The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Dilly Dilly]

After years of FOX & add in the Spider-Man shenanigans its get it right or the fans like me can wait until we can see it at home (like I did with Homecoming)

 

[Zarex]

After 20 film's of staying mostly on point casting actors for the main roles who do fit the visuals of the comics it would a bit of a downer for me if Marvel changed that very successful tact with the Fantastic Four.

I would prefer that as well. HOWEVER....I think Ben's personality is more importance than his pigmentation, and if Marvel manages to land a charismatic big fella who can fill the role of the most beloved hero in the MCU I would be fine with "tweaking" the visuals. For example, Terry Crews advocated for the role, and though he is probably a bit old I think he would be an excellent fit for Mr. Grimm.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

After 20 film's of staying mostly on point casting actors for the main roles who do fit the visuals of the comics it would a bit of a downer for me if Marvel changed that very successful tact with the Fantastic Four.

I'm all for diversity, but so far Marvel has been achieving it by changing less well-known characters (like Nick Fury) and elevating women (Captain Marvel, Black Widow) and minority (Luke Cage, Black Panther) characters.

I'm not inherently averse to alternate takes and a different race actor if they fit the part, but I also don't think we should start the discussion by making arbitrary changes when there's no need for it.

The X-Men open up a whole new world of diverse characters that don't need to be changed. Just give more screen times to the ones who have historically been under-represented.

And give Wyatt Wingfoot a little bigger role. Native Americans have been very under-represented. And keep Ben Jewish (another under-represented minority).

If they did, for example, and all African American FF, we'd soon be getting to a point that a larger percent of the MCU would be African American than the actual United States population.

There's a point at which it just gets silly.

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't want the FF race changed on film because then they're likely to do that in all other media as well. I don't want the classic version to feel like it's not the proper official version anymore or for it to fade into obscurity like classic Nick Fury is even in danger of doing.

 

[Detective Conan]

If they race-change anyone it’d likely be one of the supporting cast(I’m looking at you Willie Lumpkin) or maybe the villains(except Doom, of course, he has to be played by a white guy).

Though I will add that after the controversy over the ancient one as well as the success at Black Panther might make Marvel consider doing some race-lifting with their key heroes. So you never know.

Though wouldn’t it be something that when’s all said and done the rights are all back at Marvel and they start casting the MCU versions of the formerly licensed Fox Marvel characters Marvel actually did do some race-bending with key characters that would cause a uproar?

Then the dream of having X-Men & Fantastic Four in the MCU becomes a reality but more in a “careful what you wish for” kind of way.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't want the FF race changed on film because then they're likely to do that in all other media as well. I don't want the classic version to feel like it's not the proper official version anymore or for it to fade into obscurity like classic Nick Fury is even in danger of doing.

There are a couple unique things with the FF.

First off, because of their recent relative obscurity and other factors, they have been relatively static. If you compare the X-Men from the 1960's to the X-Men of today, they're very different in a number of ways (and the X-Men are just one example, many other Marvel characters have changed and shifted over the years).

And also FF are very rooted in history. I saw something the other day on Twitter celebrating the first FF cartoon which started September 9, 1967 and was the first Marvel cartoon. And of course FF #1 was what started what we all know as the Marvel Universe.

So the FF, more than other Marvel characters, have a certain historical place and legacy within Marvel. Most discussions of the FF center around their place in history rather than how they were reinvented in the 90's etc. (which is probably partly why there has been a lot of talk about a "retro" FF).

They were the foundation on which the rest of the Marvel universe was built, so I think they, more than other properties have reason to stick to tradition.

 

[Dark Raven]

There are a couple unique things with the FF.

First off, because of their recent relative obscurity and other factors, they have been relatively static. If you compare the X-Men from the 1960's to the X-Men of today, they're very different in a number of ways (and the X-Men are just one example, many other Marvel characters have changed and shifted over the years).

And also FF are very rooted in history. I saw something the other day on Twitter celebrating the first FF cartoon which started September 9, 1967 and was the first Marvel cartoon. And of course FF #1 was what started what we all know as the Marvel Universe.

So the FF, more than other Marvel characters, have a certain historical place and legacy within Marvel. Most discussions of the FF center around their place in history rather than how they were reinvented in the 90's etc. (which is probably partly why there has been a lot of talk about a "retro" FF).

They were the foundation on which the rest of the Marvel universe was built, so I think they, more than other properties have reason to stick to tradition.

I agree with this. But sometimes I get the feeling that some people would be perfectly content with Marvel Studios doing their own version of Fant4stic and that this would be fully embraced just because it's Marvel and not Fox doing it now, even if it's still the same old turd.

 

[Shuri]

Could you translate this post, please? Because I have no idea what you're trying to say.

He/she is scared that marvel will change the race of one of the characters.

 

[Detective Conan]

Honestly I’m fine with race-bending though I generally prefer they cast race-accurate I’m fine if they do it with the FF.

Though isn’t Oscar Isaac a popular choice to play Reed Richards around here? Last I checked he isn’t generally considered white. Is he the exception? What am I missing here?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I agree with this. But sometimes I get the feeling that some people would be perfectly content with Marvel Studios doing their own version of Fant4stic and that this would be fully embraced just because it's Marvel and not Fox doing it now, even if it's still the same old turd.

