The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Web-Head]

I know people are all keen on Galactus or Doom being the next collective MCU Big Bad, but you could make the same argument for Magneto or Apocalypse. Gradually build Mags up in post credit scenes with his attacks against humans and then boom we got AvX.

But I still vote Sinister for being the first MCU X-Men antagonist.

Yes to Sinister and yes to Apocalypse. I want a smaller scale big bad. Not that Ultron wasn't, but something similar in scale to him.

I would love for Fiege to get their hands on Appcalypse. It probably won't happen any time in the distant future though given hoe he wants to do stuff not done before.

I could see Apocalypse being used since they did a pretty terrible job. Most people wouldn't even know it was the same guy. We'd just need to see Oscar Isaac's Reed Richards take him on

I would not be surprised if Magneto was the villain at all in the first MCU X-Men movie. In fact, I expect him to be. But, I think introducing someone like Mr. Sinister for a 1st movie would be better, and use Magneto in the 2nd film.

Magneto needs to be around, for sure. I know people are tired of him, but I think he still needs to be a focus. I wonder if or how they'll keep his origin though

 

[Marvel united]

I would not be surprised if Magneto was the villain at all in the first MCU X-Men movie. In fact, I expect him to be. But, I think introducing someone like Mr. Sinister for a 1st movie would be better, and use Magneto in the 2nd film.

Magneto has appeared as the main antagonist/and/or a main protagonist in all 7 X-Men movies. Why would Marvel want to recycle one of the most overused elements of the Singer films when there are dozens of unused X-Men villains to be used at their leisure? If Marvel is keeping Norman Osborn out of the first Spider-Man trilogy, it's not hard at all to see the likely scenario where Feige comes to the same conclusion every X-Fan has about Magneto being played out and tired. Give other villains a chance to shine.

As for Sinster, I could see him being used too but I feel like he works better in a sequel where mutants are firmly established in the MCU. His whole deal after all is trying to create the ultimate mutant from a wide gene pool of powers and traits. Plus if you have Sinister, you also have to have the Marauders in order for the X-Men to have an active antagonist to oppose in the story and again, their most famous story Is Mutant Massacre and that could totally be something that is done in a sequel as well. So Sinister can work as the starting antagonist but a character like that works best if they are similarly built up imo

 

[Spider-Fan]

Magneto has appeared as the main antagonist/and/or a main protagonist in all 7 X-Men movies. Why would Marvel want to recycle one of the most overused elements of the Singer films when there are dozens of unused X-Men villains to be used at their leisure? If Marvel is keeping Norman Osborn out of the first Spider-Man trilogy, it's not hard at all to see the likely scenario where Feige comes to the same conclusion every X-Fan has about Magneto being played out and tired. Give other villains a chance to shine.

As for Sinster, I could see him being used too but I feel like he works better in a sequel where mutants are firmly established in the MCU. His whole deal after all is trying to create the ultimate mutant from a wide gene pool of powers and traits. Plus if you have Sinister, you also have to have the Marauders in order for the X-Men to have an active antagonist to oppose in the story and again, their most famous story Is Mutant Massacre and that could totally be something that is done in a sequel as well. So Sinister can work as the starting antagonist but a character like that works best if they are similarly built up imo

Actually, I think Sinister would work better in a 1st film because he is A - a Genetics expert, so he can explain to the audience the context of mutation through history and what a mutant within the MCU is, and B - if they opt to, could be used to build up Apocalypse for a future film.

As for Magneto, Magneto is one of the prime acquisitions the MCU is receiving in this. Much like Dr. Doom, I see Marvel wanting to put their version out there sooner than later. Especially with the history they can use him for with Wanda (should they go that route). I agree, there is fatigue to how he has been portrayed in the Fox films. But the MCU version would no doubt be different, and thus fresher. Likewise, Doom is going to make some type of appearance in the FF movie I bet. Even if it is small, I bet we see him.

 

[Dark Raven]

Lol @ Bendis taking the Kinberg head in the sand approach

he knows that we all know, he's just Bendising at this point.

They left Bendis on Truman Show island, where Kinberg has been marooned since Fant4stic.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

No to Magneto. He's been the recurring villain for the last nearly 20 years in the X-Men series. And now that he's in the MCU, they're going to say "Who can we get as our next villain? I know, let's make Magneto the big bad! We haven't seen him before!"

But in the same breath, Doom has been in all the Fantastic Four live action movies and we all still want to go to Latveria. And Fox merely just scratched the surface of what Magneto can do, in the MCU I want to see not only his anger and fury towards humans but show what he can do as a physical threat against superheroes he never faced before.

