The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Detective Conan]

Yeah...as much as I hate to admit it, Venom is a win for Sony which means a sequel is now pretty much guaranteed at this point. When they do a sequel I do hope they get a new director.

 

[Another_Fool]

Yeah...as much as I hate to admit it, Venom is a win for Sony which means a sequel is now pretty much guaranteed at this point. When they do a sequel I do hope they get a new director.

I don't think the director is the problem, its the writing. They need a better script. That's it. Get that script good enough where Tom can still do his thing and Woody can chew that scenery, then it could be an objectively good movie while still pleasing it's core audience.

 

[Xeno]

Hopefully, Sony will keep the same director and writers and double down on the crappiness that made Venom poisonous to critics. There are plenty of franchises that made a lot of money on their first films in spite of poor quality, only to have their box office decline sharply with their sequels. Transformers, the DCEU and ASM franchises are all great examples of the impact that bad movies have over time.

 

[Xeno]

Double-post.

 

[WeaponXCII]

Maybe somebody already brought this up, but I think it's pretty telling that Sony is leading off their universe with Venom, a character that has a good amount of popularity with general audiences and also previous exposure on the big screen, rather than actually taking a risk with someone like Kraven or even Jackpot. Compare them to Marvel Studios (something that some are sure to take umbrage with), who took an enormous gamble by spearheading their universe with a completely untested character (as opposed to Cap, who was already seen on film, even if it wasn't a good adaptation), and the difference in mindsets become immediately apparent.

 

[Another_Fool]

Maybe somebody already brought this up, but I think it's pretty telling that Sony is leading off their universe with Venom, a character that has a good amount of popularity with general audiences and also previous exposure on the big screen, rather than actually taking a risk with someone like Kraven or even Jackpot. Compare them to Marvel Studios (something that some are sure to take umbrage with), who took an enormous gamble by spearheading their universe with a completely untested character (as opposed to Cap, who was already seen on film, even if it wasn't a good adaptation), and the difference in mindsets become immediately apparent.

Eh, I mean how much of a risk was it to spearhead with Iron Man (who obviously wasn't an A character but neither was Captain America and was considered less corny than Rogers)? I know it was second but only a month and a half later they hedged their gamble with Hulk who pretty much is in the same situation as Venom, who was very popular and on the big screen before. So no Marvel Studios didn't take that extraordinarily of a gamble at the start.

To be clear, I'm not saying they never gambled. Guardians and Avengers was their true big gamble.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I would say thor and cap were also enough of a gamble. Obviously avengers and guardians were too for different reasons.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I always thought Iron Man done well had money written all over him. He is just such a cool character. An rich cocky playboy who gets his powers from machines he builds himself. That's very marketable.

 

[wobbly]

Iron-Man was a huge gamble imo.

First, not an A Lister. Second, casting RDJ, and 3rd, they were risking losing the rights forever if the film bombed and they couldn't pay off the big loan required to finance the films.

The Incredible Hulk was far from a hedged bet in the end, as that is currently the lowest box office performer Marvel have had, trailing around $100mil behind Caps first film.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The third thing was the biggest risk. That really was a legitimate threat.

I wasn't too concerned about the others. RDJ is a great actor and fit the role like a glove. It might have blown up later if he got into trouble again, but I thought they could at least get one film out of him. Not being an A-Lister didn't bother me that much. Being unknown is nowhere near as bad as being disliked. I think it is much easier getting an audience for a new property than something that has already been done poorly (like Fantastic Four).

 

[WeaponXCII]

Iron-Man was a huge gamble imo.

First, not an A Lister. Second, casting RDJ, and 3rd, they were risking losing the rights forever if the film bombed and they couldn't pay off the big loan required to finance the films.

The Incredible Hulk was far from a hedged bet in the end, as that is currently the lowest box office performer Marvel have had, trailing around $100mil behind Caps first film.

Exactly.

My point wasn't so much about the MCU, though, as it was about the Sonyverse; the former was just used to elucidate it by providing contrast. Sony is playing it as safe as they can.

