The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

[Shinobi Shaw]

I suspect Feige has been frustrated for a quite a while with the huge gaping holes in his MCU.

Without Doom and Galactus and Reed Richards, the MCU isn't the Marvel universe.

Doom is the best, most important villain in the Marvel universe, Galactus is the most powerful 'villain' in the Marvel universe, and Reed Richards is the smartest character in the Marvel universe.

I feel like those three characters, more than all the other characters involved are vital because they define the extremes.

Agreed.

But above all else, you can't also have a whole Marvel Cinematic Universe without mutants.

It's sorta poetic too, Feige came in the game as just a PA watching FOX cannibalize his favorite X-Men, and now pretty soon as a studio president he can showcase these characters the way they were meant to be.

Guy is probably doing backflips like Beast.

 

[Protar]

In a weird way it was sort of a good thing Marvel didn't have access to all their A-list characters like FF, Spider-Man, X-Men because it forced them to work harder which unlike DC/Warner which has access to everything and anything DC but they're much less successful(never did in a million years did I expect a Guardians Of The Galaxy film to out-gross the first ever Justice League film). If Marvel had FF from the start would they even be able to pull it off well as they did with Guardians later on?

While I'm happy all the Marvel characters(well mostly) will be coming home(at last!) I will never say that I wish they were never sold off to other studios because I feel Feige wouldn't be good as his job as he is if he didn't work on those movies as an executive producer so he can learn what did and didn't work. Granted, I wish Fantastic Four would've come back to Marvel Studios much earlier after Rise Of The Silver came out that way we'd never had to have suffered through the abomination known FFINO but besides that I'm mostly pleased with how things ended up.

I agree it's been great for the longevity of the franchise. If Marvel had had all of their characters from the get-go, all of the big names would be nearing the end of their contracts and the future of the MCU post Infinity War would be very uncertain. Instead, we're periodically getting new big-name characters to keep things going.

 

[Dark Raven]

If we get Beast in the MCU, I want him to look like the Avengers version:

That will set him apart from all the other versions we've seen in the X-Men films. And it will be a classic look.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In a weird way it was sort of a good thing Marvel didn't have access to all their A-list characters like FF, Spider-Man, X-Men because it forced them to work harder which unlike DC/Warner which has access to everything and anything DC but they're much less successful(never did in a million years did I expect a Guardians Of The Galaxy film to out-gross the first ever Justice League film). If Marvel had FF from the start would they even be able to pull it off well as they did with Guardians later on?

While I'm happy all the Marvel characters(well mostly) will be coming home(at last!) I will never say that I wish they were never sold off to other studios because I feel Feige wouldn't be good as his job as he is if he didn't work on those movies as an executive producer so he can learn what did and didn't work. Granted, I wish Fantastic Four would've come back to Marvel Studios much earlier after Rise Of The Silver came out that way we'd never had to have suffered through the abomination known FFINO but besides that I'm mostly pleased with how things ended up.

Good points. I think in a way it's similar to the difficulty Stephen Spielberg had with the mechanical shark on Jaws that forced him to work harder to make it work without much shark.

And not only did the situation force them to build from the ground up, but they've got a really great situation now from the point of view: "How do you top Thanos?". Easy. You top Thanos with Doom and Galactus. If not for the eminent arrival of Doom and Galactus, the MCU would be in a bit of a pickle right now after they had already faced (and presumably they'll defeat) the biggest imaginable threat.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But above all else, you can't also have a whole Marvel Cinematic Universe without mutants.

I was thinking exactly this, but I wasn't quite sure how to tie it in with the specific characters I was discussing because it's a broader concept.

 

[Smurphftw]

Why did you say that name!!!

I remember shortly after the Fox/Disney deal was first officially announced and the whole "Constantin owns the FF rights" myth was finally put to bed, there was meme showing Senator Stern (Gary Shandling) whispering "Constantin" in Agent Sitwell's ear instead of "Hail Hydra"

Someone should bust that meme back out for old times sake

 

[Dark Raven]

Wasn't it DigificWriter who used to keep arguing that Constantin owned the rights?

It would be fun if he were here now to weigh in on the whole deal.

 

[Moridin]

I REALLY hope they do this, but I just don't think that's enough time.

... but on the other hand, I believe I just read yesterday that the new Joker film that was just announced will be released October next year.

But one thing that has made me curious has been the vagueness from Peyton Reed regarding an Ant-Man 3. Now in some ways, that could be expected. Ant-Man hasn't been a huge money-maker compared to other Marvel properties and even if they have a plan for an Ant-Man 3, they may choose not to discuss it.

But I'm also wondering if they're trying to keep Reed's powder dry for an FF film. If he could hit the ground running in the fall, there should be no problem having an FF film put together by Nov. 2021.

It has also seemed odd to me that, a few years ago, we had a nearly complete Marvel schedule stretching 5 years into the future and now we don't even know what's planned a couple years from now. Since this deal has been in the works for a long time, Feige may have been planning with the hope he would be able to get to work on some new films he has in mind and get them into the schedule and quickly into production after the deal closes.

