The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

[Willie Lumpkin]

The more I hear about the Franklin/Valeria film, the more convinced I am it's a negotiating ploy from Fox timed to coincide with the soon to be very successful Spider-Man Homecoming.

With more sites reporting the film as likely, that indicates to me that somebody from Fox is whispering in their ears.

And there's no logical reason for Fox to be whispering in their ears if they really plan to make the film. The idea is universally hated and every mention gives an excuse for people like us to talk about how much we hate it all over the internet.

Bad buzz is like cancer. People who don't currently give a s*** about FF will join the fun of trashing the idea and it will be soon so universally known and hated that if they actually officially announce it, it will already be done before it started.

Which would be kind of fun, but it will never happen because Fox is just trying to get Marvel to talk about a deal.

 

[First Avenger]

The thing is,Fox are a bunch of idiots. So I believe they will make this travesty.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The thing is,Fox are a bunch of idiots. So I believe they will make this travesty.

I honestly think there are limits to their idiocy.

With Fant4stic, for example, Trank was a talented director, and they hadn't yet used up all the good-will of FF fans at the start of production. And when things started to go off the rails, it seems they did try to fix things, but it was beyond fixing (and nobody who really knew how to fix it was involved). And because of the contract, they couldn't take the time they needed to really scrap everything and start over.

So while I hate what they've done to FF on an emotional, visceral level, I can sort of see how they dug themselves into this hole.

And while they've made some bad decisions along the way, I can't really point to anything that would be as absolutely stupid as green-lighting the Franklin/Valeria film.

... now with that said, Simon Kinberg to write and direct Dark Phoenix? ... okay, you got me there.

 

[Spiderine]

The more I hear about the Franklin/Valeria film, the more convinced I am it's a negotiating ploy from Fox timed to coincide with the soon to be very successful Spider-Man Homecoming.

With more sites reporting the film as likely, that indicates to me that somebody from Fox is whispering in their ears.

And there's no logical reason for Fox to be whispering in their ears if they really plan to make the film. The idea is universally hated and every mention gives an excuse for people like us to talk about how much we hate it all over the internet.

Bad buzz is like cancer. People who don't currently give a s*** about FF will join the fun of trashing the idea and it will be soon so universally known and hated that if they actually officially announce it, it will already be done before it started.

Which would be kind of fun, but it will never happen because Fox is just trying to get Marvel to talk about a deal.

Sounds like rumors being put out by FOX to gauge reaction and scare tactic for Marvel. I am sure FOX has opened up the internet and have seen the rage and uproar in response to any attempt of another film. If you don't have the support of fans you sure as hell won't get it from the GA. Nobody cares about the FF under FOX. Its all a bluff.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

But if Fox do try another FF I'm done with them completely. I don't care how well a Marvel film from them is received the only way I'll see it before it hits my cable is if you put a parrot on my shoulder and call me Jack Sparrow.

This was basically what I meant. DP was cool but then Kinberg got to running his mouth about another 4stic sequel during an XM:A interview and I haven't seen another Fox or Fox-Marvel movie since DP.

So yeah DP wasn't good enough for me to support it in the future knowing that it gives Simon Kinberg continuous 1up's.

 

[Panacea]

I predict that another Fantastic Four-universe movie will be announced within the next six months.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

This is just funny to me. I see all the MCU movies regardless of being Team Fox. THE MCU people boycot the fox films.

Yeah, you do that because you still like the MCU films, not because there's gun pointed at your head in theaters.

For me it's been 17 years and the only thing close to a real Marvel movie at Fox has been Deadpool. So spare us the lame political guilt trips. Do whatever you want with your time and money and we'll do the same.

Not seeing movies you don't think you'll like makes sense to me. I'm still going to see Deadpool 2 since 1 was so great, but the rest seem really iffy the way they are heading and there is no way in hell I will see another Fox F4 film.

Sadly it's supporting DP sequels that will give Fox the confidence to entertain the idea of making another F4 reboot. So I'm done with Fox entirely.

