The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 1

[Gamma Ra]

Kevin Feige on The Hulk in The Avengers

GB: Will we see anything substantially different in the visual realization of the Hulk?

KF: Well, I don’t know about substantially different. It will be as different as ”The Incredible Hulk” was from Ang Lee’s “Hulk” in terms of its look and design, but it is Hulk. The image we released on the last day of Comic-Con — which got a tremendous amount of attention and I was very pleased about — is a very good representation of what he’s going to look like. Hulk is Hulk. We’re not going to reinvent the wheel.

I thought the art was really nice, but I want to see it in CGI form.

GB: How big will he be? That’s been a major variable through the years in the comics and the two films as well.

KF: He’ll be about the same size he was in “The Incredible Hulk” [which was about 9 feet tall] or maybe a little bit smaller. His muscles won’t be quite as cut. We figure he’s been the Hulk now for a few years and [his physique is changing]. He’s not as cut or as ripped as he was in “The Incredible Hulk.” The most important thing is that face. As you can already see in that concept painting, it is — more than any Hulk that’s ever been done in live action — a Hulk that let’s you see the actor in there. You will be able to see Ruffalo in there. That was a big revelation for us. It’s just a concept painting, but in that you can see the [influence of Marvel Comics pioneer and original Hulk artist Jack] Kirby, as people have already pointed out, but also, and equally important in this case, Ruffalo’s eyes and his cheek structure. It is him.

I like the size of Hulk in comparison to Betty in the cave scene. If they can match that size and stay consistent I'll be happy.

GB: That sounds like a very different philosophy than the approach you took on Louis Letterrier’s movie.

KF: It is. It was something we actively avoided before. Hulk was Hulk, he’s not any one actor and Hulk should look like Hulk. It was like Iron Man’s armor, in a way, it wouldn’t change depending on the actor wearing it. But we’ve taken a different approach because Hulk is Banner and, frankly, we came to question our approach. Why are we not doing it this way? So we did a few designs that put Ruffalo into it, and we immediately saw how much more you feel for the creature. When you keep that connection going between Banner and the Hulk and you have characters around him trying to reach Banner inside — “Bruce, calm down,” and all of that classic Hulk stuff — it means more if you see the same actor throughout. I think before it was something we thought might look silly. We were nervous about getting it good enough [via visual effects] to work. Frankly, it was the same way we were nervous early on about making Steve Rogers skinny for “Captain America.” Is this going to look disturbing? Is this going to look silly? In the end, we got that one right. We’re going to get this one right.

My problem with Ang's cgi Hulk was that he looked too much like Banner. Even Betty in that movie noticed him right away and this should not be the case with the Hulk. I liked the poster art for the Avengers movie, but I really need to see the cgi Hulk. They sound like they are aiming for the Avatar-like resemblance between the Avatar and person their DNA was grafted with, as for the the Hulk...PLEASE DON'T.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

I agree with all the above.

Hulk (2003) = Best day-time CGI

The Incredible Hulk (2008) = Best night-time CGI

I'm hoping with The Avengers they can master both.

I'm already preferring The Avengers look for Hulk alot more than the previous two. He's supposed to look like a monster.

 

[Doc Samson]

I agree with all the above.

Hulk (2003) = Best day-time CGI

The Incredible Hulk (2008) = Best night-time CGI

I'm hoping with The Avengers they can master both.

I'm already preferring The Avengers look for Hulk alot more than the previous two. He's supposed to look like a monster.

Exactly! And he also should resemble Banner slightly. I've been down this road too many times to travel it again, but some of us like that aspect and some of us don't. Let's hope there's perfect marriage between both ways..

 

[Kirmit]

I kinda agree, however, I think the best stuff in Ang's film easily outclassed the best of TIH.

I don't think there's anything in TIH that looks better, and more realistic than this scene right here:

The range of emotions on Hulk's face as he goes from rage at another perceived threat to shame as he realizes it's Betty who's coming to see what he's done, it was splendid. The water reflection in his hair, the lighting, everything was extremely well done here. The main problem is that it was erratically inconsistent whereas I feel TIH, while not as "real" looking, was more consistent overall. They better get it right this time...

