The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[2kt09]

I'll take the majority of the Netflix slate over Agent Carter any day, and that's season one. Even Iron Fist Season 1 looked Emmy Award Winning compared to the awful Season 2 of Agent Carter.

Daredevil is not only better than any other CBM show, it is also arguably better than even the best MCU feature films.

Still haven't gotten around to AC s2 or finished s3 of DD. The Marvel Netflix as a whole is verbose daytime soap opera.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Daredevil and the Marvel Netflix shows aside, I’m reaaally curious to see if they keep Legion on FX.

With that show being a mind screw it’s an easy way to prove that mutants existed in the MCU.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That does not mean Feige did not have faith in them as movies. He just had no plans for them at the time. Things can change, plans can be altered. Feige may have a vision for where these characters can fit in the MCU now. Especially with New Avengers on the horizon.

Disney doing actual MCU shows on Disney+ that are connected is a clear sigh the Netflix shows are not canon. I think it's time for people to accept the fact that the Netlfix shows exist in their own pocket universe.

Feige thinks years upon years ahead. If he had no plans for them then, it means they were not in their plans he kept saying he had up through like 2025. Aka, they were beyond a low priority for him. They were a no priority for him.

Feige almost traded Daredevil away to get Surfer and Galactus. Then he opted to allow him and the others to go to Netflix for a show. At what point are people going to realize he just isn't not a priority for the film division? He clearly had plans that don't now nor not the in the near future include Daredevil. That is what all evidence points to.

As for your point on proof of them bring non cannon, that's just bunk man. The fact they're note doing shows for movie characters means nothing in regards to creating separate continuities. It just means those characters are getting shows now. Until you see them formally rebooted, then they're in continuity. It is that simple. Anything else is just denial.

 

[Kuwolski]

I'll take the majority of the Netflix slate over Agent Carter any day, and that's season one. Even Iron Fist Season 1 looked Emmy Award Winning compared to the awful Season 2 of Agent Carter.

Daredevil is not only better than any other CBM show, it is also arguably better than even the best MCU feature films.

While DD is exceptional (along with JJ season 1), the rest of the Netflix shows are mediocre, even worse to some folks like myself, boring. I'm happy Netflix cancelled Cage and IF because both those characters were shells of what they should be. JJ season 2 was a bit of a misfire compared to season 1, but I respect Melissa Rosenberg as a showrunner and believe she'll deliver on S3, which will be her last, and probably JJ's as well.

This streaming service seems to be short of Loeb-led content at the moment, which is fine by me. And with Walden and in particular John Landgraf on board at Disney, the potential is there for greater things for the Marvel TV experience.

 

[Smurphftw]

Feige thinks years upon years ahead. If he had no plans for them then, it means they were not in their plans he kept saying he had up through like 2025. Aka, they were beyond a low priority for him. They were a no priority for him.

Feige almost traded Daredevil away to get Surfer and Galactus. Then he opted to allow him and the others to go to Netflix for a show. At what point are people going to realize he just isn't not a priority for the film division? He clearly had plans that don't now nor not the in the near future include Daredevil. That is what all evidence points to.

As for your point on proof of them bring non cannon, that's just bunk man. The fact they're note doing shows for movie characters means nothing in regards to creating separate continuities. It just means those characters are getting shows now. Until you see them formally rebooted, then they're in continuity. It is that simple. Anything else is just denial.

Honestly I think those who think the Marvel TV shows are actually part of the MCU are the ones in denial. Until I see an actual bona fide reference in the movies to one of the TV shows, then maybe this whole #ItsAllConnected garbage will stop being a sham.

It would have been incredibly easy for General Ross to bring up Inhumans from AoS, or all the vigilantes springing up in NY from the Netflix shows during that speech he had in Civil War. The fact the Feige and The Russos couldn't even be bothered to make even that little of an effort to connect the TV shows to the movies speaks volumes.