 

[Darkprime]

So I got bored and wanted to one of my own Phase 4 slates. I've been wondering if all these recent leaks from the hollywood reporter and variety might force marvel to move up the phase 4 reveal since a lot of these movies will be entering pre-production/filming soon. so its going to be hard to keep info locked down. But anyway. So here's what I got.

Doctor Strange 2 -Scott Derrickson - May 1, 2020

Black Widow - Cate Shortland - July 31, 2020

The Eternals - Chloe Zhao - November 2020

Black Panther 2 - Ryan Coogler - February, 2021

Guardians of the Galaxy 3 - May 7, 2021

Thor 4/Asguardians of the Galaxy - Taika Waititi - November 5, 2021

Captain Marvel 2 - Anna Boden, Ryan Fleck - Feb 18 - 2022

Avengers 5 - May 6 - 2022

Ant-Man 3 - Peyton Reed - July 29, 2022

We've been told Phase 4 will be more cosmic hence my reasoning for having GOTG3 and Thor 4 In the same year. Because Ant-Man and The Wasp didn't do so well Ant-Man's threequel get's bumped late into phase 4 to give it the time it needs. GOTG3 delayed a year to let the controversy die down.Doctor Strange 2 gets moved up the timeline. As does Eternals. Marvel seems to like its lesser known franchises to debut in November. Captain Marvel 2 in the February 2022 slot since I didn't know where else to put it tbh. Black Panther 2 could take ether the Feb 2021 slot or Feb 2022 slot but 2021 seems more reasonable. Black Widow in the summer in the middle of the summer like GOTG1 in 2014.

One of the big questions is who will direct the Avengers following the Russos. The current potential candidate Imo is Ryan Coogler. You could bring back the Russo's to produce and assist Coogler. If Avengers 5 is New Avengers or something then it will be smaller in scale compared to Infinity War could be a good fit for Coogler. If he wants to. Otherwise the other option is Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck depending on how Captain Marvel turns out if its Winter Soldier level of awesome and Feige really likes their work. I could see them being offered the job.

I probably have one or two films wrong here I'm actually not sure well get a ant-man 3 or Thor 4. Those were just educated guesses. Based on what we've heard. I feel like the November 5,2021 slot will probably be a new franchise. And I dont know if Captain Marvel 2 is suited for a February date. It wouldn;t surprise me if the sequel got the July 2022 date. And something else took the February 2022 date.

By the time D23/SDCC roles around next year I feel like we'll pretty much have the complete picture and you can guess a lot of what phase 4 will be based on past trends. I.E each character getting a trilogy. A couple of new franchises etc. I can see why Feige want's to keep it under wraps till after Avengers 4 giving that film the spotlight it deserves but at the same time it only makes people want to know more.And more stuff will get out. Benedict Wong just let slip that Dr Strange 2 may film later this year that kind of stuff you cant really control.

Lets not forget Fantastic Four and X-Men being in the mix as well. Probably another reason Feige doesn't want to reveal anything in case they have to slot them in at the last minute and make some release date changes like when they bumped a bunch of stuff back for Spider-Man that wasn't a good look.

I think Phase 4 overall will play it pretty safe to be honest I don't see any big game changing franchises or characters introduced. Since this could be the first phase without Iron Man and Captain America. Stick with what works and if they get the chance then slot in Fantastic Four and maybe take their time with X-Men.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Who would've thought we'd be living in a world where Wakanda, Thanos and Infinity Stones are household names and the Black Panther is a billion dollar grossing movie.

 

[Abudefduf]

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I really don't want Peyton Reed to direct Ant-Man 3. We all gave Ant-Man a pass because it was the first one and because Edgar Wright's writing kind of saved it, but Ant-Man and the Wasp has got to be the most inspid Marvel movie since... I dunno, Dark World? What the series needs is a good shot in the arm, not another mediocre entry.

Needless to say, I'm also of the opinion that Reed should be kept as far away as possible from the Fantastic Four.

