The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[Spider-Fan]

We're looking into the avatar thing.

 

[The Infernal]

We're looking into the avatar thing.

James Cameron after so many years being asked about the sequels.

 

[regnak]

James Cameron after so many years being asked about the sequels.

Well played.

 

[Dark Raven]

We're looking into the avatar thing.

It's not just him. Other people have that avatar too and it is stretching their ones as well in other threads.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

At this point, I think there's close to 0% chance it will be good, so it's really a choice of: "Run-of-the-mill Fantastic Four 2005 bad or spectacularly Fant4stic bad?"

If the concern is damage to the brand, I actually think spectacularly bad might be preferable. A spectacularly bad film will come and go very quickly and won't be seen as broadly. A run-of-the-mill bad film will be more credible and be seen by many people and serve as the legitimate follow-up to Age of Apocalypse and be accepted as part of the X-Men canon.

Bad probably would be better. But either way, Fox has done the Dark Phoenix storyline twice. So Marvel would have to lay off it for at least a decade.

Which now that I think about it, could be a blessing. Marvel can easily resist the temptation of "doing DP right" and will have to take the more logical route of setting up Jean as a character and giving her some time as Phoenix to endear the character to audiences before doing Dark Phoenix again.

i.e.....what Fox was too stupid to do.

There are upsides to those various deals Marvel struck back in the day. We probably got Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Dr Strange, GotG, and Ant-Man because Marvel couldn't do Spidey, X-men, and FF.

So Marvel already knows how NOT to do the DP story thanks to Fox.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I have zero problem with Marvel not doing Dark Phoenix. There is a lot more to the X-Men than that one story.

 

[Iceman]

You don't have to retell the same story at all. Jean is a well rounded character, not just a death vehicle. The comics repeat that story every so often, but we get years of regular material for the character in between and there is no burning need for the MCU Jean to be set up to die within 3 or 4 films. Build for the long term future, not just towards one story that's already been told twice in a short space of time.

 

[Dark Raven]

Jean Grey can get thrown off a bridge by the Green Goblin and snap her neck and Gwen Stacy can turn into Dark Phoenix. There are only 2 storylines in Marvel and this is the way to vary them.

 

[Darkprime]

Today Fox outlined some of its plans for "New Fox" post-Disney merger. Hopefully Disney give us some updates on Tuesday at the investor call.

https://deadline.com/2018/08/new-fo...rship-tca-dana-walden-gary-newman-1202438665/

.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Today Fox outlined some of its plans for "New Fox" post-Disney merger. Hopefully Disney give us some updates on Tuesday at the investor call.

https://deadline.com/2018/08/new-fo...rship-tca-dana-walden-gary-newman-1202438665/

.

New Fox would be a great vehicle for WWE Smack Down if they finally do away with the PG stuff. They could build that whole network around WWE, UFC and college sports alone.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Jean Grey can get thrown off a bridge by the Green Goblin and snap her neck and Gwen Stacy can turn into Dark Phoenix. There are only 2 storylines in Marvel and this is the way to vary them.

Always knew Gwen Stacy was a mutant.

 

[Xeno]

You don't have to retell the same story at all. Jean is a well rounded character, not just a death vehicle. The comics repeat that story every so often, but we get years of regular material for the character in between and there is no burning need for the MCU Jean to be set up to die within 3 or 4 films. Build for the long term future, not just towards one story that's already been told twice in a short space of time.

This.


The Dark Phoenix/Death of Jean Grey story is like Civil War/Death of Captain America for a lot of fans. Both have become the be-all, end-all tales for the characters and some fans can't see past that. People started rooting for Steve Rogers' death from the moment Marvel announced the first Cap movie as if his death was the sole reason for his existence. The same is sadly even more true of Jean.


Happily for the MCU, Feige and his team never saw Steve Rogers as a hero whose greatest destiny was to die in order to make way for another. I believe they'll take a longer-term view of Jean's place in the MCU, too. Many fans seem to forget, or maybe never knew, that Jean was bonded with the Phoenix for several years before it overwhelmed her. More importantly, she was a hero for years before encountering it. Rushing to that part of her story won't allow enough time for the audience to become invested in her as a person. How will we care what happens to Jean if we don't know her well enough to care about her?

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's not just him. Other people have that avatar too and it is stretching their ones as well in other threads.

We know

 

[Endeavor]

I think that now that Disney have bought Fox, they're going to issue something to this effect:

“The offensive directing and writing discovered in Simon Kinberg's Dark Phoenix are indefensible and inconsistent with our studio’s values, and we have severed our business relationship with him.”

LOL

YEs

 

[Spider-Fan]

This.