Although this picture is near perfect something just still seems off to me, it could be because of the shade of green used, it could be the hair looks completely fake imo, I'm not sure. Whereas I look at the following pic and it just looks perfect, I could 100% believe the Hulk was actually standing there.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

My problem with Ang's cgi Hulk was that he looked too much like Banner. Even Betty in that movie noticed him right away and this should not be the case with the Hulk.

I understand where your coming from, but...Hulk is Banner, not a monster Banner transforms into.
Hulk is the personification of rage and fear, of Banner´s repressed feelings, so he needs to look like a creature, but at the end of the day, when Hulk is at peace, when he is sleeping, if you look closely, you will see Banner in the midst of that hulking face.

 

[Doc Samson]

Although this picture is near perfect something just still seems off to me, it could be because of the shade of green used, it could be the hair looks completely fake imo, I'm not sure. Whereas I look at the following pic and it just looks perfect, I could 100% believe the Hulk was actually standing there.

These are the two best scenes from their respective films to me, but in the case of TIH, his skin still looked rubbery to me in that shot, which was my main problem with it overall, aside from the integration with his environment and the design itself. Still a fantastic shot though

 

[Kirmit]

These are the two best scenes from their respective films to me, but in the case of TIH, his skin still looked rubbery to me in that shot, which was my main problem with it overall, aside from the integration with his environment and the design itself. Still a fantastic shot though

I understand what you're saying, in TIH he did look too glossy and rubbery alot of the time. Though in the shot I posted I believe that works in the context it was used, with it raining and just after a battle but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree .

 

[The Hulk]

I understand where your coming from, but...Hulk is Banner, not a monster Banner transforms into.
Hulk is the personification of rage and fear, of Banner´s repressed feelings, so he needs to look like a creature, but at the end of the day, when Hulk is at peace, when he is sleeping, if you look closely, you will see Banner in the midst of that hulking face.

This could not be further than the truth it's nit funny. Hulk is a separate entity from Banner, he is a monster. Hulk should never resemble Banner in any way. 2003 hulk looked to much like Eric Banna at times, TIH was spot on, not once did I look at him and think Norton. I can't see Ruffolo at all in the concept art, all I see is a monster, so hopefully that's how close a resemblance it is. If it turns out like avatar like above post mentioned I think I'll have a melt down!

 

[bubbadoom]

Kevin should have just come out and said that they blew it with the designs for the other two Hulks and this time they have taken charge and got it right.
I am sure Marvel had little input in the design for Ang Lee's Hulk [there was no Marvel Studios at that time], and I know the director continued to screw with the designs for TIH after they were delivered to the FX house [I think they gave him too much of a voice in both the Hulk's and the Abomination's designs], so I think this time Marvel is having the last word on the matter - and we will be better off for it. Finally, the Hulk looks like a hulk, and not some oiled up body builder.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Hulk is a separate entity from Banner

WTF?
Do you know who Hulk is by any chance?

 

[TikkiEXX]

well i think he looks like Ruffalo. either that or Ruffalo looks like the Hulk. lol. and i think it may be a bit more of the second one, always thought Mark had some slightly Hulkish facial features.

 

[The Hulk]

WTF?
Do you know who Hulk is by any chance?

Are you kidding?? Ive been a hulk fan for 32 years my friend. The only time the hulk should resemble the hulk is the professor incarnation. The hulk is not banner, he IS the monster Banner becomes.

 

[Doc Samson]

I promised myself I wouldn't get into this anymore, but....

This could not be further than the truth it's nit funny. Hulk is a separate entity from Banner, he is a monster. Hulk should never resemble Banner in any way. 2003 hulk looked to much like Eric Banna at times, TIH was spot on, not once did I look at him and think Norton. I can't see Ruffolo at all in the concept art, all I see is a monster, so hopefully that's how close a resemblance it is. If it turns out like avatar like above post mentioned I think I'll have a melt down!

