The Official Devil May Cry Thread

[Spider-Aziz]

Didn't play Bayonetta
What I saw of it, some visual stuff look a lot like they're from Devil May Cry 4, including the health meter

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, fans whined when they tried to do something different, looks as tho they'll be whining yet again when they copy old games. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. I'm skeptical about everything I read about this tho. I mean ya don't know if it's coming from a bratty fanboy or someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

Not at all. One of the big problems is they have taken ideas from the original series and did them no justice from a continuity or quality aspect.

Lets take Mundus as an example. Not only did they change him, but then what they changed him was into a terrible character. It is insult on top of injury. We are going to take your favorite characters, change them and make them horrible.

They have pretty much remade the original DMC 1 and 3, and have done a bad job at it.

 

[Jick]

Just got the Platinum trophy for this game. Here is a Platinum I never thought I'd get, but it wasn't so hard after all.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Just got the Platinum trophy for this game. Here is a Platinum I never thought I'd get, but it wasn't so hard after all.

Thats pretty crazy. I was playing today and glanced at the cheevo list and i just dont think ill be getting the full 1000. Not something i really wanna attempt, nor do i think i could do it any way.

For those that have tried it, whats the highest level you have achieved in Bloody Palace?

Also, i LOVE the samurai weapon skins. So awesome.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

They have pretty much remade the original DMC 1 and 3, and have done a bad job at it.

Not in the slightest. They've taken those great characters and just made them more contemporary. This version of Mundus fits in the current world they have created(altho i will admit i didnt think his VA gave nearly as good a performance as Dantes or Virgils VA) The story and characters are just one of the many reasons why this game is so good and rated so highly.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Just got the Platinum trophy for this game. Here is a Platinum I never thought I'd get, but it wasn't so hard after all.

Congratulations
I still can't get past stage 12 on Son of Sparda =p

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not in the slightest. They've taken those great characters and just made them more contemporary. This version of Mundus fits in the current world they have created(altho i will admit i didnt think his VA gave nearly as good a performance as Dantes or Virgils VA) The story and characters are just one of the many reasons why this game is so good and rated so highly.

The story and the characters is one of the many reason the sales have been so low.

Just because something is called contemporary doesn't make it good. You can be contemporary and crap. Though all of that is kind of pointless, because it isn't even contemporary. Goth and punk are not contemporary. And changing the origins of the main character has nothing with making something contemporary. Nor is the cliched "the human good made me see reason", even if she has little to no personality.

 

[Jick]

Congratulations
I still can't get past stage 12 on Son of Sparda =p

Thank you.
Try to look for some YouTube videos for hints.

For those that have tried it, whats the highest level you have achieved in Bloody Palace?

I just completed level 99 and the game it STILL loading level 100. I think it got stucked. Damn! I've been doing this for the last 2 hours and now this happens!

I would certainly have defeated the last two bosses, since they're quite easy. I'm not in the mood to try it all over again.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

The story and the characters is one of the many reason the sales have been so low.

Wrong. The sales have been low because the old cry baby DMC fans didnt latch on to it because it wasnt another run of the mill DMC game, it dared to shake things up, they didnt care for that, which is why they passed. Stop pretending like its anything else. If the story and characters were as poor as you incorrectly believe, the game would have scored much lower across the board. It didnt. The reviews have been consistently high since launch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Wrong. The sales have been low because the old cry baby DMC fans didnt latch on to it because it wasnt another run of the mill DMC game, it dared to shake things up, they didnt care for that, which is why they passed. Stop pretending like its anything else. If the story and characters were as poor as you incorrectly believe, the game would have scored much lower across the board. It didnt. The reviews have been consistently high since launch.

No, it was simply just another run of the mill action game that lost all the uniqueness that made Devil May Cry what it was.

You can't blame people for not buying a game they don't want. It is nothing but a temper tantrum. This game, if you are right, was suppose to sell DmC to a new audience. The new audience doesn't want it either. So the fanboys don't want it, the new audience doesn't want it. So who is suppose to buy it? At some point it is the creators fault.