The Dark Phoenix/Death of Jean Grey story is like Civil War/Death of Captain America for a lot of fans. Both have become the be-all, end-all tales for the characters and some fans can't see past that. People started rooting for Steve Rogers' death from the moment Marvel announced the first Cap movie as if his death was the sole reason for his existence. The same is sadly even more true of Jean.


Happily for the MCU, Feige and his team never saw Steve Rogers as a hero whose greatest destiny was to die in order to make way for another. I believe they'll take a longer-term view of Jean's place in the MCU, too. Many fans seem to forget, or maybe never knew, that Jean was bonded with the Phoenix for several years before it overwhelmed her. More importantly, she was a hero for years before encountering it. Rushing to that part of her story won't allow enough time for the audience to become invested in her as a person. How will we care what happens to Jean if we don't know her well enough to care about her?

Agreed. Heck, fans have clamored for Cap to die in basically every movie since AoU, for some reason. Really hoping Cap continues to buck this trend in Avengers 4, LOL!

 

[MasterCat]

Really hoping Cap continues to buck this trend in Avengers 4, LOL!

You misspelled Bucky.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You misspelled Bucky.

Bucky Cap is garbage. It never worked right, and he was replaced not soon after he got the mantle. Only Captain America for me is Steve Rogers. When he is gone, I'd rather they retire the mantle. He IS Captain America.

 

[Tymminator]

Bucky Cap is garbage. It never worked right, and he was replaced not soon after he got the mantle. Only Captain America for me is Steve Rogers. When he is gone, I'd rather they retire the mantle. He IS Captain America.

Actually, Bucky was Cap from about 2008-2011 (when “killed” by Sin), so he was Cap for a decent amount.


BTW, your sig reminds me of a marvelous rant that Martin from Double Toasted went into in defence of Spider-man 3 and what in his opinion Spider-man 2 was not that great.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Bucky Cap is garbage. It never worked right, and he was replaced not soon after he got the mantle. Only Captain America for me is Steve Rogers. When he is gone, I'd rather they retire the mantle. He IS Captain America.

I agree.

 

[Darkprime]

Disney investor call tomorrow. Hopefully we get an updated timeline of the regulatory process.

 

[WeaponXCII]

Bucky Cap is garbage. It never worked right, and he was replaced not soon after he got the mantle. Only Captain America for me is Steve Rogers. When he is gone, I'd rather they retire the mantle. He IS Captain America.

I've never liked the idea of superheroes as mantles. Vito Corleone isn't a mantle. Dorothy Gale isn't a mantle. Han Solo isn't a mantle. Captain America is to me essentially as much a distinct character as Steve Rogers.

 

[Smurphftw]

Actually, Bucky was Cap from about 2008-2011 (when “killed” by Sin), so he was Cap for a decent amount.


BTW, your sig reminds me of a marvelous rant that Martin from Double Toasted went into in defence of Spider-man 3 and what in his opinion Spider-man 2 was not that great.

I think one of the big reasons why I never thought Spider-Man 3 was that bad, was because I never thought Spider-Man 2 was ever that good

 

[Dark Raven]

This.


The Dark Phoenix/Death of Jean Grey story is like Civil War/Death of Captain America for a lot of fans. Both have become the be-all, end-all tales for the characters and some fans can't see past that. People started rooting for Steve Rogers' death from the moment Marvel announced the first Cap movie as if his death was the sole reason for his existence. The same is sadly even more true of Jean.


Happily for the MCU, Feige and his team never saw Steve Rogers as a hero whose greatest destiny was to die in order to make way for another. I believe they'll take a longer-term view of Jean's place in the MCU, too. Many fans seem to forget, or maybe never knew, that Jean was bonded with the Phoenix for several years before it overwhelmed her. More importantly, she was a hero for years before encountering it. Rushing to that part of her story won't allow enough time for the audience to become invested in her as a person. How will we care what happens to Jean if we don't know her well enough to care about her?

That's what Talion (remember him) thought would happen with Spider-Man once Feige got him in the MCU. He was convinced that the only purpose of Peter Parker was to kill him off to make way way for Miles Morales to take his place.

And as he was so fond of saying, he didn't want that that to happen, but he was afraid it might.

 

[Marvel united]

I want to see Bucky become Cap after Steve because it makes perfect thematic sense imo. Have Bucky honor Steve; the man who sacrificed so much for him, by never letting the symbol of Captain America die

 

[Random490]

I always liked the idea of Cap Bucky in the comics and like the idea of Bucky Falcon and widow as a team, but I don't think it's necessary for the films. Maybe as a supporting character, but I think Marvel will benefit more by shifting the focus to new characters.