#ItsNotAllConnected

 

[Darkprime]

Honestly I think those who think the Marvel TV shows are actually part of the MCU are the ones in denial. Until I see an actual bona fide reference in the movies to one of the TV shows, then maybe this whole #ItsAllConnected garbage will stop being a sham.

It would have been incredibly easy for General Ross to bring up Inhumans from AoS, or all the vigilantes springing up in NY from the Netflix shows during that speech he had in Civil War. The fact the Feige and The Russos couldn't even be bothered to make even that little of an effort to connect the TV shows to the movies speaks volumes.

#ItsNotAllConnected

Pretty much sums it up really. I do think at one point they did plan for more synergy between the tv and movies. But this would have been prior to Feige and Perlmutters big break up in 2015. Here's an interesting comment from Feige about how Inhumans always planned to be introduced in agents of shield. Also notice how early on in agents of shield's run their were a lot more crossovers prior to the big Feige and Perlmutter break up. Like the Nick Fury cameo,Jamie Alexander showing up as Lady Sif etc. The age of ultron tie in with the sceptre. etc After the big marvel shake up these crossovers and tie-ins happened less and less.

"It was always the intention that introducing them to the public would be happening quickly, and it would happen in the show," Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige tells Badass Digest.

"There have been discussions between myself and Eric Buckley and Dan Carroll, who is the conduit between Jeph Loeb and the runners, in terms of them saying, ‘We’re thinking of doing this, this and this - does that gibe with what you’re doing in the movies?’ And in some cases, like with the Avengers movies, it’s very close. We have to say, ‘This is happening, so you have to do this.’

Now this quote comes from April 2015. The big Marvel shake up happened later that year in August/September. Rather telling isn't it? It makes you wonder what caused the big break up between Feige and Perlmutter. Was it related to Inhumans and beyond that the TV universe itself? There was something causing a rift between the two heads of each department.

Kevin Feige Talks Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Relationship To Inhumans Movie

 

[Abudefduf]

Lol, I forgot that Fury and Sif appeared on AoS at one point. It's been fun to see people go from saying stuff like "Of course #ItsAllConnected! Fury appeared on AoS!" to "Of course #ItsAllConnected! Someone vaguely mentioned the Accords in one episode of Luke Cage!"

I have to admit I actually think Iron Fist would’ve been a much better fit for the Marvel movies than on Netflix. It could’ve been Marvel’s first Martial-arts movie that would be essentially the superhero version of Enter The Dragon. What a missed opportunity.

Yeah. He's a pretty unique character, and not one that can be replaced easily.

 

[Dark Raven]

Lol, I forgot that Fury and Sif appeared on AoS at one point. It's been fun to see people go from saying stuff like "Of course #ItsAllConnected! Fury appeared on AoS!" to "Of course #ItsAllConnected! Someone vaguely mentioned the Accords in one episode of Luke Cage!"

Yeah. He's a pretty unique character, and not one that can be replaced easily.

I think the problem hasn't been that Fury has appeared in AoS. It's that no TV character has appeared in the movies. It's all one-way traffic. The TV shows are rather self contained.

Sif, of course, could appear in the TV show. Jaime Alexander is mostly a TV actress anyway, as is Cobie Smulders.

I still wish Morena Baccarin played Maria Hill instead of Cobie. She would've brought a more interesting quality to it.

 

[Kuwolski]

Do most fans even care that much? It was a cool idea in the beginning but at this point I think most people consider the worlds separate anyway and have moved on. A few years down the line when the TV characters are rebooted we might see something, assuming they are done at Marvel Studios or at least consulted with MS in a greater capacity.

 

[Abudefduf]

I think the problem hasn't been that Fury has appeared in AoS. It's that no TV character has appeared in the movies. It's all one-way traffic. The TV shows are rather self contained.

True but my point was that as time goes on, the connections between the TV/Netflix shows and the MCU are becoming more and more tenuous.