And one final detail. I've noticed that in recent interviews, when asked, Feige has mentioned that they're focused on the five movies that are currently in the works (Those 5 being Ant-Man and Wasp, Captain Marvel, Avengers 4, Spider-Man Far From Home and GOTG3). But his focus on and emphasis of those 5 would seem to imply some flexibility on films that aren't in that set of 5.

So even if some other film is currently penciled in for November 2021, it is possible that they could nudge that aside for an FF film if this deal does close soon.

... but with all that said, I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm fine as long as something is coming in the next 7 years or so.

RE: the bolded, I think that's purely down to them not wanting to undercut the hype/importance of Avengers4. Keep the focus on A4 as much as possible, don't talk about films following it unless absolutely necessary*.

*"Necessary" being anything within the next 2 years as that is the basic window you need to make one of these films, so they need to get rolling on it and there's no way to keep it quiet. Black Widow getting a director, for instance, would indicate it's up for July 2020.

Personally, I hope they're shot of Reed entirely. He's mediocre. If F4 is to go to anyone already in the Marvel stable my vote goes to Waititi.

I don't think Feige would hesitate at all to move up Eternals or any other new MCU property for a F4 film. People need to realize that getting these properties back is a game-changer, even more so than Spider-Man was. Marvel has been shown in the past to have a very flexible schedule

Agreed.

 

[Fallen]

I don't think Feige would hesitate at all to move up Eternals or any other new MCU property for a F4 film. People need to realize that getting these properties back is a game-changer, even more so than Spider-Man was. Marvel has been shown in the past to have a very flexible schedule

I agree.

It would be crazy if Marvel Studios was able to have FOUR successful superhero team-up franchises: Guardians, Avengers, Fantastic Four and the X-Men.

Other studies:

 

[MasterCat]

So even if some other film is currently penciled in for November 2021, it is possible that they could nudge that aside for an FF film if this deal does close soon.

If Black Panther 2 is February 2021 and Marvel Studios has to produce a Spider-Man film for Sony to release every odd summer, The Eternals is what's penciled in. No question; it's the only new thing after Black Widow news has leaked of money being put into (hiring screenwriters).

 

[Smurphftw]

Wasn't it DigificWriter who used to keep arguing that Constantin owned the rights?

It would be fun if he were here now to weigh in on the whole deal.

There were a fair number of less than intelligent people pushing that narrative. JTheDreamer comes to mind. It didn't help that most of the big YouTube channels bought into it as well, logic and common sense be damned. I'm still not sure if they were legitimately duped or if it was for the clicks.

I remember Willie writing a PowerPoint presentation worthy rebuttal of the Constantin myth, and still people were buying it *smh*

 

[Dark Raven]

If only they were all here to tell us why the Disney Fox deal isn't happening.

 

[Detective Conan]

Personally, I hope they're shot of Reed entirely. He's mediocre. If F4 is to go to anyone already in the Marvel stable my vote goes to Waititi.

Eh, Waititi is a bit too comedic for FF for my taste. Sure, he’s a much superior director than Reed but I have a feeling he’d make the FF too comedic for my taste. I’d like FF to be more serious(sort of in the vein of The Avengers movies). Ideally it’d be best if they get a great up-and-coming director who only did one really cool indie movie like Jon Watts or Ryan Coogler(though he has more movies under his belt) before jumping on a big Marvel project.

Back in the day, in 2009, when Fox first announced they were going to reboot Fantastic Four(interestingly this was also the same year Disney bought Marvel) if you’d ask me who would I like to direct the FF reboot the first name that would come to mind would probably be either Steven Spielberg or James Cameron. But now Marvel has proven you don’t need the big name directors to make the best films— look no further than the Russo’s who were mostly novices who’d only done television comedies. Who’d of thought they would go on to direct something as well-regarded as Winter Solider? Never mind them directing the biggest superhero film ever. Heck Tim Story back in 2004 when he was hired for Fantastic Four was more established and well known than the Russo brothers were back in 2012 when they were first hired to do Winter Soldier! But look who’s clearly the more successful out of the two.

Now I eagerly await to know the filmmaker that Marvel will pick to helm the inevitable MCU Fantastic Four film since I know it will likely be someone I don’t know, and that’s exciting because it makes you wonder “What does Marvel see in them that I don’t?” Then the final film will more than answer that question.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

They should give Brad Bird a crack at the Fantastic 4.

The Incredibles is pretty much the same formula and he just recently proved he can do the action bit too with Mission Impossible.

 

[Detective Conan]

I’m going to be a contrarian and say I don’t want Brad Bird on FF because I feel it would be too obvious and rather redundant. Yes, he directed a FF-like film that is often touted as the best Fantastic Four film but I’d rather see a different person who can put a different spin on it.

I have a feeling he’d feel the same if Marvel offered him to helm it. “Why do a live-action verison of something I already did in animation?” would likely be his first thought and he would decline to do it.

 

[MasterCat]

In five years time, the contracts of Cumberbatch, Boseman, Chris Pratt, Tom Holland etc. will be coming to an end, potentially (though hopefully not) some of the newer properties might not have done so well. That is the perfect time to bring out the big guns that are the X-men and F4, general audiences will be ready for a fresh take and that will give the MCU a by-then much-needed boost.

