The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[MasterCat]

By the way, what's the logical reason for Logan to wear yellow spandex? The only thing I can think of is that Marvel spandex is a science fiction material that's stretchy until kinetic energy impacts it, then stiffens as armor.

 

[Fincher]

Seriously? Neither of you are going to be able to watch a new different Wolverine without comparing to Jackman?

Sounds crazy to me, but that's your problem. Personally I can't wait to see a new thrashing, snarling Wolverine taking on real opponents.

It's possible for a new Wolverine to be good and enjoyable (I figured a reboot was inevitable before Disney and Comcast ever came into the picture), but it's only natural for a new Wolverine to be compared to Jackman's version, especially since Jackman's version ranks high among my favorite movie characters.

Making a new version I like more than his, since it was being discussed, is easier said than done, and the changes being suggested to do that are...less than convincing to me. And then on top of that he's presumably going to get less focus in the MCU than he did in Fox's franchise, and there are things that I liked or saw potential in that that they're likely to avoid. For example, his origin wasn't done well, so that would be one area they could improve in, but they more than likely won't go there since Fox already did.

 

[Iceman]

Hugh Jackman has been great. But Wolverine is a top character and there can be numerous positive iterations of him.

 

[MasterCat]

Making a new version I like more than his, since it was being discussed, is easier said than done, and the changes being suggested to do that are...less than convincing to me. And then on top of that he's presumably going to get less focus in the MCU than he did in Fox's franchise, and there are things that I liked or saw potential in that that they're likely to avoid. For example, his origin wasn't done well, so that would be one area they could improve in, but they more than likely won't go there since Fox already did.

Has Marvel Studios put out a statement about avoiding the origins of all characters used by other studios, or are people just extrapolating from the MCU taboo on the name "Uncle Ben"?

 

[Drexelhand]

By the way, what's the logical reason for Logan to wear yellow spandex? The only thing I can think of is that Marvel spandex is a science fiction material that's stretchy until kinetic energy impacts it, then stiffens as armor.

In the comics, it was his uniform for Alpha Flight and he used it in his battle against the Hulk because that was like a 'pilot expedition' to get James Hudson government funding. He was a spy before that point as Weapon X, but agreed to become the Wolverine for Alpha Flight. It just crossed over into X-Men.

 

[wobbly]

Has Marvel Studios put out a statement about avoiding the origins of all characters used by other studios, or are people just extrapolating from the MCU taboo on the name "Uncle Ben"?

They skimmed over the Hulk's origin too (all done with in the opening montage of TIH).

 

[fan4stic]

I've thought Weapon X can be the villains of an MCU X-Men sequel and they're basically put together as like the mutant Avengers, Wolverine being like Captain America.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

We've briefly discussed Peyton Reed's comments:


"Well, I have been known to mention Fantastic Four in conversations that may or may not have happened in the Marvel hallways. It's all a giant question mark at this point, because no one knows if this merger is going to happen. It was on, it was off, it was on... who knows. I guess I can dream, right? I can have the dream. We'll see. Time will tell!"


But I think it's interesting to consider them in the context of a different discussion we've been having. We've been saying that Marvel's ability to officially 'develop' an FF film is limited, but there are no limitations on Reed.

If he wants to outline various story possibilities, collect comic panels he'd like to include, collect various versions of costumes to decide what he prefers, create some rough scripts etc., nobody can stop him.

So if the deal goes through and ten minutes later Reed marches into Feige's office with an arm full of notebooks, Marvel could have some groundwork laid. And if other directors have ideas of their own and want to fight for the ability to tell the story they have in mind, Feige could have a lot to work with from day 1.

 

[Dark Raven]

We've briefly discussed Peyton Reed's comments:


"Well, I have been known to mention Fantastic Four in conversations that may or may not have happened in the Marvel hallways. It's all a giant question mark at this point, because no one knows if this merger is going to happen. It was on, it was off, it was on... who knows. I guess I can dream, right? I can have the dream. We'll see. Time will tell!"


But I think it's interesting to consider them in the context of a different discussion we've been having. We've been saying that Marvel's ability to officially 'develop' an FF film is limited, but there are no limitations on Reed.

If he wants to outline various story possibilities, collect comic panels he'd like to include, collect various versions of costumes to decide what he prefers, create some rough scripts etc., nobody can stop him.

So if the deal goes through and ten minutes later Reed marches into Feige's office with an arm full of notebooks, Marvel could have some groundwork laid. And if other directors have ideas of their own and want to fight for the ability to tell the story they have in mind, Feige could have a lot to work with from day 1.

