The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[Spiderine]

Sorry......but there are people out here who wants the FF property back with Marvel Studios.

So What? What's wrong with that? I personally would love to see the supporting characters associated with the FF property to interact with the other Marvel characters. They are a big missing piece to the MCU puzzle. They also have so many elements that could be used instead of being all alone in their little corner with a studio that seems to lack the respect for them that they have for Xmen.

I don't have to have Xmen or even Spidey. But I certainly support the FF reverting. Which is really what this thread is about anyways.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If Fox was making amazing Fantastic Four movies the level of say Spider-Man 2 or the Dark Knight Trilogy, I guarantee you there would be a lot fewer people wanting the property to revert than there are now.

There would be some that would want to see the FF cross over with the other Marvel characters regardless, but great movies would stop the bulk of the complaining.

Quality is (nearly) everything. There are many more cries for Spider-Man to revert now after the release of TASM2 than there ever was before for one reason only, the movie was terrible. Likewise, the cries for X-Men to revert have died down following First Class and Days of Future Past from what they were following Last Stand and Origins.

 

[Spiderine]

I would love to entertain the notion of Fox making terrific FF movies. And if they did there would be no need for this discussion. But they haven't thus far and this film has generated nothing but negativity.

Truth is we have entered a new age of comic book films. Where multiple characters and story arcs are crossing and interchanging with one another. Its a fabulous time to be a fan. The MCU, DCCU and Xverse are either accomplishing or attempting that. There's no going back to the way things were late 90's to 2007. The FF and even Spidey are being left out. I don't think they can generate the kind of excitement with solo films being excluded from the present day format. Thats just my opinion.

 

[Dasher10]

I would love to entertain the notion of Fox making terrific FF movies. And if they did there would be no need for this discussion. But they haven't thus far and this film has generated nothing but negativity.

Truth is we have entered a new age of comic book films. Where multiple characters and story arcs are crossing and interchanging with one another. Its a fabulous time to be a fan. The MCU, DCCU and Xverse are either accomplishing or attempting that. There's no going back to the way things were late 90's to 2007. The FF and even Spidey are being left out. I don't think they can generate the kind of excitement with solo films being excluded from the present day format. Thats just my opinion.

FF is part of the X-verse. Spider-Man on the other hand is kind of ruined with either another reboot on the way or a team-up film that nobody asked for.

 

[Spiderine]

FF is part of the X-verse. Spider-Man on the other hand is kind of ruined with either another reboot on the way or a team-up film that nobody asked for.

What do you mean "part of the xverse"? Those two brands are not crossing over in any way whatsoever. There is no interaction between their universes unless something has changed. Xmen can expand to their core characters and spinoff mutant groups. I thought they were restricted from doing this with FF and Xmen?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

There is no relation between FF and the X-men, Mark Millar ran his mouth about a crossover for a time but they put the kibosh on that pretty quickly and nothing has been heard about it since iirc

 

[JAK®]

I have never come across a movie that has been so hated during production as this. Other films have had pretty large campaigns of negativity, usually focusing on a single detail, but nothing like this.

 

[Dark Raven]

Bolivar Trask would've wanted to hunt the FF as well if they were part of the X-verse. They look no different from mutants at all. Just because they might be more open about their abilities (which might not be the case in this version of the FF anyway) doesn't mean anything as far as Trask, Stryker etc would be concerned.

 

[starscream22]

Also, keep in mind what the main complaints about Quicksilver were.

1) His look was terrible.
2) His inclusion was an afterthought, intended just for an action scene rather than any meaningful role in the story.

In both cases, the complaints were ABSOLUTELY VALID. His look in the final film was terrible. And while his action scene was very well done, he was a minor character who didn't serve any real purpose in the story and was just forgotten about once his big scene was done. Quicksilver could have been removed from the film and replaced by just about anybody (ex. Juggernaut) and it wouldn't have made a difference.

When trying to argue that complainers are often wrong, it is not a good idea to use an example where they were right.

