The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 2

[daderade]

Hulk being able to lift Mjolnir, or break Caps shield is the stupidest thing i ever heard of. What would be the purpose of the Avengers if Hulk could do everything they could and more, and they couldnt stop him. It isnt done that way in the comics and sure as hell shouldnt be done on film.

 

[Herolee10]

Hulk being able to lift Mjolnir, or break Caps shield is the stupidest thing i ever heard of. What would be the purpose of the Avengers if Hulk could do everything they could and more, and they couldnt stop him. It isnt done that way in the comics and sure as hell shouldnt be done on film.

Wholeheartedly agreed; and this isn't me hating on the Hulk or anything; I just don't think any ONE member should be presented as ALL POWERFUL to the point where they could do everything and anything because of their unbelievable amount of strength.

 

[DarthAlani]

Abomination also has Super Strength, so that helps with piercing. Also the Hulk has a Super Immune system, funny you guys seem to have forgot.

 

[daderade]

Im not hating on anyone either, Hulk is my second favorite character behind Thor. I am completely against characters getting deus ex showings based on potential popularity or wow factor. stick to how they are written.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

 

[Xeno]

Wholeheartedly agreed; and this isn't me hating on the Hulk or anything; I just don't think any ONE member should be presented as ALL POWERFUL to the point where they could do everything and anything because of their unbelievable amount of strength.

I agree with this, as well. The Hulk has apparently become Marvel's Superman analog, a character so powerful that he renders both the stories he's in and other heroes meaningless. If nothing can hurt him and he can do practically anything, what's the use? In Superman's case he became impossible to write for, leading to his eventual "death" and de-powering. Hulk seems to be either an outright serial killer/villain (Ultimates) or an unstoppable nuisance. Does he even have any purpose other than to cause senseless mass destruction?

Movie Hulk needs to be handled in a much more reasonable manner than the ridiculous comic book version.

 

[darthmagic]

Honestly, It seems like the guys complaining about the Hulks unstoppable nature and limitless strength are Thor fans upset that he can best the Thunder God. Personally i LOVE it if Hulk can lift Mjolnir because it's so freaking awesome. Not a fan of Hulk breaking captain america's shield though.

Again, no one is saying hulk should be able to defeat an alien army by himself, but he should be able to turn the tide in any fight. Ultimately, this comes down to how you view the character and IMO he needs to be not just powerful, but INCREDIBLE

 

[Herolee10]

I agree with this, as well. The Hulk has apparently become Marvel's Superman analog, a character so powerful that he renders both the stories he's in and other heroes meaningless. If nothing can hurt him and he can do practically anything, what's the use? In Superman's case he became impossible to write for, leading to his eventual "death" and de-powering. Hulk seems to be either an outright serial killer/villain (Ultimates) or an unstoppable nuisance. Does he even have any purpose other than to cause senseless mass destruction?

Movie Hulk needs to be handled in a much more reasonable manner than the ridiculous comic book version.

Actually, from what I’ve heard, the Hulk is better written in the comics in some cases than most would think he is.

But in terms of his portrayal in the media, I think the best version of his characterization has been thus far the one in the animated series: EMH’s. There he’s portrayed in a heroic fashion without it being campy or cliché like for his character.

 

[daderade]

First off, i am a Thor fan, its no secret. I have liked the Hulk LONGER(16 years) than i liked Thor(JMS/Coipel got me into Thor) and was turned off by Loeb and others who destroyed his entire "universe". I dont like when ANY character renders the rest of the team unnecessary. That is poor writing and out of character for just about everyone else on the team. Keep in mind this is a movie ABOUT the AVENGERS, not the HULK alone.

 

[darthmagic]

First off, i am a Thor fan, its no secret. I have liked the Hulk LONGER(16 years) than i liked Thor(JMS/Coipel got me into Thor) and was turned off by Loeb and others who destroyed his entire "universe". I dont like when ANY character renders the rest of the team unnecessary. That is poor writing and out of character for just about everyone else on the team. Keep in mind this is a movie ABOUT the AVENGERS, not the HULK alone.

