The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 18

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Time Warner merger could still fall apart if AT&T wins suit


Even if Judge Richard Leon next week allows AT&T’s $85 billion acquisition of Time Warner, the telco can still end up a loser.

President Trump’s Department of Justice, if it loses its suit to stop the mega-merger, could appeal and ask for a stay — a delay that could stop the merger from closing for four to six months while an appellate court ponders a decision, legal experts said.

And that could be enough to rock the merger off its foundation, sources said, as the merger agreement expires on June 21.

Judge Leon is expected to rule on June 12. Ruling against the merger would kill the deal, for sure — and cast a chill on the many others lining up to gain antitrust approval.


To be sure, while a DOJ appeal of an adverse ruling is nearly a sure thing, winning a stay is not a sure thing. In the last seven antitrust appeals in merger cases, the government has won significant enough stays to delay the underlying merger three times, or 43 percent of the time, according to a recent Bank of America analysis.

That includes in 2000, when emergency relief was granted to the Federal Trade Commission in its suit to stop HJ Heinz from buying Beech-Nut, according to the BofA analysis.

Six of those seven were FTC cases — and not DOJ cases like the AT&T fight — and the standard for getting a delay in a DOJ case is higher.

Whether Trump’s regulators could get a stay pending appeal in the AT&T case is a matter of some debate, sources familiar with the case tell The Post.

If the DOJ loses the AT&T case but wins a stay on appeal, there is a 50-50 chance the deal could fall apart before the appellate argument is even heard, according to the analysis, prepared for its hedge fund clients and reviewed by The Post.

Of course, Time Warner may just threaten to walk in hopes of winning a higher price from AT&T, one source close to the situation maintained.

The telco should have to pay more because the deal, going on two years, is taking so much time to clear — and Time Warner could attract more from other potential suitors, the source said.
Correct, if AT&T wins, and the DOJ appeals and gets a stay, then the 6/21 date gets passed. At that point AT&T cannot penalize TWX should they decide to just walk away.

In that scenario however, doesn't guarantee that Comcast will or won't bid for Fox. Though they could also bid for pieces of TWX as they do also have a footprint internationally. Not as big as Fox's, but still worthy of acquisition.
 
Comcast could conceivably make a Fantastic Four movie with Namor as well and also Thing vs Hulk.

I believe Universal only holds distribution, not production rights to Namor and the big green guy. They couldn't put them into an FF film even if the licensing agreement allowed them to merge franchises.
 
Correct, if AT&T wins, and the DOJ appeals and gets a stay, then the 6/21 date gets passed. At that point AT&T cannot penalize TWX should they decide to just walk away.

In that scenario however, doesn't guarantee that Comcast will or won't bid for Fox. Though they could also bid for pieces of TWX as they do also have a footprint internationally. Not as big as Fox's, but still worthy of acquisition.

Let's say the July 10th vote goes against the Disney-Old Fox merger. I would assume at that point Disney would be entitled to their $1.52 breakup fee, which could (hopefully) be transformed via negotiation into Marvel and Star Wars rights.

At that point couldn't Iger launch a new bid, or restructure the deal to include just the pieces he wants? He could decide to just put in a bid for the RSNs (or Star, Sky or Hulu) or bid up the price for all the spin-off assets to add to Roberts debt load. Even if the merger vote goes south I have confidence in Iger to get something out of the deal.
 
Correct, if AT&T wins, and the DOJ appeals and gets a stay, then the 6/21 date gets passed. At that point AT&T cannot penalize TWX should they decide to just walk away.

In that scenario however, doesn't guarantee that Comcast will or won't bid for Fox. Though they could also bid for pieces of TWX as they do also have a footprint internationally. Not as big as Fox's, but still worthy of acquisition.
Of course, Comcast will definitely bid again for the Fox assets once the AT&T merger is approved but given all the trouble AT&T/Time Warner have gone through to reach approval then only still to be faced with quandaries even after they got the okay might make a lot shareholders wary about going with Kabletown seeing as a potential merger with them would be a lot like the AT&T/Time Warner merger which has so much pushback from the DOJ(hence my mention of DOJ raising an issue with a Comcast merger with Fox).

Man, just think about all sorts of regulatory hurdles that could arise with a Comcast deal similar to the Time Warner merger; add that to the tax implications then Comcast is really on shaky ground IMO. It’ll be interesting once Comcast bids again after the AT&T deal is approved to see what happens. A bidding war will likely commence(unless Iger gives up Sky, which I don’t see happening) but I still think the Mouse has a lot things in its favor. A Comcast/Fox merger has more potential of falling apart than a Disney/Fox merger does.
 