And falling back on reviews is hilarious, especially when most clearly miss the point and are prime examples of amateur journalism.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

No, it was simply just another run of the mill action game that lost all the uniqueness that made Devil May Cry what it was.

You can't blame people for not buying a game they don't want. It is nothing but a temper tantrum. This game, if you are right, was suppose to sell DmC to a new audience. The new audience doesn't want it either. So the fanboys don't want it, the new audience doesn't want it. So who is suppose to buy it? At some point it is the creators fault.

And falling back on reviews is hilarious, especially when most clearly miss the point and are prime examples of amateur journalism.

No you can't blame the creators, they delivered a well made new spin on an old classic. They succeeded in making a good game. You can blame Capcom for poor marketing/research and the old DMC fans for being stuck up their own asses but NT did exactly what Capcom asked them to. It's also quite easy to use reviews to show that this game is better than someone like you could admit to when the reviews are so consistent. Your argument that the reviewers don't know what they're talking about is a classic cover up for not having any kind of argument worth presenting, had this game of come out to poor reviews you'd be using that as ammo. Alas, it didn't and you have to make up some bulls**t about most reviewers "not getting it". Give me a break.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, using a blanket statement of calling all journos who gave it a positive review "amateurs" just completely discredits your argument.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

No, it was simply just another run of the mill action game that lost all the uniqueness that made Devil May Cry what it was.

Dante and Virgil the twin half-demons and sons of Sparda?
Mundus anger at Sparda and is son?
A wise cracking Dante?
Demon hunting?
Ibony and Ivory? Rebllion?
Upgrades after certain stages?
Switch weapons and styles?
Collecting orbs to buy items?
Every time you purchase an item it becomes more expensive?
Buy stuff at a statue?

Al these staying in the reboot mean nothing?


Please, pretty pretty please, don't say something that is IN the game is not in it, or say the game is what it is not standing against it

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No you can't blame the creators, they delivered a well made new spin on an old classic. They succeeded in making a good game. You can blame Capcom for poor marketing/research and the old DMC fans for being stuck up their own asses but NT did exactly what Capcom asked them to. It's also quite easy to use reviews to show that this game is better than someone like you could admit to when the reviews are so consistent. Your argument that the reviewers don't know what they're talking about is a classic cover up for not having any kind of argument worth presenting, had this game of come out to poor reviews you'd be using that as ammo. Alas, it didn't and you have to make up some bulls**t about most reviewers "not getting it". Give me a break.

Ninja Theory has had three chances to make a good game, that sold. They haven't done it. At that point it is their fault. I have more then exampled the problems with this game, and have gone into better detail then any review you have presented.

Just look at the combat and weapons. Combat based around forcing you to use certain weapons against certain enemies. That isn't variety, it is limiting. The weapons have very similar attacks, that have similar button combinations, that leave choice pretty irrelevant outside making sure you hit with the right color against the right opponent.

Then there is of course the whip which can slow any fight to a crawl making the fights extremely easy. Pick up, simple combo, move to keep in air, simple combo, rinse and repeat.

They have also made the firearms almost pointless as they have real power and are no longer necessary to keep combos going.

Then there is of course the scoring system which doesn't punish for anything. "S" rankings are handed out like candy on Halloween. Go and try and "S" MGR, Bayonetta, DMC or DMC 3. A whole different ball game.

Yeah, using a blanket statement of calling all journos who gave it a positive review "amateurs" just completely discredits your argument.

Give me an example of one review that goes beyond the combat is "fast" (it isn't) and or doesn't start complaining about people complaining about Dante's new hair. Any attempt at professionalism goes out the window the moment one of these review starts complaining about fans complaining.

The best I have found on the positive review front are Maximilian's and the angry guy on youtube.

Dante and Virgil the twin half-demons and sons of Sparda?

You mean the half human, half demon Sons of Sparda? Sparda who was a great warrior, who saved mankind and slap the crap out of Mundus. Those sons and that Sparda?