Fair enough, but it comes down to team dynamics. Lets look at the roles: Captain America is the tactical leader. He's solid and dependable. Iron Man is the witty, technology saavy older brother of the group. Thor is the powerful, multipurpose threat who can deal great damage to the enemy and is eye candy for the ladies. You have to have a wild card. Someone who can be a threat to the group but also it's greatest asset in a fight. Again, no one is suggesting that Hulk be "unstoppable" but he must be THE difference maker in a fight or else what good is he? The rest of the group should be afraid to unleash him cause it is very possible that he may lose control.

 

[daderade]

I definately see what you are saying, just not wanting/worried about them going overboard to satisfy what they feel is "popular" or "edgy"

 

[Savage]

The thing is Hulk isn't usually some character hanging around until Cap yells Avengers Assemble. For all intents and purposes the team will be Hulk-less until Bruce Banner is set off or even needed as their hail mary. If it's like A: EMH then I can see the cause for concern with Hulk being a glory hog but something tells me everybody will get their chance to shine in this movie and Hulk pops up in all his expensive CGI glory for MAYBE 2 scenes. 3 scenes if we're really lucky and chances are one of them the Avengers will be fighting him while the other 2 he'll show up for the end of the fight.

In fact that's EXACTLY what happened in The Ultimate books where Hulk had a much longer tenure on the team than he did in the regular books. Expect a lot of inspiration to be taken from that because what else are they gonna use as a source? His one and a half issues?

 

[darthmagic]

The thing is Hulk isn't usually some character hanging around until Cap yells Avengers Assemble. For all intents and purposes the team will be Hulk-less until Bruce Banner is set off or even needed as their hail mary. If it's like A: EMH then I can see the cause for concern with Hulk being a glory hog but something tells me everybody will get their chance to shine in this movie and Hulk pops up in all his expensive CGI glory for MAYBE 2 scenes. 3 scenes if we're really lucky and chances are one of them the Avengers will be fighting him while the other 2 he'll show up for the end of the fight.

In fact that's EXACTLY what happened in The Ultimate books where Hulk had a much longer tenure on the team than he did in the regular books. Expect a lot of inspiration to be taken from that because what else are they gonna use as a source? His one and a half issues?

I agree 100 percent

 

[Xeno]

Fair enough, but it comes down to team dynamics. Lets look at the roles: Captain America is the tactical leader. He's solid and dependable. Iron Man is the witty, technology saavy older brother of the group. Thor is the powerful, multipurpose threat who can deal great damage to the enemy and is eye candy for the ladies. You have to have a wild card. Someone who can be a threat to the group but also it's greatest asset in a fight. Again, no one is suggesting that Hulk be "unstoppable" but he must be THE difference maker in a fight or else what good is he? The rest of the group should be afraid to unleash him cause it is very possible that he may lose control.

Don't kid yourself. All of the male Avengers are eye candy for the ladies. Even Mark "Blue Steel" Ruffalo has his fans. Disney should market the film as being stocked with hunks to maximize the number of women who turn out.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, It seems like the guys complaining about the Hulks unstoppable nature and limitless strength are Thor fans upset that he can best the Thunder God. Personally i LOVE it if Hulk can lift Mjolnir because it's so freaking awesome. Not a fan of Hulk breaking captain america's shield though.

Again, no one is saying hulk should be able to defeat an alien army by himself, but he should be able to turn the tide in any fight. Ultimately, this comes down to how you view the character and IMO he needs to be not just powerful, but INCREDIBLE

That's assuming a lot don't ya think? I'm not just a fan of Thor's on the team, as I've come to appreciate the character of the Hulk as well.

Odin is labeled as one of the strongest beings in the entire Marvel Universe, and it was his powers that ensured that no one but a worthy person may lift up Thor's hammer, so no matter how strong Hulk is, unless his power exceeds Odin's, which is impossible imho, he will NEVER be able to lift it.

Also; I've never said that the Hulk shouldn't be portrayed as a powerful being. He is the trump card for the Avengers, no doubt about that, however, even a character such as himself needs to have limits imho, otherwise nothing would seem threatening for his character and it would become old and repetitive. And while the Hulk's ultimate strength may surpasses Thor's, I think Thor has a wider range of abilities that would easily allow him to go toe to toe with the Hulk, especially from what we've seen of both of their abilities in the MCU films.