Well, he has even developed a whole script already which he brought to Fox back in the day, but they rejected it. So he has something which is already workable. If it is his own passion project, he can also be developing a script on his own time. But even from his old script before 2005, Feige probably has quite a bit to work with.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well, he has even developed a whole script already which he brought to Fox back in the day, but they rejected it. So he has something which is already workable. If it is his own passion project, he can also be developing a script on his own time. But even from his old script before 2005, Feige probably has quite a bit to work with.

Interesting point, because my first thought was: "Who owns that script?" thinking that since it was commissioned, it would be owned by someone else and couldn't be used by Marvel even as a rough starting point (unless they bought it).

... but then I realized Fox probably owns the script, so in the hypothetical in which the deal closes, Disney would own it.

And that raises another thought - over the past 20 years, Fox has probably commissioned numerous scripts. There could be 20-50 scripts of various treatments of varying quality on file by the time Disney takes possession.

Most of those would probably be unusable, but there could be something in there that would provide something that could serve as a solid starting point and be re-worked.

I'm a big believer that it's a lot easier to fix something that already exists than it is to create something from nothing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Interesting point, because my first thought was: "Who owns that script?" thinking that since it was commissioned, it would be owned by someone else and couldn't be used by Marvel even as a rough starting point (unless they bought it).

... but then I realized Fox probably owns the script, so in the hypothetical in which the deal closes, Disney would own it.

And that raises another thought - over the past 20 years, Fox has probably commissioned numerous scripts. There could be 20-50 scripts of various treatments of varying quality on file by the time Disney takes possession.

Most of those would probably be unusable, but there could be something in there that would provide something that could serve as a solid starting point and be re-worked.

I'm a big believer that it's a lot easier to fix something that already exists than it is to create something from nothing.

Fox does own that script, that is correct. It was commissioned as a work for hire by the studio, so the screenplay is theirs. Disney would inherit it once the deal closes.

 

[Zarex]

It's been confirmed that Disney cannot commission a FF script. But it appears that there's nothing preventing Feige and company from having super casual conversations with Reed regarding a script that already exists and is sitting on a floppy disc in a box at his home office.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's been confirmed that Disney cannot commission a FF script. But it appears that there's nothing preventing Feige and company from having super casual conversations with Reed regarding a script that already exists and is sitting on a floppy disc in a box at his home office.

I told ya'll they couldn't commission a FF script

But most definitely, Reed can present Kevin his ideas for a FF film casually, and if he has a copy of the script at home (which he very well might), he can no doubt sneak that script to him on the sly, LOL!

 

[Zarex]

I told ya'll they couldn't commission a FF script

I didn't get confirmation on this from an outside source. I am treating your post as the Voice of God on this topic.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I didn't get confirmation on this from an outside source. I am treating your post as the Voice of God on this topic.

I was gone for 3 days so I wasn't sure if something new got stated, LOL! But yeah if Reed got a private handshake agreement to develop a FF movie by Feige pending the deal closing, once Disney inherits the script from FOX, they could use it as a basis and then modify it to fit the MCU. That would very much be in the cards.

 

[Dark Raven]

Although Disney can't commission a script, doesn't a regular comic have a script of some sort to work from? They don't just start drawing the panels and writing in dialogue and hope to have a story.

So can't Marvel write a comic script and then that would serve as the basic outline, and they can expand upon it later on. Sometimes they need the general story there to see if it works rather than getting bogged down with too many details which can easily be filled in later on.

And Peyton Reed could write an autobiographical script about his own fantastic adventures. It could be about himself as the main character, obviously named Reed (because that's his surname, duh!), and 3 of his pals. That wouldn't have to be seen as a FF script at all!

 

[Spider-Fan]

Although Disney can't commission a script, doesn't a regular comic have a script of some sort to work from? They don't just start drawing the panels and writing in dialogue and hope to have a story.

So can't Marvel write a comic script and then that would serve as the basic outline, and they can expand upon it later on. Sometimes they need the general story there to see if it works rather than getting bogged down with too many details which can easily be filled in later on.

And Peyton Reed could write an autobiographical script about his own fantastic adventures. It could be about himself as the main character, obviously named Reed (because that's his surname!), and 3 of his pals. That wouldn't have to be seen as a FF script at all!

This is a lot of mental gymnastics. It's just easier honestly to wait until you have the rights secured and develop the movie from there. If Reed's script from before the Tim Story movie is a take Feige likes and if the script is close enough to MCU quality and would just need touch ups, its just easier to wait until you have the greenlight to modify that script. Rather than try to find elaborate ways to get around the fact you don't have the rights to commission film work yet.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I told ya'll they couldn't commission a FF script

But most definitely, Reed can present Kevin his ideas for a FF film casually, and if he has a copy of the script at home (which he very well might), he can no doubt sneak that script to him on the sly, LOL!