 

[Zarex]

Over the last few years the relationship between the Marvel Entertainment TV shows and the Marvel Studios movies have gone from "It's all connected!" to "It's not completely contradictory!" With the Netflix relationship petering out and Feige and company moving into streaming series I see the Loeb-verse going the way of the Singer-verse, with core characters rebooted into the MCU.

 

[Darkprime]

Anyone remember the rumor that punisher was going to show up in agents of shield season 4? I wonder why that didn't happen. You would think there would be some crossover at least between agents of shield and netflix. But even that seems like wishful thinking.

 

[Dark Raven]

The TV side is probably about as connected as Venom is to the MCU now. It's more of a Marvel adjunct universe.

 

[Darkprime]

At any rate Netflix seem to be taking their time with renewing Daredevil.

 

[Marvel united]

Over the last few years the relationship between the Marvel Entertainment TV shows and the Marvel Studios movies have gone from "It's all connected!" to "It's not completely contradictory!" With the Netflix relationship petering out and Feige and company moving into streaming series I see the Loeb-verse going the way of the Singer-verse, with core characters rebooted into the MCU.

Exactly. It's clear as day that the Netflix are going to be unofficially closed off from the wider MCU.

@Spider-Fan That's because Galactus and Surfer were more readily important to what Marvel wanted to do with the Cosmic side of the MCU. That doesn't mean Feige has no interest in Daredevil at all. Luke Cage and Iron Fist have a role to play in the future of the MCU once Marvel starts gearing up the New Avengers train. And what if Feige wants Daredevil as a Spider-Man substitute in case Sony pulls him out of the MCU? Once/if Daredevil is cancelled, the door for him to join the wider MCU will be wide open.

 

[Darkprime]

I do find it strange that Charlie Cox seems to have been contracted for movie appearances at one point but then we never heard anything of it again. If you pay attention to when that quote of his was said it was before the Feige/Perlmutter drama in late 2015.I really think Feige breaking free from Perlmutter was the straw that broke the camels back. I have to wonder what might have happened had the break up not happened. we probably still would have gotten inhumans and maybe Daredevil in Civil War and Infinity War. Could be one of the reasons why Perlmutter didn't want to pay so much for Downey in Civil War maybe his backup plan was Daredevil in Civil War instead because he knew Cox was already under contract so it would have been cheaper.

 

[Smurphftw]

Pretty much sums it up really. I do think at one point they did plan for more synergy between the tv and movies. But this would have been prior to Feige and Perlmutters big break up in 2015. Here's an interesting comment from Feige about how Inhumans always planned to be introduced in agents of shield. Also notice how early on in agents of shield's run their were a lot more crossovers prior to the big Feige and Perlmutter break up. Like the Nick Fury cameo,Jamie Alexander showing up as Lady Sif etc. The age of ultron tie in with the sceptre. etc After the big marvel shake up these crossovers and tie-ins happened less and less.



Now this quote comes from April 2015. The big Marvel shake up happened later that year in August/September. Rather telling isn't it? It makes you wonder what caused the big break up between Feige and Perlmutter. Was it related to Inhumans and beyond that the TV universe itself? There was something causing a rift between the two heads of each department.

Kevin Feige Talks Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Relationship To Inhumans Movie

I think you are probably right. There probably were plans to connect things more at some point, and they did seem to connect more strongly in the beginning, but the the Feige/Perlmutter break up seemed to really put an chill on those early promises. It's a shame really because I would love to see Charlie Cox as Daredevil in one of the movies, but at this point in think the chances of that actually happening are virtually nil.

 

[Shuri]

Because they're rebooting those series. (If they decide to do so.) The guy who played Iron Fist is definitely in need of a reboot right out of the MCU.

I agree, Mike Coulter too

 

[Iceman]

Exactly. It's clear as day that the Netflix are going to be unofficially closed off from the wider MCU.