I see comments like: "They need to change the FF because they've made 3 films and they've all failed." But I haven't seen any films even close to the FF I know from the comic books yet.

And if Marvel does start doing goofy stuff, I'm not going to give them a pass just because they're Marvel. I'm reasonably confident they get it, but I do have moments when I have my fears. And I think part of the reason I have fears is I sometimes see people on this forum, who don't have a clue who the FF are, saying really dumb things.

So far the people actually who actually work at Marvel haven't said the kind of dumb things I see around here, but they also haven't said much yet. I really want Marvel to get started on this and start doing it right so I can just ignore all the comments from people who sound so wrong.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Though isn’t Oscar Isaac a popular choice to play Reed Richards around here? Last I checked he isn’t generally considered white. Is he the exception? What am I missing here?

He looks like Reed and I don't think anybody will complain as long as the actor has the right look and personality. I'm not going to demand a DNA test. And besides, I don't know what fictional character Reed Richard's DNA profile is anyway.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm not against race bending the FF in all honesty. I was against MBJ primarily because they made Sue and Johnny adopted brother/sister. That changed their dynamic for me, and ultimately is added NOTHING to the movie because they barely even talked to each other. So what was the point!!!!

I care more about the overall tone/feel of the FF book. Trank's garbage was never going to be that, and Tim Story did it poorly. If they get a black or whatever Reed Richards and co, but it feels like the comic FF, then cool. I'm on board. But at the same time, I don't think the change really adds much to the FF. I see X-Men mentioned in here, but making X-Men diverse makes a lot of sense to me. The X-Men is a book about prejudice, so swapping some X-Men characters to make the overall cast more diverse makes sense and is in line with the spirit of the book. Plus, Xavier's School should have a bunch of students. It needs to be diverse in the school. Race bending the FF is just kind of a move that would be made for the sake of diversity. Again, if it FEELS like the classic FF I love, then I won't complain and don't overtly care. But at the same time I don't think it adds very much. But by that same token, it doesn't really hurt anything either. So, it's a whatever move to me.

 

[Dark Raven]

I see comments like: "They need to change the FF because they've made 3 films and they've all failed." But I haven't seen any films even close to the FF I know from the comic books yet.

And if Marvel does start doing goofy stuff, I'm not going to give them a pass just because they're Marvel. I'm reasonably confident they get it, but I do have moments when I have my fears. And I think part of the reason I have fears is I sometimes see people on this forum, who don't have a clue who the FF are, saying really dumb things.

So far the people actually who actually work at Marvel haven't said the kind of dumb things I see around here, but they also haven't said much yet. I really want Marvel to get started on this and start doing it right so I can just ignore all the comments from people who sound so wrong.

Well Marvel did start doing some of that with Spider-Man: Homecoming, and also with the already-mentioned Mandarin twist in IM3.

We could see Marvel pull the same trick with Doom. We'll find out he's not really a fearsome dictator at all but really underneath all that armour he's merely...

 

[Detective Conan]

I see X-Men mentioned in here, but making X-Men diverse makes a lot of sense to me. The X-Men is a book about prejudice, so swapping some X-Men characters to make the overall cast more diverse makes sense and is in line with the spirit of the book. Plus, Xavier's School should have a bunch of students. It needs to be diverse in the school. Race bending the FF is just kind of a move that would be made for the sake of diversity. Again, if it FEELS like the classic FF I love, then I won't complain and don't overtly care. But at the same time I don't think it adds very much. But by that same token, it doesn't really hurt anything either. So, it's a whatever move to me.

I agree and I would also add that making the X-Men diverse doesn’t always mean changing the race/ethnicity of certain characters. You can throw gay characters into the mix so could have the X-Men feel representative of people from all walks of life that whether that be race, gender, or sexual orientation. Kit Harrington recently made rounds on the news about his comments asking why Marvel doesn’t cast a gay actor to play a superhero. And I think that’s a rather salient point.

 

[Marvel united]

The X-Men franchise has a duty illustrate representation of different minorities on screen. And like Spider-Fan said, the school absolutely needs to be diverse. The F4? Marvel has a duty to get this property right, after 3 failed attempts. The last thing we need is Marvel making a divisive change like changing the race of a main character

 

[Darkprime]

The X-Men franchise has a duty illustrate representation of different minorities on screen.

Eh thats pushing it a bit. I dont think any franchise has a "duty" to illustrate representation. I have a feeling marvel and Disney's casting choices are going to be quite unpopular around here. Expect the words safe and generic to get thrown around.

Side note. This fan made Avengers vs X-Men poster is great.

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree and I would also add that making the X-Men diverse doesn’t always mean changing the race/ethnicity of certain characters. You can throw gay characters into the mix so could have the X-Men feel representative of people from all walks of life that whether that be race, gender, or sexual orientation. Kit Harrington recently made rounds on the news about his comments asking why Marvel doesn’t cast a gay actor to play a superhero. And I think that’s a rather salient point.

Your sex life should never be brought up in a job interview. Unless you've done something illegal.