The Hulk is a transformation, a mutation. He isn't a separate entity physically, it's Bruce Banner transformed. They share the same skull, skeleton, etc. It's up to the artists' discretion to choose to depict the comic Hulk however they see fit, and yes, a lot of them choose to illustrate the Hulk 1000 feet tall, with 1000 pounds of muscle and 0 body fat. That's just one way though, and depending on who you are, maybe you didn't grow up on that Hulk.

In live action, I feel the resemblance helps with the illusion of him actually being real and emoting. Part of the reason I think Ang's Hulk succeeded in looking more realistic and more integrated into his surroundings was because of that resemblance. But hey, that's just me, we can agree to disagree. There's certainly been enough Hulk interpretations in comics, cartoons, tv shows & movies to have a personal preference.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Are you kidding?? Ive been a hulk fan for 32 years my friend. The only time the hulk should resemble the hulk is the professor incarnation. The hulk is not banner, he IS the monster Banner becomes.

Once again...
WTF?
Do you know who Hulk is?

The Hulk is the embodiment of Banner’s repressed emotions, so, if Hulk is his feelings come to live how can they be two separate entities.
How can you say that Hulk should only resemble Banner is in the professor incarnation, but say they are two seperare entities?
So, in his professor incarnation he is Banner, but in the others they are two diferent entities?
It doesn´t even make sense...

You don't like Hulk resembling Banner...fine, but then again, what i said was that, in the midst of his hulking face, there should be traces of Banner as they are one and the same.
I never said he should be 100% Banner like

 

[marcvader]

Ang's Hulk did a much better job of making him look real in his environment. I don't know if it was the shadows or the textures of his skin. Even his hair looked real in some shots. Duplicating this needs to be key in this latest incarnation whatever the design may be.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I understand where your coming from, but...Hulk is Banner, not a monster Banner transforms into.

Actually, Hulk is a monster (in looks, attitude and power) that Banner transforms into.

Yes they are different expressions of the same being, but they are totally different personalities. Even different incarnatins of the Hulk differ in appearance and personality.

Hulk is the personification of rage and fear, of Banner´s repressed feelings, so he needs to look like a creature, but at the end of the day, when Hulk is at peace, when he is sleeping, if you look closely, you will see Banner in the midst of that hulking face.

No, I think Hulk should resemble, Hulk when relaxed.

But to be fair, in his earliest incarnations, Hulk seemed to sometimes resemble Banner, but I think that idea doe not do the character justice.

 

[The Hulk]

I promised myself I wouldn't get into this anymore, but....



The Hulk is a transformation, a mutation. He isn't a separate entity physically, it's Bruce Banner transformed. They share the same skull, skeleton, etc. It's up to the artists' discretion to choose to depict the comic Hulk however they see fit, and yes, a lot of them choose to illustrate the Hulk 1000 feet tall, with 1000 pounds of muscle and 0 body fat. That's just one way though, and depending on who you are, maybe you didn't grow up on that Hulk.

In live action, I feel the resemblance helps with the illusion of him actually being real and emoting. Part of the reason I think Ang's Hulk succeeded in looking more realistic and more integrated into his surroundings was because of that resemblance. But hey, that's just me, we can agree to disagree. There's certainly been enough Hulk interpretations in comics, cartoons, tv shows & movies to have a personal preference.

let me explain what i mean by separate entity. Bruce does not change into a stronger version of himself, he changes into a completely different characer in every form. While the share Bruces body, once the hulk is out Banner is no longer. Hulk has his own personality and appearence, take joe Fixit for example, zero Banner there. Green hulk is green hulk, grey hulk is grey hulk and Banner is Banner. Thats how it should always be. Man as bad as the tv show was they didnt slap the make up on Bill Bixby did they? Hulk should look like the savage monster he is and hate banner with all his might and not one moment should he look anything like the person he hates most.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Actually, Hulk is a monster (in looks, attitude and power) that Banner transforms into.

Yes they are different expressions of the same being, but they are totally different personalities. Even different incarnatins of the Hulk differ in appearance and personality.

Once again, i get where your coming from, but i can´t agree.
Hulk is a physical manifestation of Banner´s feelings, they are not as diferent as some people think, and at the same time, they are.
Using the green goliath persona as an example...

