The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Darkprime]

it would suck to get F4 back but not get a human torch and spidey team up movie.

 

[HBarnill]

it would suck to get F4 back but not get a human torch and spidey team up movie.

It sucks that chocolate ice cream doesn’t rain from the sky. You don’t always get what you want.

 

[Iceman]

it would suck to get F4 back but not get a human torch and spidey team up movie.

If they ever want to do something like that they can throw in Iceman too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This

This is wrong. A Marvel Universe with F4, XM, and TA has to have Spider-Man. Feige knows this

Feige may, but at the end of the day, it will be up to Sony.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

it would suck to get F4 back but not get a human torch and spidey team up movie.

Yeah, there are a lot of things I'd like to see that we won't get such as Hulk Vs. Rhino, Sandman in the Frightful Four etc.

But that's why we're here. Hope is still alive, the FF just aren't the primary focus anymore.

The good news about high expectations for Venom, at this moment, when nobody has seen it yet, is it could have trouble meeting those expectations.

I know they won't be getting any money from me, and their computers are probably telling them: "Oh, this Willie Lumpkin is a sure thing. He's seen every Spider-man movie and most Marvel and DC films in general on opening weekend."

And that's something that shouldn't be ignored. They're counting on a certain box office based on films like this doing well with people like us. If we stay home, that could skew their numbers.

 

[Smurphftw]

'Venom' Tracking Reports Suggest Sony Will Shatter October Box Office Record

"According to Deadline, the early tracking numbers are suggesting that Venom will open between $60 million and $70 million on the first weekend of October. If this is the case, and Venom opens anywhere in that range, it will easily become the highest-earning opening weekend in October box office history."

I personally find this highly unlikely, but whatever. Box office predictors haven't exactly been killing it lately. "Solo" is a very good recent example.

 

[Moridin]

The MCU deal ends after Far From Home

Sony is taking Spidey back

The current deal ends. There's nothing stopping them making a new deal, and I don't see why they wouldn't considering it's going so well so far. Spidey is making Sony more money associated with the MCU. Taking him out makes no sense financially. Sony can't buy the level of exposure Spidey gets from appearing in multi-billion dollar films like IW.

Unless FFH utterly crashes and burns or Sony starts hating money, then I doubt Spidey goes anywhere.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The current deal ends. There's nothing stopping them making a new deal, and I don't see why they wouldn't considering it's going so well so far. Spidey is making Sony more money associated with the MCU. Taking him out makes no sense financially. Sony can't buy the level of exposure Spidey gets from appearing in multi-billion dollar films like IW.

Unless FFH utterly crashes and burns or Sony starts hating money, then I doubt Spidey goes anywhere.

It's not really that easy. There are a lot of variables. Look, I want Spidey in the MCU forever. We all do. But Sony has to determine how dedicated they are to this Sonyverse thing. Is Spider-Man boosting the BO of those other spin-offs more valuable to them than the MCU brand name? For us fans, that is an easy question. But we're not the ones paying screen writers to develop these projects with the intention of investing over $100 mil into something like Kraven. Does Sony think the extra $$$ they earn inserting Spidey into a Kraven movie is more valuable than just making Kraven without Spidey and just allowing Marvel to keep making movie that will no doubt perform well. Sony will have to decide if this arrangement works for them long term or not. Honestly, I see pros and cons on both sides and I have no idea what way the wind will blow.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It's not really that easy. There are a lot of variables. Look, I want Spidey in the MCU forever. We all do. But Sony has to determine how dedicated they are to this Sonyverse thing. Is Spider-Man boosting the BO of those other spin-offs more valuable to them than the MCU brand name? For us fans, that is an easy question. But we're not the ones paying screen writers to develop these projects with the intention of investing over $100 mil into something like Kraven. Does Sony think the extra $$$ they earn inserting Spidey into a Kraven movie is more valuable than just making Kraven without Spidey and just allowing Marvel to keep making movie that will no doubt perform well. Sony will have to decide if this arrangement works for them long term or not. Honestly, I see pros and cons on both sides and I have no idea what way the wind will blow.