We still have yet to see this guy ^^^

 

[Dark Raven]

But in the same breath, Doom has been in all the Fantastic Four live action movies and we all still want to go to Latveria. And Fox merely just scratched the surface of what Magneto can do, in the MCU I want to see not only his anger and fury towards humans but show what he can do as a physical threat against superheroes he never faced before.

We still have yet to see this guy ^^^

Magneto has been done reasonably competently in the X-Men films though. He hasn't been a Norman Osborne wannabe who then ends up like a tin woodsman with electrical powers, or a crash test dummy.

We've never had a proper decent version of Doom. And while there have been 3 FF theatrical films, they've been spaced apart. We've seen Magneto on our screens almost every year for the past 19 years. They've thoroughly explored his backstory too.

 

[Web-Head]

A colorful and more powerful Magneto would work fine, but I'd almost keep him out of the promotion as much as possible.

As for Doom, a mention and hint would be fine, but I don't want him in the 1st F4 movie. That's part of the reason I want Namor or someone like Molecule Man

 

[Marvel united]

Actually, I think Sinister would work better in a 1st film because he is A - a Genetics expert, so he can explain to the audience the context of mutation through history and what a mutant within the MCU is, and B - if they opt to, could be used to build up Apocalypse for a future film.

As for Magneto, Magneto is one of the prime acquisitions the MCU is receiving in this. Much like Dr. Doom, I see Marvel wanting to put their version out there sooner than later. Especially with the history they can use him for with Wanda (should they go that route). I agree, there is fatigue to how he has been portrayed in the Fox films. But the MCU version would no doubt be different, and thus fresher. Likewise, Doom is going to make some type of appearance in the FF movie I bet. Even if it is small, I bet we see him.

Yes but Sinster can't be an active antagonist in the story because he works in the shadows/behind the scenes. You still need someone who can actively oppose the X-Men and introduce action into the movie. I guess you could do the Nasty Boys as his lackeys but the Marauders should definitely be saved for potential sequel(s). Sinister could come back in the sequel but we shouldn't have to keep using him over and over like what Fox did with Magneto. It would be nice to be able to introduce the Shi'ar and the Brood too - both completely unrelated to Essex.

Magneto isn't really like Dr. Doom. Firstly, unlike Doom, Erik has been done 7 times and done WELL at that. He has been portrayed accurately and wonderfully by both McKellen and Fassbender. Doom was done terribly in both attempts. Secondly, Magneto Is not as overarching villain of the Marvel universe like Doom. Sure, he's had stories where he's opposed other heroes but he's not the wide-spanning threat that Doom is. He's almost always exclusively kept in the X-Men's corner of the MU.

You could argue that MCU Norman would be fresh/different too but even then, the Green Goblin has had less than half of all appearances on film than Magneto. He's a character who needs a loooooong break after constant overexposure. Fans aren't the only one who have Magneto fatigue.. There's no reason to keep reusing Erik when there are enough X-Men villains to support at least 6 movies without him in it. (Even if I doubt they'd go that long without introducing him). We need someone fresh

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yes but Sinster can't be an active antagonist in the story because he works in the shadows/behind the scenes. You still need someone who can actively oppose the X-Men and introduce action into the movie. I guess you could do the Nasty Boys as his lackeys but the Marauders should definitely be saved for potential sequel(s). Sinister could come back in the sequel but we shouldn't have to keep using him over and over like what Fox did with Magneto. It would be nice to be able to introduce the Shi'ar and the Brood too - both completely unrelated to Essex.

You just answer your own question here. Sinister has always used minions and Marvel has options for minions to give him. Plus, he can be brought back later as one of Apocalypse's Horseman.

Magneto isn't really like Dr. Doom. Firstly, unlike Doom, Erik has been done 7 times and done WELL at that. He has been portrayed accurately and wonderfully by both McKellen and Fassbender. Doom was done terribly in both attempts. Secondly, Magneto Is not as overarching villain of the Marvel universe like Doom. Sure, he's had stories where he's opposed other heroes but he's not the wide-spanning threat that Doom is. He's almost always exclusively kept in the X-Men's corner of the MU.

You could argue that MCU Norman would be fresh/different too but even then, the Green Goblin has had less appearances on film than Magneto. He's a character who needs a loooooong break after constant overexposure. Fans aren't the only one who have Magneto fatigue.. There's no reason to keep reusing Erik when there are enough X-Men villains to support at least 6 movies without him in it. (Even if I doubt they'd go that long without introducing him). We need someone fresh

Difference is Norman Osborn is not as linked to Spider-Man to the degree Magneto is the X-Men. Yes, he is Spider-Man's nemesis, but he was also comics dead for 20 years and Spider-Man's arch-enemy has changed many times over. Not to mention Marvel doesn't fully control Norman, I am sure Sony/Marvel may have had differences on using Norman in Sony movies and such (he was rumored to be in Silver & Black). With Magneto, Marvel would have no such restriction. I am not saying Magneto is the only villain we should ever use, but he contextualizes the core struggle of the X-Men as a series better than anyone else.