I don't think ANY avenger should be portrayed as all powerful, but that doesn't mean that I don't want them to be portrayed as powerful beings. There's a difference between the two statements there.

 

[cherokeesam]

Maybe it'll be a testament to Cap's leadership abilities, if he is able to calm Hulk. Something that only Betty and Rick could do in the comics.

I have a *strong* feeling that it'll actually be Widow who provides the "calming" influence on Banner/Hulk. There've already been rumors that Natasha is supposed to be at least flirty with Banner, and some of the leaked script (real or not) had references to her kinda talking Hulk down to keep his rage in check.

I wouldn't put a "Beauty and the Beast" motif past Joss Whedon, the unabashed "girl power" guru of nerdfilm, at all.

Yeah, too bad Hulkster snuffed the "feeble flame" of your magic hands with a mere twitch of his big green meathooks, eh, Doc....?

In other semi-related news: looks like the Dr. Strange movie is getting closer to becoming a reality....a Disney fansite found Disney establishing domain names for a slew of Marvel-related soundtrack sites, including Avengers, IM3, Thor 2 and....yes, Dr. Strange. So I'd say the Sorcerer Supreme is definitely on Marv's fast track now.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I have a *strong* feeling that it'll actually be Widow who provides the "calming" influence on Banner/Hulk. There've already been rumors that Natasha is supposed to be at least flirty with Banner, and some of the leaked script (real or not) had references to her kinda talking Hulk down to keep his rage in check.

I wouldn't put a "Beauty and the Beast" motif past Joss Whedon, the unabashed "girl power" guru of nerdfilm, at all.



Yeah, too bad Hulkster snuffed the "feeble flame" of your magic hands with a mere twitch of his big green meathooks, eh, Doc....?

In other semi-related news: looks like the Dr. Strange movie is getting closer to becoming a reality....a Disney fansite found Disney establishing domain names for a slew of Marvel-related soundtrack sites, including Avengers, IM3, Thor 2 and....yes, Dr. Strange. So I'd say the Sorcerer Supreme is definitely on Marv's fast track now.

Yeah, but that was after Strange beat the crap out of him and then felt bad about it afterwards! And yeah I heard about the possible movie, that's why I posted that pic. Here's to hoping it goes through!

 

[Lantern Venom]

Hulk's in this movie to be a member of The Avengers, not to cause complete havoc.

If we were discussing the Professor, I'd agree, but this is (presumably) the Savage version. Unless the storyline keeps Hulk Banner-controlled for most of the movie, Hulk is (as Ruffalo put it) a "grenade in the middle of the group". It's obvious that he's going to be as dangerous to his team as he is to his enemies.

 

[Herolee10]

If we were discussing the Professor, I'd agree, but this is (presumably) the Savage version. Unless the storyline keeps Hulk Banner-controlled for most of the movie, Hulk is (as Ruffalo put it) a "grenade in the middle of the group". It's obvious that he's going to be as dangerous to his team as he is to his enemies.

Perhaps, but if they were so afraid of the Hulk, I'd imagine that they wouldn't let Banner walk around so freely within the hellcarrier, and the EW article stated that the Hulk actually saves Iron Man from falling onto the ground hard from the sky by catching him in his arms.

Then there's also what Tom mentioned about the Hulk being apart of the group when they look down at him as he's defeated.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Sure, it isn't the 616 universe but it does show that Marvel is willing to bend the rules for the Hulk outside of the main continuity. Given that the movies don't always hold steadfast to the comics, I wouldn't put very much outside of possibilties for the Hulk, including breaking Cap's shield or lifting Mjolnir.



No, it was clearly not the actual,classic Mjolnir but the implication that Hulk was bypassing the worthiness standard was there. Not only did he struggle to lift it, Thor was clearly shocked to see Hulk holding it.

The Hulk is Marvel's 2nd or 3rd most recognizable character, which means he gets preferential treatment outside of the 616 universe, much like Spidey and Wolverine. The Hulk's abilities might be limited in the upcoming movie, but they might not.