@Spider-Fan That's because Galactus and Surfer were more readily important to what Marvel wanted to do with the Cosmic side of the MCU. That doesn't mean Feige has no interest in Daredevil at all. Luke Cage and Iron Fist have a role to play in the future of the MCU once Marvel starts gearing up the New Avengers train. And what if Feige wants Daredevil as a Spider-Man substitute in case Sony pulls him out of the MCU? Once/if Daredevil is cancelled, the door for him to join the wider MCU will be wide open.

Daredevil's great, but he ain't no Spider-man substitute son.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly I think those who think the Marvel TV shows are actually part of the MCU are the ones in denial. Until I see an actual bona fide reference in the movies to one of the TV shows, then maybe this whole #ItsAllConnected garbage will stop being a sham.

It would have been incredibly easy for General Ross to bring up Inhumans from AoS, or all the vigilantes springing up in NY from the Netflix shows during that speech he had in Civil War. The fact the Feige and The Russos couldn't even be bothered to make even that little of an effort to connect the TV shows to the movies speaks volumes.

#ItsNotAllConnected

I don't think it is an issue of denial so much as fans set-up a false expectation of how the crossover was going to work. That's not an issue inherent with the shows, it is an issue of fan expectation thinking we were going to get a million references to shows large numbers of the movie audience don't watch, and it was never going to work that way. We'll likely get some type of crossover at some point when the story calls for it, but to this point it never has. Remember, Charlie Cox has movies in his contract. So the intention when they signed him was to be open to that possibility that one day it may happen.

#It'sAllConnected

 

[Iceman]

I didn't know Cox had movies in his contract. Is it just him from the Netflix guys or anyone else?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Exactly. It's clear as day that the Netflix are going to be unofficially closed off from the wider MCU.

@Spider-Fan That's because Galactus and Surfer were more readily important to what Marvel wanted to do with the Cosmic side of the MCU. That doesn't mean Feige has no interest in Daredevil at all. Luke Cage and Iron Fist have a role to play in the future of the MCU once Marvel starts gearing up the New Avengers train. And what if Feige wants Daredevil as a Spider-Man substitute in case Sony pulls him out of the MCU? Once/if Daredevil is cancelled, the door for him to join the wider MCU will be wide open.

Did Kevin Feige tell you this? If not, then you're making a baseless claim based on how the comics did things, when it should be plain as day comics do not equal the movies. Otherwise, why didn't Peter Parker unmask himself in Civil War and fight over secret identities? Why wasn't the Maggus the bad guy in IW? Why won't Adam Warlock plan the defeat of Thanos? Etc. If Feige had this intention, there would be no Luke Cage or Iron Fist show. He would have had their MCU introductions planned out and he would have kept them on the bench. Especially if they were to have a big role later.

So in other words, you're setting yourself up for eventual disappointment.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I didn't know Cox had movies in his contract. Is it just him from the Netflix guys or anyone else?

I would imagine they do. But straight from an article with a quote from Cox:

Cox admits he would love the chance to star alongside the likes of Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man and Chris Evans as Captain America, especially as his Marvel contract includes the possibility of inclusion in future movie projects.

"When I signed the contract for the show, I signed multiple years for 'Daredevil' and, of course, (team-up series) 'The Defenders' - and in that package there was the opportunity to be involved in the movies," he confirmed at a Netflix event in Paris on Monday, according to DigitalSpy.com.

 

[Iceman]

I would imagine they do. But straight from an article with a quote from Cox:

Nice. It would be amazing if Marvel ever took up that option. If it's in the contract then they've at least thought about it enough to cover their bases.

 

[Lilbaz]

So Fox's head of tv Dana Walden is moving to Disney so could that in theory make Ike redundant? Or would Ike just report to Dana? The best scenario would be Ike becomes redundant and then Dana takes control of Marvel TV under Disney TV and have Dana report to Feige for all marvel related content.

Ike is one of disneys biggest shareholders and runs marvel he wont be answering to dana. Whether he keeps marvel tv might be a different matter though.