Sparda had a giant legacy as the most feared man in the demon world in the original series. He was the Legendary Dark Knight. Being a Son of Sparda meant something. Here he he has been turned into Sisyphus. The original Sparda wouldn't have hide, he wouldn't have ran, he would have kicked Mundus' teeth out.

It is like writing the story of Superman and making Kal-El a non-Kryptonian, who father was the slave of some random alien.

Mundus anger at Sparda and is son?

Mundus wasn't angry at the original and Sparda. He feared him and he also understood the danger Dante presented to him. Hence the need to get rid of him.

He also wasn't somehow completely blind and knew there was two sons. One of which he controlled.

Also, has that been exampled? Mundus' forces raided the house. They knew a kid existed, but didn't realize there was two? Furthermore, considering Vergil and Dante look exactly alike, how come people, including Dante, have so much trouble putting two and two together once they are reunited?

A wise cracking Dante?

That is like saying Wally West and Wolverine are similar characters. You can wise crack in so many different ways.

OG Dante was always bright, having fun and in love with the challenge his opponent could present to him.

Ibony and Ivory? Rebllion?

Which other then the name, have how much in common with the original take?

It is like saying there is devil trigger, even though it functions nothing like the original devil trigger.

Upgrades after certain stages?

Every game like this does that.

Switch weapons and styles?

What style switching? Are you comparing holding the triggers to the style selection in DMC3 and even 4? t:

And compare the weapons and variety. Outside of Aquila, there is no depth. DMC, DMC3 and DMC4 had each weapon function in a fundamentally different way. There are no Nevan, Beowulf, Lucifer, Cerberus, Pandora, or Agni & Rudra here.

Compare how Dante, Vergil and Nero all handle a sword. Completely different.

Collecting orbs to buy items?

A staple of the genre, from Onimusha to God of War.

Every time you purchase an item it becomes more expensive?

Are these a joke? Does this mean this game is also very similar to God of War as well? t:

Buy stuff at a statue?

You can do this in a few games.

Al these staying in the reboot mean nothing?


Please, pretty pretty please, don't say something that is IN the game is not in it, or say the game is what it is not standing against it

They do when the characters, world and story have been clearly perverted.

Then there is of course the core game values that are missing, like difficulty, varied combat, and classic and challenging boss fights.

Do we really need to compare the 3 Vergil encounters in DMC 3 to what happens at the end of DmC?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Meh, this is just a tired old argument.

It's one thing to say a game has faults but the level of hyperbole that you express in your criticism of the game just shows a complete disregard for objectivity. Most of your complaints are entirely subjective and based on a premise that many people just don't accept.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Meh, this is just a tired old argument.

It's one thing to say a game has faults but the level of hyperbole that you express in your criticism of the game just shows a complete disregard for objectivity. Most of your complaints are entirely subjective and based on a premise that many people just don't accept.

Whether you like the characters or not is subjective. Whether you like the combat or not is subjective. The nature of the characters, their traits and the actual mechanics of the combat are not subjective.

Which is my point. I am not a fan of the new style or story, though I do like Dante, which shocked me. That is subjective. How related the characters, story, and style is to the original series is not subjective.

The combat is not some intangible idea. It is the exact opposite. It is no different then breaking down a fighting games system, right down to frame advantage. You can like it, but that doesn't make it more varied, quick or challenging.

 

[Master Chief]

I don't get all the fan hate because I'm pretty sure DMC4 didn't sell that great either lol. Your gripes as a hardcore fan of the series are legit but it was still a fun game. And after seeing the end I'm bummed out that it's very unlikely to get a sequel.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Whether you like the characters or not is subjective. Whether you like the combat or not is subjective. The nature of the characters, their traits and the actual mechanics of the combat are not subjective.

Which is my point. I am not a fan of the new style or story, though I do like Dante, which shocked me. That is subjective. How related the characters, story, and style is to the original series is not subjective.

The combat is not some intangible idea. It is the exact opposite. It is no different then breaking down a fighting games system, right down to frame advantage. You can like it, but that doesn't make it more varied, quick or challenging.