Look...Read the Ultimate Thor mini and then talk to me. The hammer Hulk lifted was not mjolnir. It's an artificial hammer and it's supposed to be very hard to lift, but there's nothing of 'worthiness' about it. It's a fact. But if you want to ignore what was shown in the mini, I can do nothing abuot it.

 

[BigThor]

If we were discussing the Professor, I'd agree, but this is (presumably) the Savage version. Unless the storyline keeps Hulk Banner-controlled for most of the movie, Hulk is (as Ruffalo put it) a "grenade in the middle of the group". It's obvious that he's going to be as dangerous to his team as he is to his enemies.

okay

 

[Lantern Venom]

Perhaps, but if they were so afraid of the Hulk, I'd imagine that they wouldn't let Banner walk around so freely within the hellcarrier, and the EW article stated that the Hulk actually saves Iron Man from falling onto the ground hard from the sky by catching him in his arms.

Then there's also what Tom mentioned about the Hulk being apart of the group when they look down at him as he's defeated.

If he's reasoned with and aimed, Hulk can be heroic as in TIH. As long as the movie is good, I'll live with inconsistencies (although it will certainly anger avid fans of other Avengers) whether he ends up opposing the rest of the team or helping them.

 

[cherokeesam]

If he's reasoned with and aimed, Hulk can be heroic as in TIH. As long as the movie is good, I'll live with inconsistencies (although it will certainly anger avid fans of other Avengers) whether he ends up opposing the rest of the team or helping them.

The bottom line is: merchandising.
Marvel isn't going to sell a lot of Hulk toys to little kids if Hulk is perceived to be an enemy or too unstable to be a true hero.

Hulk is very definitely going to be a team player. He'll probably be dragged kicking and screaming into the group, yeah, but once he's an Avenger, he's not going to go off trashing cities or rampaging against soldiers and civvies.

And I'm pretty sure that the whole reason they chose Mark Ruffalo (and the "Zoolander" photos seem to bear this out) is that, after Ed Norton learned to control the inner beast viz. the cabin scene at the end of TIH, we're going to see a kinder, gentler Banner and Hulk this goround. Yes, I very much expect that Hulk is starting to lean towards "Professor" Hulk in Avengers.

 

[darthmagic]

The bottom line is: merchandising.
Marvel isn't going to sell a lot of Hulk toys to little kids if Hulk is perceived to be an enemy or too unstable to be a true hero.

Hulk is very definitely going to be a team player. He'll probably be dragged kicking and screaming into the group, yeah, but once he's an Avenger, he's not going to go off trashing cities or rampaging against soldiers and civvies.

And I'm pretty sure that the whole reason they chose Mark Ruffalo (and the "Zoolander" photos seem to bear this out) is that, after Ed Norton learned to control the inner beast viz. the cabin scene at the end of TIH, we're going to see a kinder, gentler Banner and Hulk this goround. Yes, I very much expect that Hulk is starting to lean towards "Professor" Hulk in Avengers.

Everything we've heard from the actors suggest the opposite of this. Yes, he will be a hero, but almost an Anti-Hero type.

 

[Lantern Venom]

The bottom line is: merchandising.
Marvel isn't going to sell a lot of Hulk toys to little kids if Hulk is perceived to be an enemy or too unstable to be a true hero.

Hulk is very definitely going to be a team player. He'll probably be dragged kicking and screaming into the group, yeah, but once he's an Avenger, he's not going to go off trashing cities or rampaging against soldiers and civvies.

And I'm pretty sure that the whole reason they chose Mark Ruffalo (and the "Zoolander" photos seem to bear this out) is that, after Ed Norton learned to control the inner beast viz. the cabin scene at the end of TIH, we're going to see a kinder, gentler Banner and Hulk this goround. Yes, I very much expect that Hulk is starting to lean towards "Professor" Hulk in Avengers.

I agree that his inclusion (for name recognition with GenPop) is about selling merch. However, I don't share your confidence in Hulk being "kinder & gentler". I think we could see anything from the chilled-out Hulk in EMH to the completely ballistic Hulk who ransacked Asgard in Hulk vs Thor.