James Gunn has said he's done with this iteration of the Guardians of the Galaxy once vol 3 releases. Even if the actors have only fulfilled 5 out of 6 appearances, they're done. If the series continues, it'll start fresh with Stallone and a riff on the original '70s team or something like Adam Warlock and Dave Bautista returning with Moondragon and Phyla-Vell.

Assuming Boseman's role in A4 is legally a cameo, they can only drag out his 5-film contract to Avengers 5: Civil War -> BP -> Infinity War -> BP2 (2021) -> Avengers 5 ('22-23). This is why I suggest having Doctor Doom kill him in BP3, to counter his attempt to get $50-100 million for it.

Blueberry Coffeecake is likely to get his third solo film in the 2023 holiday season, and contractual team-ups will run out by Avengers 5. I believe this would be a fantastic first film for Doctor Doom, inspired by Triumph and Torment. So I think the best time for Fantastic 4 to inject fresh hype is in the Summer 2023 to Valentine's 2024 range.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Wasn't it DigificWriter who used to keep arguing that Constantin owned the rights?

It would be fun if he were here now to weigh in on the whole deal.

Oh boy did he ever

Too bad he’s banned. It would have been fun watching him perform all those mental gymnastics to try and tell us that it still won’t happen

 

[Smurphftw]

If only they were all here to tell us why the Disney Fox deal isn't happening.

t:

 

[Smurphftw]

Eh, Waititi is a bit too comedic for FF for me. Sure, he’s a much superior director than Reed but I have a feeling he’d make the FF too comedic for my taste. I’d like FF to be more serious sort of.

Although I found Thor: Ragnorak to be wildly entertaining, I kind of have to agree with you here. The guy couldn't do a serious moment if his life depended on it. If I were gonna tap a director already in the fold to do FF it would be Gunn. He's proven that he can do comedy, action and can be serious if the moment calls for it. He has done some incredibly emotionally impactful scenes in his Guardians movies.

 

[MasterCat]

So a "Phase 4" that lasts until the 2023 holidays would wrap up our first Guardians of the Galaxy and run out the contracts for Paul Rudd, Benedict and Chadwick.

Next launch after Black Widow: The Eternals? Nova?
X-Men (2022) with the young actors on 6-film contracts for a high school trilogy, a team-up, and the option to follow their characters to college.
Doctor Strange and Doom (2023 holidays)
Fantastic 4 is the last film before this? Unless they need that summer for both Avengers 5 and Spider-Man?
Black Panther 3 (Valentine's 2024) is about war with Latveria. Shuri becomes the Black Panther.
And go from there...

 

[Detective Conan]

Although I found Thor: Ragnorak to be wildly entertaining, I kind of have to agree with you here. The guy couldn't do a serious moment if his life depended on it. If I were gonna tap a director already in the fold to do FF it would be Gunn. He's proven that he can do comedy, action and can be serious if the moment calls for it. He has done some incredibly emotionally impactful scenes in his Guardians movies.

While Gunn wouldn’t exactly be my first choice he’s pretty much more fit for the property than than anybody else already in the fold at Marvel. Guardians movies are in a way kind of the closest Marvel has to a FF film since even though they are a band of misfits they are family which are themes very central to FF. Not to mention that Gunn is probably the best director in the MCU as far as visuals go since his Guardians movies are gorgeous & feature exploration into exotic and imaginative locations— all stuff that is absolutely missing in the previous FF films so far. I can see Gunn if he’s up to it; though I still prefer someone else.

Taika is a popular choice because he really hewed quite closely to that Kirby-Esque Sci-fi weirdness on the visual aesthetic of Ragnarok and while that’s integral to the FF I still argue the tone of FF should be a mix of humor and seriousness not a flat-out comedy like Ragnarok was.

 

[Krystal]

So nobody reads the "paper" any more?

 

[MasterCat]

While Gunn wouldn’t exactly be my first choice he’s pretty much more fit for the property than than anybody else already in the fold at Marvel. Guardians movies are in a way kind of the closest Marvel has to a FF film since even though they are a band of misfits they are family which are themes very central to FF.

Ant-Man.

 

[Smurphftw]

Eh, Waititi is a bit too comedic for FF for my taste. Sure, he’s a much superior director than Reed but I have a feeling he’d make the FF too comedic for my taste. I’d like FF to be more serious(sort of in the vein of The Avengers movies). Ideally it’d be best if they get a great up-and-coming director who only did one really cool indie movie like Jon Watts or Ryan Coogler(though he has more movies under his belt) before jumping on a big Marvel project.

Hiring a guy who's done one cool indie flick might not necessarily be the way to go. See: Josh Trank as an example.

 

[Detective Conan]

Hiring a guy who's done one cool indie flick might not necessarily be the way to go. See: Josh Trank as an example.

Chronicle wasn’t really an indie picture, though. It was a mid-budget superhero film that did cost more than most Indie films. Something like ‘Cop Car’ directed by Jon Watts or Coogler’s ‘Fruitvale Station’ fits along those lines of what I consider an Indie film.