The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

[jaymes_e06]

Do you think us Fantastic Four fans will ever feel as happy as the Spidey fans do right now?

As a Spidey fan I don't think with all the changes made by Marvel to that property in Homecoming is the way I'd like them to handle FF if by some miracle they get the rights back.

They honestly made just as many mistakes as Fox did with FFINO imo.

 

[Why]

As a Spidey fan I don't think with all the changes made by Marvel to that property in Homecoming is the way I'd like them to handle FF if by some miracle they get the rights back.

They honestly made just as many mistakes as Fox did with FFINO imo.

Not even Kevin Feige coming out right & promising they would not repeat the same mistakes here would be a guarantee as there is now no guarantee that not even MARVEL would do a proper Fantastic Four adaption

 

[souvlaki]

So FOX can be petty & not MARVEL ? That's not how it works

I don't believe I said that. Pulling the plug on a show that has marginally decent ratings but is critically acclaimed isn't really helping either party, it's just muddying the water even more and will likely result in the exact opposite of what you want to happen. If anything it will hurt the fans more than Fox. I can't imagine the tv deal is that lucrative for either party as is, but it's produced a great tv show. As is I don't think the tv rights is a big enough bargaining chip currently to cause Fox to run to the negotiating table. If your attitude is solely burn it all down because Fox won't hand over the rights to FF then I'm just going to agree to disagree because I don't have a black and white view of Fox and Marvel.

For the record though I do want to see Fox at least make a deal with Marvel if not hand over the rights completely for FF. I just think threatening to pull the tv deal is a stupid way to make that happen.

 

[Why]

For the record though I do want to see Fox at least make a deal with Marvel if not hand over the rights completely for FF. I just think threatening to pull the tv deal is a stupid way to make that happen.

Disney can always take them to court over the quality clause as FOX is not in the position they were in during the Mutant X lawsuit & I'd imagine Disney would win this one easily & can afford any delay tactics FOX might try

 

[TheVileOne]

And 4stic and Fox-Pocalypse were both failures. Whether you ignore it or not. Moving on now......



And that's how I see it. Fox would rather kill the F4 franchise before giving it back to a studio that could do it justice. Kevin Feige hinted at studios acting this way like 5 years ago when asked about getting the rights back of all the missing franchises.

Thing is that no one suspected Marvel Studios track record to be as good as it is currently or the grown awareness of which studio is in control of what. So Fox still being d!cks about the F4 franchise is only hurting them.

It's the difference between me supporting a Spider-man film that's still technically Sony's and me boycotting Fox's "Apes pt3" next week despite enjoying the last 2. Hell if Fox can be this way about the F4 rights then I won't film much guilt in "Firesticking" the few film they make that are good.

X-Men Apocalypse still got over half a billion dollars worldwide. None of what you think means Fox is going to lose the rights anytime soon, especially for X-Men.

 

[TheVileOne]

Exactly. You can't compare the FF to other franchises that studios have rebooted after unsuccessful entries because there has never been a successful FF film. The 2005 edition may have made a modest profit due to the low budget and the fact that Marvel allowed tie in merchandise. But it was a BO disappointment and the series has been in free fall ever since.

Rebooting a twice failed franchise with no BO successes has never happened in the history of moving pictures. Will FOX make history by doing something no studio has ever been sufficiently foolish to do? It seems unlikely, but so did FFINO.

Revisionist history.

 

[GeckoMoria]

As a Spidey fan I don't think with all the changes made by Marvel to that property in Homecoming is the way I'd like them to handle FF if by some miracle they get the rights back.

They honestly made just as many mistakes as Fox did with FFINO imo.

No. Absolutely no. You are 100% wrong.

 

[souvlaki]

Disney can always take them to court over the quality clause as FOX is not in the position they were in during the Mutant X lawsuit & I'd imagine Disney would win this one easily & can afford any delay tactics FOX might try

If the argument you are making is burn down every bridge in an already tense relationship potentially at the expense of some properties Fox is doing right and *gasp* maybe even better than Marvel could have done because they suck at making FF movies than I'm not really interested in arguing this. I want FF to be part of the MCU, but I also don't care if X-Men and Deadpool go back. I'm in the camp that thinks Fox doesn't screw up everything they have the rights to so it was probably naive of me to think I could have a reasonable discussion about this in a thread specifically devoted to reverting rights back to Marvel.