The AT&T/Time Warner deal could still fall apart even if Judge approves.



We know DOJ has also raised concerns about a potential Comcast Merger with Fox as well so even if Comcast re-bids for Fox assets it’s still going to be interesting to see the pushback.

Unless it’s a clean, “done deal”, I suspect Comcast won’t re-bid (and possibly can’t since their borrowed money is likely contingent on the AT&T deal being fully approved).

There are so many things that would have to happen in just the right way for Comcast to come out of this with the FF rights and the interest and ability to maintain those rights, that I’m not even nervous.
 
Let's say the July 10th vote goes against the Disney-Old Fox merger. I would assume at that point Disney would be entitled to their $1.52 breakup fee, which could (hopefully) be transformed via negotiation into Marvel and Star Wars rights.

At that point couldn't Iger launch a new bid, or restructure the deal to include just the pieces he wants? He could decide to just put in a bid for the RSNs (or Star, Sky or Hulu) or bid up the price for all the spin-off assets to add to Roberts debt load. Even if the merger vote goes south I have confidence in Iger to get something out of the deal.
Dollar and I pondered about the possible breakup. In that, if it comes to that, Disney could offer to restructure any breakup and accept certain assets in lieu of a massive cash payment. The RSN's do also raise another point. IIRC, Comcast already has its own via NBC so that does raise some regulatory concern. In any event, we'll have a clearer picture on any bids before the vote occurs.

Of course, Comcast will definitely bid again for the Fox assets once the AT&T merger is approved but given all the trouble AT&T/Time Warner have gone through to reach approval to then only still be faced with quandaries even after might make a lot shareholders rather wary going with Kabletown seeing as potential merger with them would be a lot like the AT&T/Time Warner merger which has so much pushback from the DOJ(hence my mention of DOJ raising an issue with a Comcast merger with Fox).

Man, just think about all sorts of regulatory hurdles that could arise with a Comcast deal similar to the Time Warner merger; add that to the tax implications then Comcast is really on shaky ground IMO. It’ll be interesting once Comcast bids again after the AT&T deal is approved to see what happens. A bidding war will likely commence(unless Iger gives up Sky, which I don’t see happening) but I still think the Mouse has a lot things in its favor.
Most of the value lies in TWX's assets being broken up. If things go south for AT&T, I highly doubt TWX will offer itself up to anyone as a unified organization, but rather will auction off its divisions separately. (Namely HBO, Turner, Warner Bros.). Along with the breakup comes a slightly easier regulatory process.
 
If Comcast got FOX, they could not use Hulk. Marvel Studios has the production rights. Universal has the distribution rights. Universal cannot MAKE a Hulk movie. They can only DISTRIBUTE it. Therefore no Thing vs Hulk. Namor possibly. We don't know his situation all that well.
 
Am I the only one who only just wants the FF to go back and would be perfectly content with Comcast having the X-Men?

While I don’t necessarily agree with the argument that having the X-Men be in a shared universe of superheroes would diminish the property’s message of prejudice and discrimination; I do worry that Marvel gaining access to them might possibly prompt them to stop giving lesser known properties time to shine. The FF is smaller and concertrated in terms of the characters so even if Marvel got access to them it wouldn’t preclude them from trying lesser known properties like The Eternals. With X-Men the property is almost a whole universe onto itself that you can spin countless franchises out of it which I think kind of fits better with another studio apart from Marvel to focus on them since I don’t think Marvel can do that as they already have access to thousands of other characters, and X-Men might take up some space IMO.

I know this sounds like sacrilege to most X-fans who want the Mutants back) but the X-verse is quite big enough to support its own universe independent from the MCU so I really don’t mind Fox/Comcast continuing to make X-Men flicks as long as the quality stays consistent(and they do a total reboot). It’s the Fantastic Four license I want Fox to lose since that needs the MCU IMO. The FF are a very important part of the Marvel Universe(they’re the ones who started it all). Without them we wouldn’t even have the MCU. It’s fitting that the property that essentially started the Marvel Universe as we know it returns home.

The X-Men...not so much. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be nice to have the Mutants back but they’re not really important to me as the First Family are. Not to mention that even in the comics they’ve always felt one of the most isolated from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

The FF and their lore, on the other hand, bring so much more to the Marvel Universe(Silver Surfer, Galactus, Kang and the Super-Skrulls would be perfect for the Cosmic side of the MCU for Phase 4) than the Mutants. Feel free to disagree with me but I guess I can confess to being biased since I’m primarily a Fantastic Four fan and not much into X-Men but that’s my stance on the matter. I would hope when the dust settles from all this Merger mess that the First Family’s film rights are with Marvel Studios regardless of who ends up purchasing Fox.
 