Furthermore, Quicksilver was such a minor character that nobody was going to base a positive or negative review of DoFP based on his appearance. He is in no way comparable to main characters like Reed Richards in the first place. If Quicksilver is completely screwed up (and I agree that aside from his look, he wasn't), oh well, people are just going to move on to the next scene because he ultimately doesn't mean much. If Richards gets completely screwed up, it will drag down the entire film.

Thank you!

Best breakdown of that QS mess I've heard to date.

Its also absurd thinking once again this reboot will reach any type of DOFP success with an Elektra effort.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I have never come across a movie that has been so hated during production as this. Other films have had pretty large campaigns of negativity, usually focusing on a single detail, but nothing like this.

You must not have been around for Catwoman, Dragonball Evolution, and McG's Superman movie (although to WB's credit they were smart enough to cancel that one due to the backlash).

 

[Dasher10]

Simon Kinberg said a month ago that a crossover is possible.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Good for Simon Kinberg.

 

[the gael]

I have never come across a movie that has been so hated during production as this. Other films have had pretty large campaigns of negativity, usually focusing on a single detail, but nothing like this.

There was one movie that took FFINO way before : Catwoman ! Both decided that the comic book they came from was stupid, that their fans were dumbs and that they could make something new and better by starting from scratch. Both alienated the fans during the production. Catwoman, like this movie, clamed that they could find another audience, but Catwoman... well... was one of the biggest 2014 flop !

Simon Kinberg said a month ago that a crossover is possible.

Interesting. But you know what is more interesting ? It's what Marvel think of this cross over, for obvious reasons....

 

[Dasher10]

There was one movie that took FFINO way before : Catwoman ! Both decided that the comic book they came from was stupid, that their fans were dumbs and that they could make something new and better by starting from scratch. Both alienated the fans during the production. Catwoman, like this movie, clamed that they could find another audience, but Catwoman... well... was one of the biggest 2014 flop !



Interesting. But you know what is more interesting ? It's what Marvel think of this cross over, for obvious reasons....

That's Marvel's problem. If FF turns out to not suck and Fox wants to do a crossover, then Marvel should just suck it up and deal with it.

That said, if this film really does turn out terrible, Fox should sell the rights back since they won't be able to use them any time soon and they'll have damaged the IP beyond repair.

 

[Dark Raven]

There was one movie that took FFINO way before : Catwoman ! Both decided that the comic book they came from was stupid, that their fans were dumbs and that they could make something new and better by starting from scratch. Both alienated the fans during the production. Catwoman, like this movie, clamed that they could find another audience, but Catwoman... well... was one of the biggest 2014 flop !



Interesting. But you know what is more interesting ? It's what Marvel think of this cross over, for obvious reasons....

Catwoman must definitely have been the biggest 2014 flop because it didn't get any box office returns this year since it came out years ago.

 

[Dasher10]

Catwoman must definitely have been the biggest 2014 flop because it didn't get any box office returns this year since it came out years ago.

To be fair to Fox, I doubt that they'll repeat the same mistakes that Catwoman made. Yes, there are liberties taken but I doubt that Fox will make a film that's as bad as Sony's last few Spider-Man films, nor as bad as the Tim Story FF films, nor will it be as dark as Warner's films.

Fox has their own tone for CBMs where there's less humor than Marvel but more than WB. As long as the FF aren't wearing bulky hazmat suits for the whole film and Hobo Doom is either a badly damaged Victor or pre-CGI, then I'm willing to give it a chance. If it's what it's been rumored to be, then Fox has learned nothing and it'll bomb hard.

 

[Docker2.0]

That's Marvel's problem. If FF turns out to not suck and Fox wants to do a crossover, then Marvel should just suck it up and deal with it.

That said, if this film really does turn out terrible, Fox should sell the rights back since they won't be able to use them any time soon and they'll have damaged the IP beyond repair.

Doubt that Marvel will just "deal with it" because the Mouse is longing for F4 back at MS. A crossover ain't happening and if it does without Marvel or Disney's permission, you best believe they will be in court ASAP.

