The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

[TheVileOne]

That may make some sense if the FF had a track record of BO success, like Aliens, Wimpy Kid or Independence Day. But the franchise hasn't earned a dime in over a dozen years, and even that one was a very modest earner. The only reason for FOX to put another FF film into theaters as opposed to literally anything else would be to play keep away with Disney.

And Stockholders are going to treat the arrival of Fant4sti2 the same way they treated FFINO. SELL!

Have you spoken to the stockholders? Do you know how they think or feel? If they sold it to Disney and Disney made a movie that became profitable, you think they'd be OK with that? They'd be like, "Why didn't we do this? We had it and we gave it away?"

You are thinking of this situation only from your own view of "Fox has no other choice but to sell the rights back to Disney so I can get the Fantastic Four movie I always wanted."

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Have you spoken to the stockholders? Do you know how they think or feel? If they sold it to Disney and Disney made a movie that became profitable, you think they'd be OK with that? They'd be like, "Why didn't we do this? We had it and we gave it away?"

You are thinking of this situation only from your own view of "Fox has no other choice but to sell the rights back to Disney so I can get the Fantastic Four movie I always wanted."

And do you think they'd be happy with FOX making another Fan4stic that'll end up as a box office bomb?

 

[Boom]

Has this stupid-ass idea been debunked yet?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Have you spoken to the stockholders? Do you know how they think or feel? If they sold it to Disney and Disney made a movie that became profitable, you think they'd be OK with that? They'd be like, "Why didn't we do this? We had it and we gave it away?"

You are thinking of this situation only from your own view of "Fox has no other choice but to sell the rights back to Disney so I can get the Fantastic Four movie I always wanted."

If I were a stockholder (and I almost certainly am through one mutual fund or another), I would want them to maximize the value of my investment.

I wouldn't want them making a Franklin/Valeria film that nobody wants and I wouldn't want them just holding the rights until they revert for nothing.

Every year Fox hangs on to these rights, they pay for that privilege. If there's a realistic expectation Marvel will offer enough to justify holding on to them a little longer, okay. If Marvel has made it clear they're not interested, not negotiating and not willing to give a dime, I, as a shareholder, would rather Fox turn the rights over right now, today, rather than continue to throw money away on rights they'll hand over for free in a few more years.

If Marvel makes an FF film in 5 years that grosses 2 billion worldwide, I, as a Fox shareholder, don't give a sh**. That doesn't take money out of my pocket. Fox paying for rights they won't use is taking money out of my pocket.

 

[Zarex]

Have you spoken to the stockholders? Do you know how they think or feel? If they sold it to Disney and Disney made a movie that became profitable, you think they'd be OK with that? They'd be like, "Why didn't we do this? We had it and we gave it away?"

As 21st Century Fox America Inc. Class A stock is a key holding in one of my Vanguard retirement funds, I am authorized to speak as an expert on behalf of all of my fellow Fox owners. Our collective opinion is that it is in the best interest of myself, along with my fellow aspiring retirees, that 21st Century Fox America Inc. engage in economic activity that makes money (i.e. cash, greenbacks, moola) and not lose money.

Would we feel "bad" if 21st Century Fox America sold off a franchise that hasn't earned the company a dime in a dozen years for either another asset that has value or cash that can be sent back to us in the form of dividends? Are you kidding me? We aren't complete idiots. We remember Dear Rupert trashing the franchise less than 2 years ago and watching our 3 bedroom condo in Cabo downsized to a used Winnebago as the stock tumbled. You think we want to go through that ride again in order to take a chance on a franchise with which 21st Century Fox has had zero success? You may as well put another Independence Day or Assassins Creed film into production and completely deplete our nest egg.

You are thinking of this situation only from your own view of "Fox has no other choice but to sell the rights back to Disney so I can get the Fantastic Four movie I always wanted."

Not at all. What I am thinking is that the leadership of FOX and Disney are rational actors that are going to make financial decisions that are in the best interests of their shareholders (Me!) and not make sure-fire money losing decisions out of spite. Again, if you can come up with a scenario by which Fox puts another FF film into production without losing tens of millions of dollars more, I would just love to hear it.

 

[Val_Zod]

If Fox announces any future plans of the Fantastic Four at Hall H, I think them getting booed off is a real possibility.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If Fox announces any future plans of the Fantastic Four at Hall H, I think them getting booed off is a real possibility.

If we get any serious rumors that indicate they might make an announcement, I'd consider buying a plane ticket just to participate in the booing.t:

 

[NealKenneth]

As 21st Century Fox America Inc. Class A stock is a key holding in one of my Vanguard retirement funds, I am authorized to speak as an expert on behalf of all of my fellow Fox owners. Our collective opinion is that it is in the best interest of myself, along with my fellow aspiring retirees, that 21st Century Fox America Inc. engage in economic activity that makes money (i.e. cash, greenbacks, moola) and not lose money.