 

[regnak]

I do question if Fox trying to make an FF movie with the kids instead of Reed& Sue would be legal. If it is not a bluff I would expect Disney to sue if they actually try and make such a movie. Of course we don't what the contract says but this rumor smells real fishy. I think it is 95% likely a negotiating tactic.

 

[Why]

If the argument you are making is burn down every bridge in an already tense relationship potentially at the expense of some properties Fox is doing right and *gasp* maybe even better than Marvel could have done because they suck at making FF movies than I'm not really interested in arguing this. I want FF to be part of the MCU, but I also don't care if X-Men and Deadpool go back. I'm in the camp that thinks Fox doesn't screw up everything they have the rights to so it was probably naive of me to think I could have a reasonable discussion about this in a thread specifically devoted to reverting rights back to Marvel.

FOX is hit & miss with X-Men but the problems are very easy to spot there. They seem to only hire good competent people for their spin offs now while you get the likes of Simon Kinberg for the main movies ? That is an easy fix that FOX will never recognize though

 

[jaymes_e06]

No. Absolutely no. You are 100% wrong.

No I'm not because it's my opinion dude...

 

[souvlaki]

FOX is hit & miss with X-Men but the problems are very easy to spot there. They seem to only hire good competent people for their spin offs now while you get the likes of Simon Kinberg for the main movies ? That is an easy fix that FOX will never recognize though

I'd argue when Fox hits the mark they nail it though. Yeah, Simon Kinsberg sucks. I have no faith that Dark Phoenix will be good. Still doesn't negate the fact that Logan, X2, First Class, DOFP, Deadpool and Legion are up there with the best of the genre so I'm rather indifferent about the rights to X-Men because Fox has always been a rollercoaster ride in terms of quality with their X-Men properties. Yes, there is a lack of consistency that the MCU has but I'd argue Fox has higher highs than Marvel does. I also don't really see the need for the X-Men being in the MCU either though. Mutants coexisting in the same universe as other super powered beings like the Avengers and Fantastic Four never made sense to me. I'm perfectly fine with them existing in their own separate universe.

Back to the original point though, I get the impression you think the only way Marvel will get the rights to FF back is if they play dirty. Fox really doesn't care. They have every legal right to make FF and X-Men movies regardless of how crappy those movies happen to be. The only way Fox will relinquish those rights is if they think it is in their best interest financially. At this point I think the only way to do it and make all parties happy is either a deal similar to the one made with Sony or if Marvel offers something to Fox in exchange for the rights to FF. The only thing a lawsuit will accomplish is a further deterioration of Marvel's relationship with Fox and, if they go about it the way you are suggesting, the loss of the most interesting television property at either company.

 

[Zarex]

Revisionist history.

Care to support your answer?

 

[Why]

Back to the original point though, I get the impression you think the only way Marvel will get the rights to FF back is if they play dirty

It seems like thats what FOX wants though & Disney can afford playing dirty but can FOX ? At the very least Disney has a case for the Fantastic Four & thats what in discussion here & I did not bring up X-Men at all

 

[souvlaki]

It seems like thats what FOX wants though & Disney can afford playing dirty but can FOX ? At the very least Disney has a case for the Fantastic Four & thats what in discussion here & I did not bring up X-Men at all

How is pulling out of the tv agreement not X-Men related? The only tv show this would apply to is an X-Men related property. I think we both want the same end result but I obviously care a lot more about Legion than you do. Frankly though, outside of movies like Logan, TDK trilogy and a few other select comic book properties I tend to think Legion, DD and Jessica Jones are waaaay more interesting and engaging than any contemporary comic book movies so I am probably biased in that respect.

 

[Crimz]

Homecoming's success could either convince FOX that a deal is lucrative or convince them that selling the rights to Marvel would make them look like fools. It's all about whether money is enough to make them swallow their pride. Or Marvel could of already have given FOX an offer, but it was too paltry for them.