But that's the point you seem completely blinded to... That doesn't mean it's BAD. The difference between this series and the original in story, characters etc only seem the bother the most overzealous fans. I didn't care that it had differences because it is MEANT to be different and I believe it still works as it's own thing, enough so that I became invested in this world and it's characters.

It's an alternate take, a different version, a reboot, a remake, a spin off... Whatever you want to call it. There are plenty of things there that are undeniably Devil May Cry but there are enough differences to justify a new version.

You are using it's differences from the original as a negative, but unless you're talking objectively about mechanics that make the game flawed, then your argument is based on subjectivity.

 

[Nathan]

In the end, the reboot of the game was an entirely fruitless endeavor. They tried to garner more fans by leaving the old ones in the dust, and the gamble just didn't pay off. You said "a premise that many people just don't accept.". I think that's the entire problem with the reboot. The first games were always about Dante kicking ass and just having fun doing it. And whenever the situation got to the point where he got serious, it was just a lot more interesting to watch. It's like when Spidey stops with his wisecracks, you know **** just got real. And more interesting than Dante, was his family legacy. He was the freaking Son of Sparda. One of the most powerful Demons in the Underworld. But information on him was so sparse, all you know was that he saved humanity, and other demons feared, hated and respected him. He was so important, that he gets mentioned in every game, and we had people try twice to acquire his powers. You could have probably made a Trilogy of games based on Sparda alone.

But here comes DmC, instead of the fun loving, flamboyant Demon Hunter, we get a punk kid, who seems to just look out for himself and has that whole 'fight the power' attitude. Instead of fending off Demons that try to claw their way into the human world, we have Demons already in full control. And how do they control humanity? Through debt. We get a story focusing on Politics and Consumerism, that I think just don't mix with Devil May Cry. Instead of just kicking in the front door and challenging Mundus, like the original Dante and Vergil would do, we have them running around, disturbing and sabotaging places of importance to Mundus, and take a hostage like a bunch of terrorists. So much for being the Sons of Sparda. And Speaking of Sparda, Dante's family legacy is a joke. I don't think I have to go into detail here. Unlike the original series, you don't really want to know more about his past.

Premise alone can really be a huge factor for the success of a game and whether or not people enjoy it. I know I played a bunch of games where the gameplay was less than stellar and overall wasn't well received, but the story and premise are what kept me playing. Two examples are Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness and Predator: Concrete Jungle. Not really good games, but the premise was interesting and kept me going. Now DmC is a very solid game, but I think the game's Premise is the fault why barely anyone cares.

I don't get all the fan hate because I'm pretty sure DMC4 didn't sell that great either lol. Your gripes as a hardcore fan of the series are legit but it was still a fun game. And after seeing the end I'm bummed out that it's very unlikely to get a sequel.

Every Devil May Cry game sold somewhere between 2-3 Million. Capcom lowered their expected sales of DmC already to 1.2 Million. And their first estimate when they announced the reboot, was 5 Million.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't get all the fan hate because I'm pretty sure DMC4 didn't sell that great either lol. Your gripes as a hardcore fan of the series are legit but it was still a fun game. And after seeing the end I'm bummed out that it's very unlikely to get a sequel.

DmC is going to wish for DMC4 sales at this point.

I do find the game somewhat grafting. I wouldn't worry, I doubt they shelve the series. I am pretty sure we will see a sequel.

But that's the point you seem completely blinded to... That doesn't mean it's BAD. The difference between this series and the original in story, characters etc only seem the bother the most overzealous fans. I didn't care that it had differences because it is MEANT to be different and I believe it still works as it's own thing, enough so that I became invested in this world and it's characters.

That isn't the point. Whether you like the characters, style and gameplay or not is your choice.

What I don't like is the idea that the story, characters, gameplay and style are similar to the original series just because they share names and somewhat common story threads. Telling me because you upgrade at statues or collect orbs it is very similar to Devil May Cry is ridiculous imo.

It would be like saying the Catwoman film is similar to the vast majority of comic book Catwoman over the last 30 years. You can name the character Dante, name his sword Rebellion, but that doesn't mean they come close to representing the same thing.