Hulk is the embodiment of rage and fear and that rage and fear comes from Banner from when he was 5 or 6, so, they are not that diferent because they are the same person.
But at the same time they are as Hulk is Banner´s feelings when he was a kid, and no adult is the same as he was a kid, his feelings have changed, his personality a change and so on...

No, I think Hulk should resemble, Hulk when relaxed.

But to be fair, in his earliest incarnations, Hulk seemed to sometimes resemble Banner, but I think that idea doe not do the character justice.

Imagine rage with a physical body, he would be scariest being alive, only a glimpse of him would give you an heart attack.
Hulk looks human because he is the physical manifestation of the feelings of a human, so yeah, he needs to have traces of Banner as they are one and the same.
Not 100% Banner like, but some, for example, his eyes as he gets calmer (the eyes are the window to the soul)

 

[Golgo-13]

I hope they do keep the fact that 'Hulk hates Banner' aspect of the character. That was never explored in either of the films.

Hulk is Banner in body only but not in mind. Think multiple personality disorder, where each personality considers him/herself an individual.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Hulk should look like the savage monster he is and hate banner with all his might and not one moment should he look anything like the person he hates most.

I´m sorry, but your missing the point.
Hulk hates Banner, in other words, he hates his weaker self because he fears him.
Hulk is incredibly complex (no pun intended), he is way more than just a monster that breaks stuff.

Using the Green Goliath as an example

Hulk is a physical manifestation of Banner´s repressed feelings when he was a kid, when his father killed his mother, when his father hated and feared him.
So, in Hulk´s eyes, Banner represents his past, what happened that made him represse his feelings.
So yeah, he hates him, but more importantly, he fears him that´s why he hates him.
Of course Hulk doesn´t know that nor will be ever, as Hulk is a living breeding emotion.

 

[Doc Samson]

let me explain what i mean by separate entity. Bruce does not change into a stronger version of himself, he changes into a completely different characer in every form. While the share Bruces body, once the hulk is out Banner is no longer. Hulk has his own personality and appearence, take joe Fixit for example, zero Banner there. Green hulk is green hulk, grey hulk is grey hulk and Banner is Banner. Thats how it should always be. Man as bad as the tv show was they didnt slap the make up on Bill Bixby did they? Hulk should look like the savage monster he is and hate banner with all his might and not one moment should he look anything like the person he hates most.

I get that part, Hulk (and each manifestation of him) has a separate personality. But they do share the same body, and the Hulk should have certain characteristics that are similar. It's not like his nose falls off, or his mouth disappears, it transforms, and I think, should look as such.

Actually, they did slap the makeup on Bill Bixby for in-between transformations. If you look at him in those instances, he doesn't appear that different from Lou Ferrigno in the face at all. Check the first pilot during the first Hulk-out when Bixby has on the wig & green paint for a split second or even the Prometheus episode. Heck, even promo shots where they did the split face thing with him and Lou, He doesn't look vastly different, save of course the 100 or so pounds of muscle

 

[Rock Sexton]

Ang's Hulk did a much better job of making him look real in his environment. I don't know if it was the shadows or the textures of his skin. Even his hair looked real in some shots. Duplicating this needs to be key in this latest incarnation whatever the design may be.

I thought he looked like CGI taffy.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I promised myself I wouldn't get into this anymore, but....

C'mon...Bruce Banner/Hulk is fun to explore.

The Hulk is a transformation, a mutation. He isn't a separate entity physically, it's Bruce Banner transformed. They share the same skull, skeleton, etc. It's up to the artists' discretion to choose to depict the comic Hulk however they see fit, and yes, a lot of them choose to illustrate the Hulk 1000 feet tall, with 1000 pounds of muscle and 0 body fat. That's just one way though, and depending on who you are, maybe you didn't grow up on that Hulk.

I like to put it this way, in essence they are certainly the same being, as they occupy the same time in space, but clearly they have totally different mindsets.

True artists depictions differ, but in a live action film, the studio can control thre look of a character to an extent.