To be fair to Fox, I doubt that they'll repeat the same mistakes that Catwoman made. Yes, there are liberties taken but I doubt that Fox will make a film that's as bad as Sony's last few Spider-Man films, nor as bad as the Tim Story FF films, nor will it be as dark as Warner's films.

Fox has their own tone for CBMs where there's less humor than Marvel but more than WB. As long as the FF aren't wearing bulky hazmat suits for the whole film and Hobo Doom is either a badly damaged Victor or pre-CGI, then I'm willing to give it a chance. If it's what it's been rumored to be, then Fox has learned nothing and it'll bomb hard.

If you look at Fox's comic book movie history, they have all been decent at best to worse without Singer. Take Singer away from their comic book properties and they have a bad track record. Fox doesn't get it as much as Singer does.

 

[Dasher10]

Doubt that Marvel will just "deal with it" because the Mouse is longing for F4 back at MS. A crossover ain't happening and if it does without Marvel or Disney's permission, you best believe they will be in court ASAP.


If you look at Fox's comic book movie history, they have all been decent at best to worse without Singer. Take Singer away from their comic book properties and they have a bad track record. Fox doesn't get it as much as Singer does.

1. The Wolverine didn't have Singer involved.

2. If Fox is legally able to do a crossover, they will. From the looks of it, it sounds like Marvel allowed Fox to do one for something in return. If Marvel cancels the X-Men comics in response, then that's Marvel choice.

 

[Docker2.0]

1) The Wolverine is decent.

2) What crossover has Marvel allowed Fox to do?

 

[starscream22]

Simon Kinberg said a month ago that a crossover is possible.

Sure if Marvel agrees.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You must not have been around for Catwoman, Dragonball Evolution, and McG's Superman movie (although to WB's credit they were smart enough to cancel that one due to the backlash).

I'm not sure if this concept is stated clearly enough or often enough. People will often post things like: "People had doubts about Heath Ledger" or "People had doubts about Quicksilver" and while both of those statements are true, they can't be related to this film for which EVERYTHING is being questioned.

Your examples are much more analogous to what we're seeing here.

The simple fact is that there has never been a successful comic book film that has looked anything like this at this stage in its development.

So is it logical and rational to think this will be the one exception, or should we learn from history and accept the extremely high likelihood that this will be a stinker?

 

[starscream22]

That's Marvel's problem. If FF turns out to not suck and Fox wants to do a crossover, then Marvel should just suck it up and deal with it.

Marvel has been dealing with this "offer they couldn't refuse" for over 14 years now. But if you expect Disney to just let FOX do whatever they want the way Marvel did before Disney acquired them then you can forget it. Telling Marvel-Disney to be "GOOD SPORTS" in this day and age is asinine considering the arrangement they've had with FOX in the first place. If that was the case then Fox-men would have merchandising back.

Disney pulling merchandising hurt Fox more than people think. They would've tried harder to get Daredevil out before it's deadline if they had merchandising to fall back on should it flop. Fox no longer has the cushion to make crappy films like they previously had which is why they're dragging their feet with these projects.

So if holding back on to merchandising has been effective then why the heck would Disney okay Fox to do crossovers for chump change when the real money is in getting these franchised back?

 

[Docker2.0]

That's what I don't get about Fox. They really cut off their own noses to smite their faces. They should have worked with Marvel regarding Galactus and Silver Surfer. I think not having merchandising as well as comics out supporting the films really does hurt them more than people realize.

 

[Crimz]

Seriously what is with the total lack of anything about this film? Even Fox has no faith in this, I have heard more about X-Men Apocalypse than this. It's ridiculous, not even a logo.

 

[Crimz]

I don't Fox can crossover the two properties, they were both sold to them separately. Then if certain characters make cameos does that renew the movie rights? Or does the crossover movie renew both even if one team is in it more prominently than the other? Fox would probably stuff Wolverine into the Fantastic Four films.