That doesn't make the character good or bad. It just means they aren't similar.

It's an alternate take, a different version, a reboot, a remake, a spin off... Whatever you want to call it. There are plenty of things there that are undeniably Devil May Cry but there are enough differences to justify a new version.

But it isn't Devil May Cry. From characters to gameplay, it is fundamentally different.

Bayonetta is more Devil May Cry then this game by a large margin. Bayonetta's playful attitude strikes a far more similar cord to the original Dante then this take does.

You are using it's differences from the original as a negative, but unless you're talking objectively about mechanics that make the game flawed, then your argument is based on subjectivity.

Here is one. The whip kills the difficulty of the game. It wouldn't be hard without it, but it makes it much easier. You can slow combat to a crawl and avoid many obstacles by simply using it.

Having played many platformers, the mechanics for the platforming bits are rudimentary, and only serve to add time to the game. There is nothing inventive or challenging about them.

But again, if you are going to keep calling it a Devil May Cry game, then it is fair to bring up the original series.

Especially when people start talking about the speed and variety of combat. It is no where near its own series history, or the genre in general. Ninja Gaiden is 9 years old now, and it is far more advance in terms of combat then this game.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

But again, your critique of the new story is entirely subjective.

I happened to find the DmC Dante a lot more engaging and real. He was having fun and also taking things seriously in his own way. It felt a lot more grounded to me. For some reason, he pulls of things like the slow mo getting dressed stuff in a way that original Dante never did for me. For classic Dante, things like eating pizza while fighting was openly corny but embraced the corniness... I thought DmC deftly managed to maintain a level of stylised coolness without sacrificing the depth of it's characters.

I think DmC's biggest problem is the image and the way it's marketed. I went into the game fully expecting a try hard, wannabe emo skater and I was blown away when I got the opposite. I think it's a bummer that there are so many people out there who won't give it a try.

But I entirely resist the notion that anything actually in the game is at fault for it's reception. It's lack of sales is people simply not playing the game. That's based on their impressions of the game without actually buying and playing it, which is entirely based on it's image, which in my mind is partially the way it was marketted but further more, also the fan outrage around the game. You can't deny that would have put people off which is simply ridiculous.

I don't think fans should ever weild that much power and I'm sick of even now, fans of the original speaking on behalf of all the fans. I LOVED the original series and I love the new one better. Don't tell me Capcom ripped me off because they didn't. They promised me an alternate version and that's what I got. An enjoyable one at that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But again, your critique of the new story is entirely subjective.

Of course it is. But that doesn't mean I don't get to have my opinion or discuss what find to be obvious problems with it. Like how they set up the final stretch like the trio have been on a Harry Potter length epic journey, when really they haven't done much.

I happened to find the DmC Dante a lot more engaging and real. He was having fun and also taking things seriously in his own way. It felt a lot more grounded to me. For some reason, he pulls of things like the slow mo getting dressed stuff in a way that original Dante never did for me. For classic Dante, things like eating pizza while fighting was openly corny but embraced the corniness... I thought DmC deftly managed to maintain a level of stylised coolness without sacrificing the depth of it's characters.

Once you start cursing to curse, I lose the idea that there is any sort of deft touch. When you have Dante continually repeating what Vergil says to him, I think you lose the deft touch tag.

I think DmC's biggest problem is the image and the way it's marketed. I went into the game fully expecting a try hard, wannabe emo skater and I was blown away when I got the opposite. I think it's a bummer that there are so many people out there who won't give it a try.

They marketed it. They made the original trailer. They then realized they had to change how Dante looked again.

And Dante is fine. I like him. He isn't the original Dante and his habits do reflect an annoying 80s subculture. But he is easily the best they did and they completely murdered the honorable, ornery, badass Vergil.

But I entirely resist the notion that anything actually in the game is at fault for it's reception. It's lack of sales is people simply not playing the game. That's based on their impressions of the game without actually buying and playing it, which is entirely based on it's image, which in my mind is partially the way it was marketted but further more, also the fan outrage around the game. You can't deny that would have put people off which is simply ridiculous.