In live action, I feel the resemblance helps with the illusion of him actually being real and emoting. Part of the reason I think Ang's Hulk succeeded in looking more realistic and more integrated into his surroundings was because of that resemblance. But hey, that's just me, we can agree to disagree. There's certainly been enough Hulk interpretations in comics, cartoons, tv shows & movies to have a personal preference.

I don't know, Hulk from the 2008 had no problem emoting and making it believable and he didn't look much like Norton. In that film, they used the mova technique that was able to match the actors expressions to the character. Norton did a good job. I also thought the Hulk from 2008 was blended into the scenery perfectly. Check out the campus fight scene again.

 

[Doc Samson]

C'mon...Bruce Banner/Hulk is fun to explore.

It can be, with certain posters. You know as well as I do how quickly things can spiral out of control. But I enjoy our duels rather well t:

I like to put it this way, in essence they are certainly the same being, as they occupy the same time in space, but clearly they have totally different mindsets.

True artists depictions differ, but in a live action film, the studio can control thre look of a character to an extent.

Certainly agree on the separate mindsets, it's pretty much the crux of the character. But IMHO, in live action, making that physical similarity slightly more pronounced (I'm not talking twins here) adds to the illusion of the Hulk being a living, breathing, monstrosity.

I look at the '03 Hulk poster, and even though it's an artist rendering and we barely see his face, it looks extremely real, moreso than some of the scenes in the movie itself. I think alot of that is due to the mutated humanoid look of that design.

I don't know, Hulk from the 2008 had no problem emoting and making it believable and he didn't look much like Norton. In that film, they used the mova technique that was able to match the actors expressions to the character. Norton did a good job. I also thought the Hulk from 2008 was blended into the scenery perfectly. Check out the campus fight scene again.

I think he didn't have a problem looking angry, which he did very well lol. But I thought he looked alot less convincing showing any other type of emotion, and I certainly don't think he blended into the scenery very well at all, the campus scene being the most egregious IMO.

Alot of it was fast cuts in that scene, where he was moving very fast after the tanks, then Blonsky. But when we get that face to face (not the shot with both of them in the frame, the one from over Blonsky's shoulder) I couldn't buy any of that. The closeup on his face when he looks at Betty before the choppers shoot at him, same thing.

Even when he gets hit with the sonic cannons, anytime they did a closeup of his face, he just looked rubbery, and fake. But like I said before, TIH was way more consistent than Ang's. When Ang's Hulk was on, it was really good, when it wasn't, well, it was terrible

 

[Gamma Ra]

Once again, i get where your coming from, but i can´t agree.
Hulk is a physical manifestation of Banner´s feelings, they are not as diferent as some people think, and at the same time, they are.
Using the green goliath persona as an example...

Hulk is the embodiment of rage and fear and that rage and fear comes from Banner from when he was 5 or 6, so, they are not that diferent because they are the same person.
But at the same time they are as Hulk is Banner´s feelings when he was a kid, and no adult is the same as he was a kid, his feelings have changed, his personality a change and so on...

I'm sure at 5 or six, young Banner was not going around saying HULK SMASH, or PUNY HUMANS. Hulk is a little more than just Banner's repressed rage, he's also been described as Banner's "survival instinct externalized."

If you are saying that "they are not as different as some people think," how do you explain their different views? The fact that they want to be rid of one another?

I agree they share common traits, but they definitely react differently to similar scenarios.

Imagine rage with a physical body, he would be scariest being alive, only a glimpse of him would give you an heart attack.
Hulk looks human because he is the physical manifestation of the feelings of a human, so yeah, he needs to have traces of Banner as they are one and the same.
Not 100% Banner like, but some, for example, his eyes as he gets calmer (the eyes are the window to the soul)

If Hulk was pure rage, how could he ever be calm, cry or feel love or any other emotion? All of which he has done in comics.

It has never been explained why Banner looks like a neanderthal and primitive or why the Mindless Hulk looked ape-like in the comics. Any talk is pure speculation. We do know that gamma radiation, if a character can survive it, brings out the darkest and deepest thoughts. Sometimes they are pleasant to look at. She-Hulk and Samson.