 

[Spiderine]

If FOX were to make another FF film then its clear there is another agenda and it has absolutely nothing to do with the success of its other properties. It would by far be the strangest thing I have ever witnessed from a major movie studio to continue to invest in something that reaped so little or costed them in return when it was never a successful franchise to begin with.

This would mean FOX literally believes the rights they have in their possession is worth more to them and Marvel than even we all believe.

 

[wobbly]

Yeah... usually an attempt at a franchise fails that's it. Wild Wild West, John Carter, Lone Ranger, The Avengers (British version, lol) , The Phantom, The Shadow, The Spirit...one & done's and rightly so.

But Fox might try a 3rd attempt at the FF in 15 years? At what point does someone cutting the checks at Fox ask the question: Why the ***k are we throwing more cash into this money pit?

 

[Val_Zod]

Yeah... usually an attempt at a franchise fails that's it. Wild Wild West, John Carter, Lone Ranger, The Avengers (British version, lol) , The Phantom, The Shadow, The Spirit...one & done's and rightly so.

But Fox might try a 3rd attempt at the FF in 15 years? At what point does someone cutting the checks at Fox ask the question: Why the ***k are we throwing more cash into this money pit?

Wouldn't the rights return to Marvel at that point?

 

[wobbly]

Wouldn't the rights return to Marvel at that point?

Not if Fox try again before the reversion deadline. If we assume they'd need to be well into development at least by 2020 that would be 15 years since FF1 in 2005.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah... usually an attempt at a franchise fails that's it. Wild Wild West, John Carter, Lone Ranger, The Avengers (British version, lol) , The Phantom, The Shadow, The Spirit...one & done's and rightly so.

But Fox might try a 3rd attempt at the FF in 15 years? At what point does someone cutting the checks at Fox ask the question: Why the ***k are we throwing more cash into this money pit?

I don't believe it for a minute. If we were in 2020 and they were talking about a film with some possibility of commercial success, I'd be getting a little nervous, but this rumour is too ridiculous to be true.

 

[Panacea]

If FOX were to make another FF film then its clear there is another agenda and it has absolutely nothing to do with the success of its other properties. It would by far be the strangest thing I have ever witnessed from a major movie studio to continue to invest in something that reaped so little or costed them in return when it was never a successful franchise to begin with.

This would mean FOX literally believes the rights they have in their possession is worth more to them and Marvel than even we all believe.

If Marvel wants the rights then why wouldn't Fox? There's clearly money to be made there, even if they haven't got it right so far. The only way I see Fox parting with the rights is if Marvel comes in with a decent chunk of money for them, which I suspect they are reluctant to do so long as they have lots of other properties to deal with. In the meant time the rumoured next generation film or a Doctor Doom movie seems more likely than Fox just letting the rights revert back for nothing. That would be crazy.

 

[Crimz]

Right now I'm angry at both companies:

Fox for even thinking of making another travesty of and FF film and this one could kill the FF forever.

And Marvel for not dipping their hands into their deep pockets to get the rights back. Especially when they are punishing fans for the studio not having the rights, by cancelling anything FF related.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

If Marvel wants the rights then why wouldn't Fox? There's clearly money to be made there, even if they haven't got it right so far. The only way I see Fox parting with the rights is if Marvel comes in with a decent chunk of money for them, which I suspect they are reluctant to do so long as they have lots of other properties to deal with. In the meant time the rumoured next generation film or a Doctor Doom movie seems more likely than Fox just letting the rights revert back for nothing. That would be crazy.

I think its already been established that Fox are some greedy pr!cks. It's why 4stic was made in the first place.

But with all that's been lost in making 4stic. What's "YOUR" definition of crazy moving forward with this franchise if you're Fox?

Another $80M+ down the drain...?
Another significant drop in shares..?
More faith lost in Fox-Marvel films that aren't rated R??