There is also Disney's point of view. They already control the merchandise which is where the real Spider-Man money is made. They were able to get Spider-Man together with The Avengers before the main actors retired from the roles. Unless they are able to get additional concessions from Sony or Sony's lousy films start killing his merchandise sales (and we've seen no evidence of this), Disney may have little reason to renew the deal themselves.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The current deal ends. There's nothing stopping them making a new deal, and I don't see why they wouldn't considering it's going so well so far. Spidey is making Sony more money associated with the MCU. Taking him out makes no sense financially. Sony can't buy the level of exposure Spidey gets from appearing in multi-billion dollar films like IW.

Unless FFH utterly crashes and burns or Sony starts hating money, then I doubt Spidey goes anywhere.

I suspect Sony (foolishly) believes they're going to make several films using Spidey side-characters, then they'll bring back Spidey, put him in that world and they'll have their own Spidey-verse they can use to make two or three films every year.

And if they had someone like Kevin Feige, they might be able to pull it off. But just given the way they seem to be fumbling blindly at the moment, I don't think they have a solid plan or the right people behind the scenes.

But if Venom does well, it will encourage them that they can pull it off, and they could waste many years making a mess of things before they realize that they just don't know how to do it.

 

[ADollarADay]

But that's why we're here. Hope is still alive, the FF just aren't the primary focus anymore.

It's not over until the fat lady sings!

It's not really that easy. There are a lot of variables. Look, I want Spidey in the MCU forever. We all do. But Sony has to determine how dedicated they are to this Sonyverse thing. Is Spider-Man boosting the BO of those other spin-offs more valuable to them than the MCU brand name? For us fans, that is an easy question. But we're not the ones paying screen writers to develop these projects with the intention of investing over $100 mil into something like Kraven. Does Sony think the extra $$$ they earn inserting Spidey into a Kraven movie is more valuable than just making Kraven without Spidey and just allowing Marvel to keep making movie that will no doubt perform well. Sony will have to decide if this arrangement works for them long term or not. Honestly, I see pros and cons on both sides and I have no idea what way the wind will blow.

Not sure why people keep ignoring Disney in this equation. I've explained why Disney is more likely to walk away from this deal than Sony. Sony reiterated that they are "open" to having MCU characters show up in their little spiderverse (and honestly why wouldn't they)? Sony would very much like to continue the deal as is.

Marvel just proved (with Sony publishing and Insomniac developing the game) that Spider-man will sell boatloads regardless. Which, by the way, they could use as leverage as major Marvel (and Star Wars) games can be videogame system sellers which is extremely important to Sony, especially as we approach the PS5/XBoxNext.

The deal heavily favors Sony who still has a pretty good grip on the license. Disney will either want them to release that grip or loosen it if they are to renew. And yes, Feige wants to keep Spidey, but he knows the business and having a bigger sandbox of FF and X-Men will allow him and his team to keep expanding the universe without SM - if it comes to that.

I don't see Disney resigning the deal without Sony majorly loosening their grip. Disney would probably want to buy them out and use Endemol or an RSN to get the deal done. Sony will get a major ROI on their 10MM investment on the license. Sony execs will have to make a decision pretty soon. I think it's clear what Disney will likely do and if it wasn't for the Fox deal I think they would be laser focused on getting that license fully back in house.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I suspect Sony (foolishly) believes they're going to make several films using Spidey side-characters, then they'll bring back Spidey, put him in that world and they'll have their own Spidey-verse they can use to make two or three films every year.

And if they had someone like Kevin Feige, they might be able to pull it off. But just given the way they seem to be fumbling blindly at the moment, I don't think they have a solid plan or the right people behind the scenes.

But if Venom does well, it will encourage them that they can pull it off, and they could waste many years making a mess of things before they realize that they just don't know how to do it.

Or will Venom's failure (assuming it fails) convince Sony they cannot wait and need to put Spider-Man back into their Sonyverse immediately? Again, I really see both sides of this argument and am not sure where Sony sits on this.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

To Sony's credit, the idea of diversifying the world with many characters does make sense. When they were just making Spider-man film after Spider-man film things were getting stale. But there's a big gap between having a viable concept and effectively executing that concept.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Or will Venom's failure (assuming it fails) convince Sony they cannot wait and need to put Spider-Man back into their Sonyverse immediately? Again, I really see both sides of this argument and am not sure where Sony sits on this.