Moments like these are what make the slog of fan forums worth it. :')

If Fox announces any future plans of the Fantastic Four at Hall H, I think them getting booed off is a real possibility.

I agree. People really don't seem to understand just how deep Fox has dug the hole at this point. They aren't stupid...if they have zero support from the fanbase, they know there's no way they will get money from the general audience.

 

[Spiderine]

I bet FOX would LOVE to have the Taskmaster appear in a Deadpool movie. And we know Marvel has the rights to him. I just don't know if Marvel feels they need to work out a deal that bad with FOX. Disney would have to believe FOX was serious about making another film.

HELL.......I don't even believe this nonsense that they will. I would imagine the FF would have to be featured heavily in the next film to qualify as a rights keeper. No film about Doom would probably substitute.

Other than that........rebooting this franchise again within a few more years? I just don't see it. I think Disney calls their bluff.

 

[Docker2.0]

Have you spoken to the stockholders? Do you know how they think or feel? If they sold it to Disney and Disney made a movie that became profitable, you think they'd be OK with that? They'd be like, "Why didn't we do this? We had it and we gave it away?"

You are thinking of this situation only from your own view of "Fox has no other choice but to sell the rights back to Disney so I can get the Fantastic Four movie I always wanted."

THE MAIN stockholder of Fox has spoken out about F4 and even singled the movie out as to why they had a bad fiscal year. Doesn't get more vocal than that. I really think this is just smoke and mirrors by Fox and we should wait and see how Spiderman does before Fox makes an official decision.
http://www.cbr.com/rupert-murdoch-blames-fantastic-four-flop-for-foxs-poor-fiscal-showing/

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Because the fact is Marvel/Disney can make money off of it in the future. Studios and stockholders don't look at it like us. They don't think they can't make money off of it again. They think they can again at some point down the line.

How can they make money off of it?

Their first FF movie franchise flamed out after two movies. Their reboot was a dumpster fire that flopped hard and put the director in movie jail, and was singled out by Rupert Murdock as a major loss financially for the company. Its become a money drain for FOX at this point.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

You are thinking of this situation only from your own view of "Fox has no other choice but to sell the rights back to Disney so I can get the Fantastic Four movie I always wanted."

.................So can anybody besides this guy tell me how 4stic losing $80M+, a drop in stock, a 9% RT rating and its Director having meltdown are us thinking from our own view?

Would that "view" he's referring to be the same as using common sense?

Meanwhile the MCU is proving why Spider-man should come home and stay home and as a result this and its sequel will be the only Sony films that I'll be supporting in the foreseeable future.

Fox on the other hand have ZERO!

 

[TheVileOne]

.................So can anybody besides this guy tell me how 4stic losing $80M+, a drop in stock, a 9% RT rating and its Director having meltdown are us thinking from our own view?

Would that "view" he's referring to be the same as using common sense?

Meanwhile the MCU is proving why Spider-man should come home and stay home and as a result this and its sequel will be the only Sony films that I'll be supporting in the foreseeable future.

Fox on the other hand have ZERO!

Except, Sony still isn't letting go of Spider-Man. This deal enabled Sony to maintain control of all the Spider-Man film rights even though they are letting MCU get involved.

It doesn't matter if Fox has zero films you will support. People are still going to see their films. Logan just did very well this year. Deadpool did very well last year.

It doesn't matter if Fantastic Four flopped. That doesn't mean Fox is done with Fantastic Four and will roll over to let another big company get ahold of rights they currently control so they can make money off of them in the future. That's not how big corporations work in this day and age.

Once again, no matter what Spider-Man Homecoming proves, Sony still didn't return the film rights to Marvel. They still on paper control everything.

 

[TheVileOne]

THE MAIN stockholder of Fox has spoken out about F4 and even singled the movie out as to why they had a bad fiscal year. Doesn't get more vocal than that. I really think this is just smoke and mirrors by Fox and we should wait and see how Spiderman does before Fox makes an official decision.
http://www.cbr.com/rupert-murdoch-blames-fantastic-four-flop-for-foxs-poor-fiscal-showing/

That doesn't mean Fox is OK with selling off the rights to the property so another financial competitor has them and potentially makes money off of them.

All of you are so angry but you are angry because you want the rights to go back to Marvel/Disney. You believe Marvel can still make everything all right again and make the Fantastic Four movie you want. That right there is proof that people believe these movies can be profitable again. It's simply that Marvel fans believe it can't happen with 20th Century Fox.

Fox and its corporate partners aren't going to bow down to that belief.

 

[TheVileOne]

Has this stupid-ass idea been debunked yet?

No, but I wouldn't worry for now.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Spider Man Homecoming Spoiler

Spoiler

i have a feeling the Baxter building might have a place in the MCU since the Avengers tower has been abandoned...