Just let them make the best films possible with the best actors available.

 

[Marvel united]

Eh thats pushing it a bit. I dont think any franchise has a "duty" to illustrate representation. I have a feeling marvel and Disney's casting choices are going to be quite unpopular around here. Expect the words safe and generic to get thrown around.

Side note. This fan made Avengers vs X-Men poster is great.

When the building blocks of the franchise are based on the Civil Rights era of the 60s and the discrimination and oppression of marginalized groups, it absolutely does have a duty to diversity. Especially for a modern day 2020 update of the X-Men story. If certain people start complaining about a "SJW" agenda in an X-Men movie, then you know Marvel is doing it right.

We've been over this before

 

[Darkprime]

When the building blocks of the franchise are based on the Civil Rights era of the 60s and the discrimination and oppression of marginalized groups, it absolutely does have a duty to diversity. Especially for a modern day 2020 update of the X-Men story. If certain people start complaining about a "SJW" agenda in an X-Men movie, then you know Marvel is doing it right.

We've been over this before

Well see. Marvel and Disney haven't exactly broken new ground in their casting so far. Why would x-men be any different? Because its in the source material?In the end it comes down to what's more profitable and what the audience finds appealing. A prime example is all the minority actors in homecoming all have background supporting roles. Nobody complains that white males keeps getting cast as spiderman.

 

[Dilly Dilly]

I'd say outside of Wolverine, Magneto, Professor X, Cyclops & Jean Grey they can probably race change almost any other X-Men / Mutant yes ?

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd say outside of Wolverine, Magneto, Professor X, Cyclops & Jean Grey they can probably race change almost any other X-Men / Mutant yes ?

Black Colossus, White Storm, Chinese Thunderbird, Native American Jubilee, Indian Banshee yes.

 

[Marvel united]

I'd say outside of Wolverine, Magneto, Professor X, Cyclops & Jean Grey they can probably race change almost any other X-Men / Mutant yes ?

I'd also add Kitty Pryde (being Jewish), but everybody else besides Kitty and the characters you mentioned can be open casting. Beast pre-serum being a prime target for a race swap imo.

Well see. Marvel and Disney haven't exactly broken new ground in their casting so far. Why would x-men be any different? Because its in the source material?In the end it comes down to what's more profitable and what the audience finds appealing. A prime example is all the minority actors in homecoming all have background supporting roles. Nobody complains that white males keeps getting cast as spiderman.

A prime example is Black Panther: an all-black cast which outgrossed the Avengers in the US and is the highest grossing CBM film in the states (not adjusted for inflation) so don't with the "diversity is not appealing to a wide audience" if anything, X-Men embracing diversity will attract MORE people and may even turn it into the next Black Panther culturally. Especially if it's the first CBM to feature a gay character in a main role (Iceman)

 

[WeaponXCII]

I agree and I would also add that making the X-Men diverse doesn’t always mean changing the race/ethnicity of certain characters. You can throw gay characters into the mix so could have the X-Men feel representative of people from all walks of life that whether that be race, gender, or sexual orientation. Kit Harrington recently made rounds on the news about his comments asking why Marvel doesn’t cast a gay actor to play a superhero. And I think that’s a rather salient point.

Heck, the X-Men don't even need to be "made" diverse. When the day comes, the creators of the MCU X-Men will have every background imaginable to cull from.

Now the FF- that might be a different story (no pun intended! ). The historicity aspect at first seemed compelling, but keep in mind that the comics FF and the movie FF are two different things- especially for a large faction of the audience. There's arguments to be made on both sides. Someone on here I think mentioned how race changes would be "papering the cracks", and that's something I keep going back to in my mind. Certainly the smaller numbers of the group is going to magnify any changes, I would say.

Side note- even though I haven't been on here much lately, I'm really starting to get used to the new layout.

 

[Darkprime]

A prime example is Black Panther: an all-black cast which outgrossed the Avengers in the US and is the highest grossing CBM film in the states (not adjusted for inflation) so don't with the "diversity is not appealing to a wide audience" if anything, X-Men embracing diversity will attract MORE people and may even turn it into the next Black Panther culturally. Especially if it's the first CBM to feature a gay character in a main role (Iceman)

With Black Panther the casting fits within the world they were building. I'm fine with casting minorities I just dont agree that x-men has some obligation like it has to do it. I think that's the wrong and a bad mentality for marvel to approach this with. Just cast the best actors for the role just dont go casting a minority actor because you have to meet some quota. If the character calls for it great. do it.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd also add Kitty Pryde (being Jewish), but everybody else besides Kitty and the characters you mentioned can be open casting. Beast pre-serum being a prime target for a race swap imo.

What about the characters I mentioned? Aren't they already specific ethnicities? Are you saying you can have a non-African Storm?

And even someone like Banshee has to be white. Now someone could argue that it isn't essential and there's nothing inherently white about him. But the very name "Banshee" comes from Irish and Celtic myth, being a wailing Irish spirit. So you can't exactly make him an African or say that he was named after an African spirit or a Russian spirit. If he were named after a Russian spirit, then call him Smirnoff not Banshee.