In all likelihood that Franklin and Valeria rumor is Fox testing out the atmosphere, while trying to get Disney's attention as well. And on the flipside Marvel/Disney are assessing the situation as well and coming up with the same conclusion. Other than the Rated R Marvel films Fox has been a mess. This is why Gambit is in Development hell. So let them boast about untitled Marvel movies all they want!

A good Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Dr. Strange Sequel and good potential with Namor (being MCU's Wolverine) taking on the Hulk or Wakanda will keep my mind off anything Marvel doesn't have access to for the next 10 years. While Sony crash and burns their crummy Venom-verse and Fox hedges all their bets on Ryan Reynold's and his overall box office track record.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In all likelihood that Franklin and Valeria rumor is Fox testing out the atmosphere, while trying to get Disney's attention as well.

And can you imagine the hapless Fox manager trying to sell the idea after the reaction?

"You can see here the tabulation of the social media reaction. One percent of reactions were positive, nine percent were neutral to negative, and ninety percent were vehemently opposed and responded with obscenity-laced tirades."



If they really were considering it, it has to be a non-starter now.

 

[Panacea]

I think its already been established that Fox are some greedy pr!cks. It's why 4stic was made in the first place.

But with all that's been lost in making 4stic. What's "YOUR" definition of crazy moving forward with this franchise if you're Fox?

Giving away a valuable property for free. That would be crazy. The ideal scenario is you find a way to make a profitable series of FF movies, the next best thing would be to sell the rights to someone (anyone) for a decent amount of money. The idea that Fox will simply allow the rights to revert back to Marvel however takes wishful thinking to nonsensical levels, bar some Daredevil-esque scheduling fumble opening the door, this is simply not going to happen. Fox has a long track record of making profitable superhero movies, they know they can do it, they're not going to randomly bank on their own ineptitude and throw away the property for nothing. If Marvel wants the rights back, then they're going to have to get the cheque book out.

 

[Zarex]

How is the FF valuable for FOX? The studio hasn't made a dime off of the franchise in a dozen years. It's very expensive to put on-screen, has been in steep BO decline since its first unimpressive outing and FFINO killed off all interest in the franchise. FOX would be much wiser to put another Independence Day or Assassins Creed film into production than Fant4sti2.

FOX has an uneven track record at best when it comes to their Marvel properties - for every Logan there's an Apocalypse - and their track record in regards to the FF is the worst of any comic book franchise. Expecting the fourth time to be the charm is beyond foolish.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

How is the FF valuable for FOX? The studio hasn't made a dime off of the franchise in a dozen years. It's very expensive to put on-screen, has been in steep BO decline since its first unimpressive outing and FFINO killed off all interest in the franchise. FOX would be much wiser to put another Independence Day or Assassins Creed film into production than Fant4sti2.

FOX has an uneven track record at best when it comes to their Marvel properties - for every Logan there's an Apocalypse - and their track record in regards to the FF is the worst of any comic book franchise. Expecting the fourth time to be the charm is beyond foolish.

And even if Fox decided they would spend the money to do it right (which would represent a huge risk to a studio that is very risk averse). They'd find themselves stuck the moment they tried to hire a talented director. Directors will know about the vitriol and no director will want their Twitter account filled with obscene rants. And even if they hired a talented director, they'd have the same problem finding a talented cast.

And even if they took the leap and managed to find a talented director and cast all willing to risk their careers, the whole project would be battling an angry mob from the beginning. The film would be presumed terrible until proven otherwise and the key thing that helps every successful superhero film - an enthusiastic fan-base supporting the project and showing up opening weekend - wouldn't be there. And we won't just not be there, we'll be telling our friends not to go and creating bad-buzz all over the internet.

If they push ahead, the amount of hate will be unprecedented and the chances for success will be extremely, extremely small.

 

[Xeno]

And even if Fox decided they would spend the money to do it right (which would represent a huge risk to a studio that is very risk averse). They'd find themselves stuck the moment they tried to hire a talented director. Directors will know about the vitriol and no director will want their Twitter account filled with obscene rants. And even if they hired a talented director, they'd have the same problem finding a talented cast.