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Am I the only one who only just wants the FF to go back and would be perfectly content with Comcast having the X-Men?

Well, I wouldn't be PERFECTLY content after last December's announcement. But if FF character family reversion is all that Iger can pull off I would still put it in the "win" column.
 
From Bloomberg:
DOJ's Makan Delrahim Says Fox, Disney Deal `Might Be Doable'

Bloomberg: DOJ antitrust chief*Makan Delrahim*said at a conference today that he applauds Disney and Fox’s efforts to “surgically” carve off assets in a potential dea

“They had good advice and carved out surgically a transaction that might be doable. But again, who knows where that transaction leads,” Delrahim said at The Deal’s Corporate Governance 2018 conference in NYC
“We will see what the investigation shows. (Disney) didn’t propose to acquire Fox Sports 1 and 2. They didn’t acquire Fox Broadcasting and say, you know what, we will combine this with ABC and don’t worry about it we’ll have an arbitrator decide if prices for advertisers go up or competition for content creators goes down”: Delrahim
 
The AT&T/Time Warner deal could still fall apart even if Judge approves.

We know DOJ has also raised concerns about a potential Comcast Merger with Fox as well so even if Comcast re-bids for Fox assets it’s still going to be interesting to see the pushback.

Looking at this info, I'd say the AT&T/Time Warner merge is highly improbable. There's a lot of things that could go wrong that I just can't see it being successful.
 
Well, I wouldn't be PERFECTLY content after last December's announcement. But if FF character family reversion is all that Iger can pull off I would still put it in the "win" column.
Eh, fine.

Though I’ll never understand why some want Deadpool in the MCU. While the MCU is never light on humor it’s never raunchy and overbearing like Deadpool.

Like how would you integrate the Merc-With-The-Mouth who’s movies are even less serious than even the Guardians movies? Deadpool already feels like it’s in the MCU with its casual references to Hawkeye, Black Widow and The Winter Solider. Not to mention there was a Helicarrier in the original film.

Honestly I think Deadpool wouldn’t work as part of the Avengers. That character works better apart from everything, even the main X-Men movies. Deadpool’s fourth wall breaking would take me out if he appeared in something more serious like Avengers Infinity War. I can’t be the only one who thinks this, right? Which is why I could do without Wade Wilson paling around with Peter Parker and Reed Richards. He can stay in his little meta bubble and make all the on-the-nose Marvel and DC references he wants. I have no desire to see him interact with Captain America.
 
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I want the X-Men back at Marvel. I want to see the REAL X-Men; the X-Men I grew up reading in the comics. I would be pretty bummed if Marvel didn't get them back after so many Fox movies treating characters like Storm and Cyclops like ****.

And it's time for Disney to let Sky go imo
 
Can I add that if the X-Men did go to the MCU wouldn’t it be funny to see Deadpool interact with the MCU Wolverine who’s more comic book accurate?

Deadpool meets MCU Wolverine.

MCU Wolverine: Who the hell are you, bub?

Deadpool: YOU’RE NOT HUGH JACKMAN! Oh wait! You’re the short ugly Wolverine from the comics not the 6’2 pretty boy hunk from the old universe with the confusing timelines!

That would be a riot.
 
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That would be pretty awesome. I hope that if the X-Men do go to Marvel, they keep the Deadpool/X-Force universe intact. But I'm not sure.
 
Can I add that if the X-Men did go to the MCU wouldn’t it be funny to see Deadpool interact with the MCU Wolverine who’s more comic book accurate?

Deadpool meets MCU Wolverine.

MCU Wolverine: Who the hell are you, bub!?

Deadpool: YOU’RE NOT HUGH JACKMAN! Oh wait! You’re the short ugly Wolverine from the comics not the pretty boy hunk from the old universe that gets rebooted every other movie!