 

[Web-Head]

I do think we'll see Doom way before we see Magneto, but I think we'll see the F4 before we see mutants anyway

 

[Dark Raven]

Yes but Sinster can't be an active antagonist in the story because he works in the shadows/behind the scenes. You still need someone who can actively oppose the X-Men and introduce action into the movie. I guess you could do the Nasty Boys as his lackeys but the Marauders should definitely be saved for potential sequel(s). Sinister could come back in the sequel but we shouldn't have to keep using him over and over like what Fox did with Magneto. It would be nice to be able to introduce the Shi'ar and the Brood too - both completely unrelated to Essex.

Magneto isn't really like Dr. Doom. Firstly, unlike Doom, Erik has been done 7 times and done WELL at that. He has been portrayed accurately and wonderfully by both McKellen and Fassbender. Doom was done terribly in both attempts. Secondly, Magneto Is not as overarching villain of the Marvel universe like Doom. Sure, he's had stories where he's opposed other heroes but he's not the wide-spanning threat that Doom is. He's almost always exclusively kept in the X-Men's corner of the MU.

You could argue that MCU Norman would be fresh/different too but even then, the Green Goblin has had less than half of all appearances on film than Magneto. He's a character who needs a loooooong break after constant overexposure. Fans aren't the only one who have Magneto fatigue.. There's no reason to keep reusing Erik when there are enough X-Men villains to support at least 6 movies without him in it. (Even if I doubt they'd go that long without introducing him). We need someone fresh

That's why I say use Count Nefaria as the villain. He has ties to the Avengers as he's fought them. He's also Madame Masque's father (well the proper Madame Masque, not the bastardised Whitney Frost version we got in Agent Carter). And he is the villain that the Giant Sized X-Men team fought when Thunderbird died.

Using Nefaria (if he's already been seeded in other Avengers films) will make him seem like he's not exclusively an X-Men villain. And that's what needs to be different about the MCU X-Men. It can't just be the Fox universe transplanted into the MCU as if under different ownership but still in a universe all on their own. If you're going to use the X-Men now, they need to crossover with the rest of the MCU, just like Spider-Man does.

Nefaria is enough of an X-Men villain, but not exclusively one like Sinister or Apocalypse. Let the X-Men world feel bigger and more connected.

You just answer your own question here. Sinister has always used minions and Marvel has options for minions to give him. Plus, he can be brought back later as one of Apocalypse's Horseman.

I still want Beta Ray Bill as one of the Horsemen, even if having him in this story is like having a horse of a different colour.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That's why I say use Count Nefaria as the villain. He has ties to the Avengers as he's fought them. He's also Madame Masque's father (well the proper Madame Masque, not the bastardised Whitney Frost version we got in Agent Carter). And he is the villain that the Giant Sized X-Men team fought when Thunderbird died.

Using Nefaria (if he's already been seeded in other Avengers films) will make him seem like he's not exclusively an X-Men villain. And that's what needs to be different about the MCU X-Men. It can't just be the Fox universe transplanted into the MCU as if under different ownership but still in a universe all on their own. If you're going to use the X-Men now, they need to crossover with the rest of the MCU, just like Spider-Man does.

Nefaria is enough of an X-Men villain, but not exclusively one like Sinister or Apocalypse. Let the X-Men world feel bigger and more connected.

I honestly keep forgetting Count Nefaria exists, LOL!!! I wouldn't complain if they used him, though I'd maybe see him being the type of dude that AoS could use like they did Graviton. I think Sinister is my preferred option.

 

[Dark Raven]

I honestly keep forgetting Count Nefaria exists, LOL!!! I wouldn't complain if they used him, though I'd maybe see him being the type of dude that AoS could use like they did Graviton. I think Sinister is my preferred option.

Well he kind of looks a bit like Graviton with his beard. But no point having two beardy dudes on AOS. Not sure who could play Nefaria, but he'd have to be a bit older to seem like he could be the father of a full-grown woman.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well he kind of looks a bit like Graviton with his beard. But no point having two beardy dudes on AOS. Not sure who could play Nefaria, but he'd have to be a bit older to seem like he could be the father of a full-grown woman.

Realistically though, I see so many characters being higher priority to use than Nefaria. On both the Avengers and X-Men side.