And even if they took the leap and managed to find a talented director and cast all willing to risk their careers, the whole project would be battling an angry mob from the beginning. The film would be presumed terrible until proven otherwise and the key thing that helps every successful superhero film - an enthusiastic fan-base supporting the project and showing up opening weekend - wouldn't be there. And we won't just not be there, we'll be telling our friends not to go and creating bad-buzz all over the internet.

If they push ahead, the amount of hate will be unprecedented and the chances for success will be extremely, extremely small.

The only way I can imagine Fox greenlighting another FF film is if they went with a bare minimum budget and hired the cheapest "talent" available to make it. That is the way they can minimize their risk, though with such a low budget the director will have to limit the effects shots. The point really won't be drawing in huge numbers of viewers but rather getting something into theaters to retain the rights.

 

[Zarex]

That happened just two years ago with FFINO, and the Murdochs ate a $80M plus loss. In order to put the FF on-screen for less than the $120M cost of FFINO, FOX will have to either show the origin for a third time or have them depowered for a significant portion of the movie. Either one is an awful choice.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

Giving away a valuable property for free. That would be crazy. The ideal scenario is you find a way to make a profitable series of FF movies, the next best thing would be to sell the rights to someone (anyone) for a decent amount of money. The idea that Fox will simply allow the rights to revert back to Marvel however takes wishful thinking to nonsensical levels, bar some Daredevil-esque scheduling fumble opening the door, this is simply not going to happen. Fox has a long track record of making profitable superhero movies, they know they can do it, they're not going to randomly bank on their own ineptitude and throw away the property for nothing. If Marvel wants the rights back, then they're going to have to get the cheque book out.

Free? I don't see a "free" aspect here.... Fox "Leases a car" (F4) from Marvel only to realise they can't a drive stick shift too well.

Meanwhile Marvel starts driving their own cars for business purposes and doing it well so Fox renews the lease on this "Car" out of spite only to pay triple for the "insurance" due to crashing it 2 years ago....Yet it's just sitting in its current parking spot never moving. And a "rinse and repeat" business tactic in mind.

If you understand the end result of this analogy, then you'd know that this Driver (Fox) is an idiot and should have their license taken away.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

That happened just two years ago with FFINO, and the Murdochs ate a $80M plus loss. In order to put the FF on-screen for less than the $120M cost of FFINO, FOX will have to either show the origin for a third time or have them depowered for a significant portion of the movie. Either one is an awful choice.

Don't forget they have to market it down the general audience's collective throat, which also costs money. They also did that with Fant4stic so add the marketing costs with that $80M. So Fox has to make another Fantastic Four, which costs money, and market and advertise said movie, which also costs money. I doubt FOX wants to do that, especially with Fant4stic being a bomb. But again, I don't know.

 

[WeaponXCII]

The only way I can imagine Fox greenlighting another FF film is if they went with a bare minimum budget and hired the cheapest "talent" available to make it. That is the way they can minimize their risk, though with such a low budget the director will have to limit the effects shots. The point really won't be drawing in huge numbers of viewers but rather getting something into theaters to retain the rights.

But if I remember correctly, the Corman FF movie would indicate that they wouldn't even have to get it into theaters, yes?

If so, we might have a situation- if you can even fathom it- worse than Fant4stic....

 

[wobbly]

But if I remember correctly, the Corman FF movie would indicate that they wouldn't even have to get it into theaters, yes?

If so, we might have a situation- if you can even fathom it- worse than Fant4stic....

A Corman can't be done again: the agreement with Fox is that whatever they make has to be given a wide theatrical release (so they can't get around the release terms by sneaking a trashcan job out in some back alley theatre).

That condition was not in place in the original deal with Constantin.

That pretty much makes sure Fox has to invest a significant amount in a marketable film. They can try to low ball that as much as possible but the more they pinch the pennies the more likely they will lose money on the effort.... Again.