybody's gonna know it next year. But, at least they get to keep the film rights that nobody (The GA) cares about (except for the fans that are gonna be in the seats for every Marvel movies announced anyway till 2019) so GAME, SET, MATCH favor of Marvel/Disney!!

When Daredevil's deadline arrived and was free to revert back to Marvel that clearly ruffled some feathers at FOX. If I recall correctly it was the same day that Mark Miller started off his Fox-Marvel prattle, from begging to be part of Marvel's MCU to X-men/F4 crossovers. Which at this point has blown up in their faces.

Fox also couldn't have been too happy with Disney's acquisition of Starwars either. So it's only logical that they're weren't going to let anything else revert anywhere so easily.

My thing is that it's not what you do but how you do it! So holding off F4 in this manor looks to be even more detrimental to their bottom line than if they were to have simply just let it revert freely. Unless tax right off for a box office loss or barely breaking even was their contingency plan since Marvel and Disney's made it clear that they're not giving them a penny for a franchise that they been ripping them off on to begin with.

Fox isn't completely stupid though. They know a good film from a bad one and if this had any potential they'd be all over it. Instead we get the same ol spiel if anything and a release date change with no official reason why.

 

[Dark Raven]

Not to mention going back and reading parts 1 - 6 of this thread.

Can't we have all the reasons this movie is not respectful to the source/ going to fail as a sticky thread so that people don't keep asking for it every time as if it's a new revelation?

 

[Nokio]

I think FOX is in a position where they have no idea what to do with the F4 and how to market it. Which is sad considering all the talent out their in Hollywood that can make a kick @ss F4 film. Fox just needs to step back let a talented creative team go to work. Unfortunately it seems FOX doesn't know or understand what it takes to put together the right people to make a great movie outta of the F4. I'm just not sure why FOX won't do this. It baffles me as to why they would spend north of a 100 million on the two previous F4 movies and then come back with a reboot and hire a mediocre creative that don't get the concept of the F4 and then end up with a so so film.

I say to Disney just bite it and pay FOX for the rites. I can't imagine that Fox would think they could get a lot for those rites.

 

[Hellion]

I'm kind of interested to see if Marvel allows Fox to use the usual Marvel run at the beginning OR, if Fox comes up with an excuse to not use it so it looks like their idea.

I've actually been thinking the same thing?

 

[Xrathe]

Going forward I feel like it's going to be more and more difficult to have a stand-alone comic film that doesn't directly or indirectly tie in with something else.

Marvel has created an entire universe of films, which is about to really explode with phase 3. DC is coming in after watching all of this and about to attempt to do the same with their properties. Sony is hoping to cash in on the money grab by leasing out Spider-Man it would appear.

X-Men can stand on its own simply because of the popularity its had. Unless they somehow tie FF into the X-Men universe (highly unlikely) I don't see FF having two legs to stand on either way.

Fox's only hope at making any money with the property is to just make a deal and send it back to Marvel. Unfortunately whatever mook is running Fox is too delusional to see the writing on the wall.

 

[Dark Raven]

Fox can make X-Men into a connected universe (even if it is supposed to be one in the first place). Not all the general audience know who each X-Man character is. If they made other films focusing on other X-characters instead of just Wolverine, then they could have them team up or fight in another movie, and it would look like an instant crossover. Fox could even have done that before Marvel ever created a connected universe but they were too short sighted at the time.

There's absolutely no point in putting the FF into that same universe. The only reason they would want to do it is to retain the rights, even though they are simply a square peg in a round hole. It's like Fox trying to combine X-Men with one of their other properties like Planet of the Apes.

 

[Orba]

Its funny looking at how Fox have handled it, from saying that they were planning a unified universe to saying that the two franchises were incompatible and now back to doing crossovers.

 

[Docker2.0]

by source I meant the type based on hard facts, not assumptions or opinions.

Can't we have all the reasons this movie is not respectful to the source/ going to fail as a sticky thread so that people don't keep asking for it every time as if it's a new revelation?

Great post!!!