That would be a riot.
I need this :up: :funny:

I could see Deadpool randomely popping up in other MCU movies and being aware that he's censored by the PG-13 rating
 
More on that from Reuters:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-surgically-u-s-antitrust-chief-idUKKCN1J32IE
Disney, Fox carved out assets 'surgically' - U.S. antitrust chief

This is why I think the Shareholders will ultimately vote in favor of Disney even if comes to a bidding war. Yeah sure when Comcast inevitably bids for Fox’s assets after the AT&T/Time Warner merger is approved they might provide some compensation fees and premeniums to assuage some regulatory concerns but the elephant in the room will always be this. Not to mention Comcast/Fox still get a lot of the same pushback that they Time Warner/AT&T Merger has gotten. Of course, I could be super-wrong and for whatever reason the Fox board could still decide to go with Comcast and break off the deal with Disney thus we’re stuck with the same status quo in regards to the rights to the FF & and X-Men as we’ve always been but I’d like to think the Mouse still has something up its sleeve.

Ironically Comcast did put up a hostile bid(mostly stock) for Disney and failed in 2004 but who knows they could succeed this time with Fox. But man, I have a hard time imagining Iger is going to roll over and let Comcast get those Star Wars rights.
 
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Am I the only one who only just wants the FF to go back and would be perfectly content with Comcast having the X-Men?

While I don’t necessarily agree with the argument that having the X-Men be in a shared universe of superheroes would diminish the property’s message of prejudice and discrimination; I do worry that Marvel gaining access to them might possibly prompt them to stop giving lesser known properties time to shine. The FF is smaller and concertrated in terms of the characters so even if Marvel got access to them it wouldn’t preclude them from trying lesser known properties like The Eternals. With X-Men the property is almost a whole universe onto itself that you can spin countless franchises out of it which I think kind of fits better with another studio apart from Marvel to focus on them since I don’t think Marvel can do that as they already have access to thousands of other characters, and X-Men might take up some space IMO.

I know this sounds like sacrilege to most X-fans who want the Mutants back) but the X-verse is quite big enough to support its own universe independent from the MCU so I really don’t mind Fox/Comcast continuing to make X-Men flicks as long as the quality stays consistent(and they do a total reboot). It’s the Fantastic Four license I want Fox to lose since that needs the MCU IMO. The FF are a very important part of the Marvel Universe(they’re the ones who started all). Without them we wouldn’t even have the MCU. It’s fitting that the property that essentially started the Marvel Universe as we know it returns home.

The X-Men...not so much. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be nice to have the Mutants back but they’re not really important to me as the First Family are. Not to mention that even in the comics they’ve always felt one of the most isolated from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

The FF and their lore, on the other hand, bring so much more to the Marvel Universe(Silver Surfer, Galactus, Kang and the Super-Skrulls would be perfect for the Cosmic side of the MCU for Phase 4) than the Mutants. Feel free to disagree me but I guess I can confess to being biased since I’m primarily a Fantastic Four fan and not much into X-Men but that’s my stance on the matter. I would hope when the dust settles from all this Merger mess that the First Family’s film rights are with Marvel Studios regardless of who ends up purchasing Fox.

It's much more critical that Marvel gets FF, but I'd also really like to see an X-Men film done right and I don't know if Fox or Universal will ever really get it.

So if I had to make a 'Sophie's Choice' type decision, no doubt it would be FF, but I can't say I'd be perfectly content to see the X-Men kept away now that we've had a taste and a chance to imagine a complete MCU.
 
Am I the only one who only just wants the FF to go back and would be perfectly content with Comcast having the X-Men?

The Mutants do make a complete superhero universe. All the MCU really needs to keep going after Phase 4 are the villains in the Fantastic Four rights package. Doom alone could extend the Black Panther and Doctor Strange series one film each beyond where they'd otherwise run out of ideas. The Avengers could finally fight Kang. And actually releasing a profitable FF movie would open up the Galactus and then Secret Wars stories.
However I don't think it would ever work out that way. If Roberts makes an offer the FOX shareholders prefer, he walks away with all of 20th Century FOX and would put out cheapie FF films when needed, out of personal spite for Disney.
 
I used to be fine with the X-men remaining in Fox’s hands but then I realized I’m sick of Marvel movies coming from anywhere other than Marvel.

Marvel Studios is making the best Marvel movies, no doubt about it, and I want to see the X-men proper finally given the treatment they deserve. It’s nice when you occasionally get a Logan, but you also have to suffer through X-men Apocalypse and FFINO to get there and it just weakens the brand.

Everything we’re hearing about Dark Phoenix and New Mutants just confirms all the animosity I’ve felt for Fox; they have no real idea what they want, they just want what’s going to work in the moment instead of trusting the damn source material.

I pray that Disney ups the ante and ponies up some serious coin to outbid Comcast. It’s the best thing for th X-men and the FF.
 
Pretty much. Sony and fox have proved they don’t know what to do anymore.
 
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