 

[Darkprime]

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I really don't want Peyton Reed to direct Ant-Man 3. We all gave Ant-Man a pass because it was the first one and because Edgar Wright's writing kind of saved it, but Ant-Man and the Wasp has got to be the most inspid Marvel movie since... I dunno, Dark World? What the series needs is a good shot in the arm, not another mediocre entry.

Needless to say, I'm also of the opinion that Reed should be kept as far away as possible from the Fantastic Four.

Ant-Man 3 could probably do with a Ragnarok style shakeup . Keep Peyton Reed on as a producer so he can have some creative input.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I really don't want Peyton Reed to direct Ant-Man 3. We all gave Ant-Man a pass because it was the first one and because Edgar Wright's writing kind of saved it, but Ant-Man and the Wasp has got to be the most inspid Marvel movie since... I dunno, Dark World? What the series needs is a good shot in the arm, not another mediocre entry.

Needless to say, I'm also of the opinion that Reed should be kept as far away as possible from the Fantastic Four.

I honestly and truly believe that the main function of that movie was just to provide little clues and foreshadowing to see how either mutants or the Fantastic Four could fit in the MCU. Aside from it just being filler. And then a lot of the business between that Disney-Fox deal (no matter what they say publicly) was probably brewing in private during filming, so they decided to use that movie to provide little hints at how the future properties could exist in that world.

Just my little conspiracy theory.

 

[Darkprime]

You know I thought at the end of that movie that Janet would make an interesting gender swapped professor x.

I honestly and truly believe that the main function of that movie was just to provide little clues and foreshadowing to see how either mutants or the Fantastic Four could fit in the MCU. Aside from it just being filler. And then a lot of the business between that Disney-Fox deal (no matter what they say publicly) was probably brewing in private during filming, so they decided to use that movie to provide little hints at how the future properties could exist in that world.

Just my little conspiracy theory.

I'm curious what gave you that idea? Was it all the quantum realm stuff?

 

[wobbly]

Janet talking about her new abitlities as 'evolution' could be seen as hinting towards mutants.

 

[Darkprime]

Janet talking about her new abitlities as 'evolution' could be seen as hinting towards mutants.

True. It probably is a hint but because the deal isnt finalised yet they couldn't outright say it. If the deal closes then they can call back to that and say yea we actually teased mutants already.

 

[Detective Conan]

Needless to say, I'm also of the opinion that Reed should be kept as far away as possible from the Fantastic Four.

Well Reed is considered a mad scientist so maybe he should forfeit his leadership of the Fantastic Four. After all his ideas always seems to be a stretch if you ask me. Oh wait! You’re talking about a different Reed who doesn’t have the power to elongate his body.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I'm curious what gave you that idea? Was it all the quantum realm stuff?

The Quantum Realm stuff, Janet talking about evolution and obtaining superpowers, the whole plotline with Ghost, it just feels like a way to explain either how mutants are created and/or a way to introduce the F4.

I think it'd be too predictable if we get a whole MCU F4 movie and they've been trapped in the Quantum Realm for all these years though.

 

[Darkprime]

The Quantum Realm stuff, Janet talking about evolution and obtaining superpowers, the whole plotline with Ghost, it just feels like a way to explain either how mutants are created and/or a way to introduce the F4.

I think it'd be too predictable if we get a whole MCU F4 movie and they've been trapped in the Quantum Realm for all these years though.

yes and no. Its kind of the perfect setup tho. They could have it so they escaped at the same time off screen as Janet. They've been stuck in there since the 60s after a fight with Doom.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

If they'd been stuck there that long we'd end up with an f4 that's as old as hank and janet. Janet still aged plenty while she was down there.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm not a fan of the whole FF were trapped somewhere thing. It's been done in the MCU several times. It's old hat. I'd rather they just have gotten their powers prior to the movie off-screen, with possible flashbacks to the event.

 

[Detective Conan]

Yeah, I hope they just introduce them in present day and not do any convoluted stuff to bring them into the MCU.