From Heavy: "In addition, one pretty out there idea is that the tower was purchased by none other than Reed Richards, a.k.a. Mister Fantastic from the Fantastic Four comics. In the comics, Reed buys the Baxter Building, and this becomes the headquarters for the Fantastic Four. Marvel does not currently have the rights to the Fantastic Four; that’s owned by 20th Century Fox. However, just as Sony was willing to make a deal with Marvel Studios after two lackluster Amazing Spider-Man films, it would not be surprising if Fox makes a deal with Marvel Studios over the rights to the Fantastic Four after their failed 2015 Fantastic Four reboot, which only made $56 million at the U.S. box office."

 

[universeman]

Spider Man Homecoming Spoiler

Spoiler

i have a feeling the Baxter building might have a place in the MCU since the Avengers tower has been abandoned

Spoiler

I think that's foreshadowing Oscorp.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

How can they make money off of it?

Their first FF movie franchise flamed out after two movies. Their reboot was a dumpster fire that flopped hard and put the director in movie jail, and was singled out by Rupert Murdock as a major loss financially for the company. Its become a money drain for FOX at this point.

Hahahaha. I don't know why, but I just pictured Hollywood as a giant Monopoly board, and Josh Trank is stuck in "movie jail" with no way of getting out.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That doesn't mean Fox is OK with selling off the rights to the property so another financial competitor has them and potentially makes money off of them.

All of you are so angry but you are angry because you want the rights to go back to Marvel/Disney. You believe Marvel can still make everything all right again and make the Fantastic Four movie you want. That right there is proof that people believe these movies can be profitable again. It's simply that Marvel fans believe it can't happen with 20th Century Fox.

Fox and its corporate partners aren't going to bow down to that belief.

I think we understand these characters and can view the situation much more clearly than the Fox managers. And what we realize is Fox will not be able to make a film the fans want before the rights expire and Marvel is perfectly capable of doing that.

But I highly doubt Fox has the clarity to see what we can all see. If Fox truly understood the property and what fans want and how to make a good FF film, why have they refused to do that?

I think Fox management is looking at this very simply. They made two films that they believe captured the essence of those stupid, goofy Fantastic Four characters. Those films did reasonably well, but audiences were losing interest by the second film so they paused.

Then the 'fixed' those stupid, goofy Fantastic Four characters to make a more 'serious' film and even that didn't work.

At this point, I'm betting Fox management feels that the Fantastic Four simply aren't good characters. They're dated relics of the past and nobody wants to see that crap.

While part of them may realize Marvel will be able to do something that will be profitable (they made a freakin' talking racoon and walking tree into a franchise after all), I doubt that they believe the property by itself is that intrinsically valuable. They should have the attitude: "If we can't do it, nobody can." If not, why are they even in this business?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

... and if Fox really does recognize that Marvel understands things they don't (and has the trust of the fans and can increase the value of the property by integrating them with the MCU), the answer is a Sony-type deal.

They just have to come up with one that Marvel is willing to sign-off on.

 

[Zarex]

If we remove the Marvel branding and the reversion clock there is absolutely zero chance FOX would even be considering rebooting the franchise for a second time and putting another FF film into production. The high cost of the franchise and the declining BO results would kill any interest in taking another swing at the property. Especially not within 10 years of the last attempt that lost over $80 million dollars at the franchise.

So what does that tell you?

If Fant4sti2 ever makes it into theaters it will be another rights grab. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why fans are so upset.

 

[First Avenger]

I would like to be a fly on a wall in Fox's offices to hear what they think about Homecoming's box-office/audience reception come Monday.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would like to be a fly on a wall in Fox's offices to hear what they think about Homecoming's box-office/audience reception come Monday.

I think they're already realizing they need to either hop on the train or watch it continue without them.

I strongly suspect that's why we got the Franklin/Valeria rumor at the time we did.

 

[Karamazov]

Spoiler

I think that's foreshadowing Oscorp.

That´s what I thougth when I watched the movie

 

[NHawk19]

... and if Fox really does recognize that Marvel understands things they don't (and has the trust of the fans and can increase the value of the property by integrating them with the MCU), the answer is a Sony-type deal.

They just have to come up with one that Marvel is willing to sign-off on.

That really is their only option at this point. The other problem is that Fox doesn't have the same leverage that Sony did. Spider-man is the largest selling character Marvel owns. It's in Marvel corporate's best interest to ensure that he's always the best version of the character he can be.

The core characters in F4 may not be as useful Marvel as the ancillary ones. The ploy for Marvel may be to work with Fox to develop F4 adjacent to the MCU in a similar deal, but add in a return of some more prominent characters like Surfer perhaps.

Marvel really is holding a better hand on this one than they were with Sony.