The most frustrating thing in all of this is that we don't have a clue if they are talking to each other about the FF rights. All we can do is wait, see and hope.

 

[Why]

How is pulling out of the tv agreement not X-Men related? The only tv show this would apply to is an X-Men related property. I think we both want the same end result but I obviously care a lot more about Legion than you do. Frankly though, outside of movies like Logan, TDK trilogy and a few other select comic book properties I tend to think Legion, DD and Jessica Jones are waaaay more interesting and engaging than any contemporary comic book movies so I am probably biased in that respect.

Pulling out of the TV Agreement could be considered revenge for when FOX sued for Mutant X & I wouldnt blame Disney if they looked at it that way what comes around goes around as they say

 

[TheVileOne]

Disney had nothing to do with the Mutant X lawsuit. That was before Disney had anything to do with Marvel.

Look, there's not going to be any pull out of that deal unless something drastic happens. They just made that deal post Fant4stic. And it's apparently beneficial for Disney on some level.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

As a Spidey fan I don't think with all the changes made by Marvel to that property in Homecoming is the way I'd like them to handle FF if by some miracle they get the rights back.

They honestly made just as many mistakes as Fox did with FFINO imo.

Sony certainly made a lot of mistakes - particularly in ASM2 and the third Raimi film, but they also had a lot of good moments over those 5 films - including scenes of Spidey swinging through NY that pretty much EXACTLY matched the images I saw in my mind when I was a kid reading Spidey comics.

And that's why I think FF is much easier than Spidey. Over the five Spidey films, we've at least had moments that were very good, so the trick is to make a character that we've already seen in five films feel fresh with relatively subtle alterations.

FF has been so completely off (and with only three films instead of five) that I think it will be a much easier task to make a new film that will be straight out of the comics and completely unrecognizable compared to the Fox films.

Heck all someone has to do is make an FF film that gets better than 37% on rotten tomatoes and they've got bragging rights to the best FF film ever made.

 

[souvlaki]

Pulling out of the TV Agreement could be considered revenge for when FOX sued for Mutant X & I wouldnt blame Disney if they looked at it that way what comes around goes around as they say

So just so I have this straight you want Marvel to pull the rug under Fox with their current tv agreement fully aware that the only effect it will likely have is the cancelation of a critically acclaimed show that is in no way related to FF simply because "Fox had it coming" more or less? Do you actually want Marvel to get back the rights to FF or do you care more about Marvel being the alpha male in this relationship?

The person above your post is correct, right now Marvel has the upper hand. They are coming off an extremely successful reboot after negotiating a deal with Sony that benefits both companies. Fox needs Marvel more than Marvel needs the FF. If Fox wants to blow it by releasing yet another terrible FF movie that is their right but the only way Fox is ever going to relinquish the rights to FF is if they come to some sort of agreement with Marvel and Disney. Marvel playing games with Fox will do nothing to achieve that. I'm not saying Fox's actions are justified in any way but it sounds like you care more about Marvel winning some kind of pointless "moral" victory than actually getting creative control back on Fantastic Four.

 

[Gabe99]

Spider-Man: Homecoming SPOILERS
Heavy Jul 7, 2017:

Spoiler

‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’: Who Bought the Avengers Tower?

 

[First Avenger]

^ Yeah that's not happening.

 

[Crimz]

Spider-Man: Homecoming SPOILERS
Heavy Jul 7, 2017:

Spoiler

‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’: Who Bought the Avengers Tower?

Spoiler

Highly likely it's Oscorp.

 

[Chris B]

Do you think us Fantastic Four fans will ever feel as happy as the Spidey fans do right now?

Yes. It may take longer than we want, but I think that'll happen someday.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

As a Spidey fan I don't think with all the changes made by Marvel to that property in Homecoming is the way I'd like them to handle FF if by some miracle they get the rights back.

They honestly made just as many mistakes as Fox did with FFINO imo.

....................................................


Yeah, so anyway I could argue that the film would've been even better if Sony had no say at all in this franchise. I still enjoyed it and I'll likely buy the Blu-ray on the strength of it's MCU ties but I'm not giving Sony any more money this year beyond that. Or next year either.