I think this relates to my post above that I was typing as you were posting this. Spider-man, without strong supporting characters, can't survive film after film. He needs either other Marvel characters to interact with or ongoing, strong Spider-related characters (like Venom) to have a full, rich world that isn't just Spider-man, Spider-man, Spider-man.

That's not to say they might not react the way you suggest, but if so, I think that would be a foolish move.

 

[ADollarADay]

Or will Venom's failure (assuming it fails) convince Sony they cannot wait and need to put Spider-Man back into their Sonyverse immediately? Again, I really see both sides of this argument and am not sure where Sony sits on this.

John Campea is that you?

I kid, but that's literally the argument Campea was making a few days ago.

 

[Spider-Fan]

John Campea is that you?

I kid, but that's literally the argument Campea was making a few days ago.

Great minds think alike? LOL!

But in all seriousness, I can see this argument going that way. Remember, Feige planned the MCU with the intention of sticking around. Someone like Tom Rothman may not care about the Spider-Man IP's long term health as on average, Studio heads change after only a few years. He may just want to cash grab while he still has the gig.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Or will Venom's failure (assuming it fails) convince Sony they cannot wait and need to put Spider-Man back into their Sonyverse immediately? Again, I really see both sides of this argument and am not sure where Sony sits on this.

I'd be very surprised. If it fails, all that shows is that Sony needs Marvel. Disney is in a far better negotiating position if Venom is a flop.

 

[Marvel united]

And what happens if Venom is a box-office smash? That will put even more strain on Disney's relationship with Sony

 

[Detective Conan]

And what happens if Venom is a box-office smash? That will put even more strain on Disney's relationship with Sony

Other than obviously a sequel to Venom I suspect Sony wants Marvel to play ball and allow their version of Venom to be in the MCU or at least allow MCU Spider-Man crossover with Venom. Feige will not allow that to happen as he likely wouldn’t want to confuse audiences.

As ADollarADay pointed out: It’s likely Sony wants to keep the Marvel deal going but the problem is will Marvel want to? Especially since Venom’s potential success might embolden Sony to start stipulating that Marvel must let Spider-Man cross over with their Universe’s characters like Venom in order to renew the deal and if Marvel/Disney refuses to those terms then you can kiss MCU Spider-Man goodbye.

And don’t think Marvel will do anything it can to keep Spider-Man in the MCU since Marvel/Disney already had an extremely successful cinematic universe without Spidey and perhaps the fact that they even had Spider-Man in the MCU at all is enough for Marvel to let it go back with Sony. They’d be content that they had Spider-Man and he got to be part of this universe for awhile. Plus they’re going to be getting FF and the X-Men back pretty soon so that will likely be more than enough to fill the Spider-Man shape void left after Sony potentially pulls him out.

That and Disney already makes more off the Spider-Man merchandise than Sony ever makes with the Spider-Man movies.

 

[wobbly]

And what happens if Venom is a box-office smash? That will put even more strain on Disney's relationship with Sony

It would embolden Sony in pursuing other spin offs to be sure, but they ain't there yet.

Tracking might look good but it's no guarantee, and even if Venom opens well I suspect it will be rather front loaded.

 

[Darkprime]

I hope the deal is altered so Feige gets access to spider-mans rogues gallery. And secure him for two more trilogies.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I hope the deal is altered so Feige gets access to spider-mans rogues gallery. And secure him for two more trilogies.

He does have access to them...within the confines of Spider-Man movies.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

If Venom bombs I don't even see the point of continuing this "Sonyverse". Seems like Marvel/Disney would have a lot of leverage if Venom isn't a big success or if there was no interest for future followups (a movie could have a good opening weekend but if the reviews and word of mouth are toxic it gives little room to do a sequel that makes more money, because the interest isn't there).

 

[Marvel united]

I feel like a *****e for wanting it to bomb

 

[HBarnill]

I don’t want any film to bomb. If Venom doesn’t get to be in the MCU, whatever. We’ve survived a decade without him in it, we can deal with it.