The game starts with a big ole' shot of female genitalia. There is a reason why Capcom went into panic mode over this game.

It is all imagery from the game. It is how the game looks and is. There is plenty of gameplay out there and it shows how much it has fallen. I have seen bad, unfaithful trailers. These weren't.

I don't think fans should ever weild that much power and I'm sick of even now, fans of the original speaking on behalf of all the fans. I LOVED the original series and I love the new one better. Don't tell me Capcom ripped me off because they didn't. They promised me an alternate version and that's what I got. An enjoyable one at that.

So fans shouldn't be able to vote with their wallets?

More importantly, these are fans of Devil May Cry. They aren't fans of DmC. There is a fundamental difference.

And if you are going to insults fans and tell them what they like is wrong and they should enjoy this better, well guess what, maybe you should produce. They bad mouthed the old series. They talked crap about Bayonetta, then rip off stuff from it and not even get close to making a game of its quality. It is the height arrogance and hilarity.

 

[Nathan]

That's based on their impressions of the game without actually buying and playing it, which is entirely based on it's image, which in my mind is partially the way it was marketted

Then that's really the fault of the Marketing Department. Just based on how they marketed the game, I couldn't have been less interested. The one Trailer that actually got me interested, was the Japanese one. But by that point I already knew most of what happened in the game.

but further more, also the fan outrage around the game. You can't deny that would have put people off which is simply ridiculous.

Yeah, I don't believe that at all. Everyone claimed that the outrage was just from a vocal minority. The olds fans were probably not even factored into the reboot's success. They wanted to sell 5 Million copies of DmC at first. Tameem and Capcom made it really clear they didn't care what the fans were thinking. Heck, Tameem flat out said "I don't care." This game was supposed to gain more fans, and sell more copies than any of the previous Devil May Cry games. That means targeting casual gamers, who don't frequent the Internet and follow the fan outrage.

So then the game came out, it barely sold, Capcom keeps lowering their sales estimates and suddenly the fans are not a vocal minority anymore, and are being accused of the game's failure. I'm sorry, what?

I don't think fans should ever weild that much power and I'm sick of even now, fans of the original speaking on behalf of all the fans.

But do they? Do they really? The only power fans have is to speak with their wallet. And the only thing fans wanted, was for Capcom to continue the story and actually answer the questions that kept piling up. Is that unreasonable?

I LOVED the original series and I love the new one better. Don't tell me Capcom ripped me off because they didn't. They promised me an alternate version and that's what I got. An enjoyable one at that.

Well, then I'm happy for you.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is Pat and Wolvie's argument. Fans of the original series should buy the new series whether they want it or not. They should buy it even as the makers of the game gave them the finger both in terms of the game they produced and their own words.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Here is a very sensible look at it and reboots in general.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/24/the-dangers-of-video-game-reboots-readers-feature-3511295/

Coming back to DmC Devil May Cry, I think this is why it met with such a hostile reception. Sure Dante was a bit of an arse, but he was a James Bond-esque character: cool, charismatic and with a painful one-liner always ready. More than that though he had an iconic look. A look that carried through all four games and even the anime. People grew attached to him and were understandably upset when he was changed.

I think the reaction was way over the top by the way, but I do understand it. This is something anyone considering a reboot has to be aware of, certain aspects cannot be altered. Only a reboot could save Batman at the cinema after Batman & Robin, no-one can argue that. Christopher Nolan was sensible in his approach though. He kept all the characters the same (including their appearance) and moved them into a more realistic location to add depth to them.

Also, he didn’t add elements that all the other directors making superhero films at the time did. He simply set out to make the best film that he could. Personally I though Devil May Cry needed some of its fat trimming, given how good rival games in its genre were. But I think Ninja Theory’s approach went too far and why it was eventually branded as an alternate universe, rather than restarting the series.

I always thought it would be a decent, even good, game which is what it’s turned out to be. But I also think the game would have been better had it been launched as a brand new game.