And with the situation and films already in the pipeline, I think a rough plan is far more important than an actual script at this point.

How will the FF fit? Will the film be set in the present or the past? What will the MCU look like post Thanos, and how does that impact a potential FF film? What potential directors are interested and capable?

There are no legal restrictions against Feige having a few beers with Reed, Gunn, the Russos and/or others and BSing about the possibilities.

 

[Dark Raven]

This is a lot of mental gymnastics. It's just easier honestly to wait until you have the rights secured and develop the movie from there. If Reed's script from before the Tim Story movie is a take Feige likes and if the script is close enough to MCU quality and would just need touch ups, its just easier to wait until you have the greenlight to modify that script. Rather than try to find elaborate ways to get around the fact you don't have the rights to commission film work yet.

That's not a lot of mental gymnastics. If the script is about the adventures of a guy named Reed (ie Peyton Reed), then they don't need to modify that name at all. It still ends up as the adventures of Reed, just that now it's Reed Richards.

It's just like there was no mental gymnastics for Wong and Benedict Wong. Maybe a bit of general confusion, but everything still applied.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That's not a lot of mental gymnastics. If the script is about the adventures of a guy named Reed (ie Peyton Reed), then they don't need to modify that name at all. It still ends up as the adventures of Reed, just that now it's Reed Richards.

It's just like there was no mental gymnastics for Wong and Benedict Wong. Maybe a bit of general confusion, but everything still applied.

There is no reason to seek out loopholes like this, though. Marvel has a full plate of movies coming the next couple of years. They don't need to rush the FF out within 6 months or a year of getting the rights from FOX. Better to just wait it out and develop it properly.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

There is no reason to seek out loopholes like this, though. Marvel has a full plate of movies coming the next couple of years. They don't need to rush the FF out within 6 months or a year of getting the rights from FOX. Better to just wait it out and develop it properly.

Yeah, and since I think it's unrealistic to believe they'll have a film before 2022-2023, it's probably foolish to lock something in with a specific script.

There may be events they don't even anticipate yet (somebody might have an idea for something cool during Avengers 4 that they'll slip in that will change the landscape, but nobody knows about it at this moment).

It would only be helpful if they are really pressed for time and want to release something by 2020 or something, but I don't think that's going to happen under any circumstances.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

... though on the other hand, there could be something of a 'hole' around 2020.

If you consider we've been getting multiple Fox films every year and they suddenly disappear, we'll be seeing a lot fewer 'Marvel' films in 2020 and 2021 than we've been used to when we include the Fox efforts.

Though even in that case, they probably could fill in with other films they already have in the planning stages, but the sudden nonexistence of Fox could leave the schedule looking less full in the coming years than might be presumed in a world with Fox (or Fox/Comcast).

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But Comcast raises another issue. Let's say, hypothetically, Comcast buys Fox and wants to make Marvel films, but recognizes they will do better by partnering with Marvel.

Now we have a situation in which Comcast (to maintain the rights and also to maintain steady cash flow) might want to push Marvel to help them make a new FF film integrated with the MCU sooner rather than later.

 

[Spider-Fan]

... though on the other hand, there could be something of a 'hole' around 2020.

If you consider we've been getting multiple Fox films every year and they suddenly disappear, we'll be seeing a lot fewer 'Marvel' films in 2020 and 2021 than we've been used to when we include the Fox efforts.

Though even in that case, they probably could fill in with other films they already have in the planning stages, but the sudden nonexistence of Fox could leave the schedule looking less full in the coming years than might be presumed in a world with Fox (or Fox/Comcast).

That's not a bad thing per se. Marvel realistically is not making 6 films a year even with FOX. They will maybe do 4 at most. But Marvel can control what those films will be pretty much outside of Sony. Either way, 2020 and 2021 will see likely 3 MCU films each year. If there is no Fox films at that point, that is okay.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That's not a bad thing per se. Marvel realistically is not making 6 films a year even with FOX. They will maybe do 4 at most. But Marvel can control what those films will be pretty much outside of Sony. Either way, 2020 and 2021 will see likely 3 MCU films each year. If there is no Fox films at that point, that is okay.

But consider (and this isn't a good thing, but a reality) Disney management and the dollar signs in their eyes. An extra Marvel film is potentially hundreds of millions of dollars more on the bottom line.

Look at Star Wars and how they were pushing those out - and that actually relates directly because they recently announced they were putting the spin-offs on hold. Now they may have less revenue from Star Wars films, and looking at the golden goose of Marvel, they could put pressure on Marvel to step it up.

Oh, and by the way, Disney is going to have some debts to pay off in the coming years.