 

[Detective Conan]

@Spider-Fan, what are the chances that Feige gives the Fantastic Four to the television division run by Jeph Loeb like he did with Inhumans so Scott Buck can take a crack at the FF but keeps Doctor Doom for the movies?

 

[Spider-Fan]

@Spider-Fan, what are the chances that Feige gives the Fantastic Four to the television division run by Jeph Loeb like he did with Inhumans so Scott Buck can take a crack at the FF but keeps Doctor Doom for the movies?

None, LOL

 

[Web-Head]

I don't even want to see the F4 on Disney+, they need to be on the big screen.

 

[terry78]

What is this?

 

[Marvel united]

You just answer your own question here. Sinister has always used minions and Marvel has options for minions to give him. Plus, he can be brought back later as one of Apocalypse's Horseman.

But then, you're putting him into a position where Sinister is going to become the "Magneto" of the MCU's X-Men. There are stories with Sinister that actually carry thematic weight like Mutant Massacre and the Madelyne Pryor arc with Scott/Stryfe. So you either use him once in the first movie or you bring him back countless more times for the sequels to fulfill his most famous stories. It's not a good position for him to be in. That's why it may be best if they don't pull the Sinister trigger in the first movie. Going down a list of prominent X-Men villains not-named Magneto may not be the best way to approach the MCU.

Difference is Norman Osborn is not as linked to Spider-Man to the degree Magneto is the X-Men. Yes, he is Spider-Man's nemesis, but he was also comics dead for 20 years and Spider-Man's arch-enemy has changed many times over. Not to mention Marvel doesn't fully control Norman, I am sure Sony/Marvel may have had differences on using Norman in Sony movies and such (he was rumored to be in Silver & Black). With Magneto, Marvel would have no such restriction. I am not saying Magneto is the only villain we should ever use, but he contextualizes the core struggle of the X-Men as a series better than anyone else.

Magneto would contextualize that struggle in a way we've already seen 7 times now. There are only so many ways you can illustrate Erik's message about mankind's intolerance and hate in a way that is completely fresh. We don't need to see that struggle contextualized the same way as the Fox movies. They need to approach mutant intolerance and hate from different perspectives. We're not going to get a reapeat of the same tired climax of every Singer-Men movie where Erik gives another played out speech about mankind.

It doesn't matter how connected Magneto is to the X-Men. There DOZENS of X-Men stories where Magneto's name is not uttered once. Fox is getting to the point where they are shoehorning him into stories he wasn't even in in the comics (Dark Phoenix). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't even remember him appearing in the original Days Of Future Past story from the comics. Mystique-led Brotherhood was trying to assassinate Senator Kelly and this caused the dystopian future where Sentinels take over the world. Magneto is nowhere to be seen. The Astonishing X-Men run Is almost completely devoid of any Magneto shenanigans. For at least the first 10 chapters/arcs. Magneto wasn't present in the first 27 or so issues from Morrison's New X-Men run and his run is considered one of the best in evolving the themes of the X-Men franchise.

Of course Magneto is going to EVENTUALLY show up but he does not to be in the first, second or even third (if Feige is as tired of him as half the fandom) film in of this trilogy. Sometimes I'd even prefer it that way because the character has overstayed his welcome bigtime.

 

[Marvel united]

That's why I say use Count Nefaria as the villain. He has ties to the Avengers as he's fought them. He's also Madame Masque's father (well the proper Madame Masque, not the bastardised Whitney Frost version we got in Agent Carter). And he is the villain that the Giant Sized X-Men team fought when Thunderbird died.

Using Nefaria (if he's already been seeded in other Avengers films) will make him seem like he's not exclusively an X-Men villain. And that's what needs to be different about the MCU X-Men. It can't just be the Fox universe transplanted into the MCU as if under different ownership but still in a universe all on their own. If you're going to use the X-Men now, they need to crossover with the rest of the MCU, just like Spider-Man does.

Nefaria is enough of an X-Men villain, but not exclusively one like Sinister or Apocalypse. Let the X-Men world feel bigger and more connected.



I still want Beta Ray Bill as one of the Horsemen, even if having him in this story is like having a horse of a different colour.

Count Nefaria could be a fun villain for the first movie. He does offer more connections to the wider MU, he's a physical challenge for the X-Men and it allows Marvel to highlight the X-Men as superheroes for once and tell a lighter story that is a little bit fantastical and fun. Two keywords that make Singer shiver

 

[Dark Raven]

@Spider-Fan, what are the chances that Feige gives the Fantastic Four to the television division run by Jeph Loeb like he did with Inhumans so Scott Buck can take a crack at the FF but keeps Doctor Doom for the movies?

The only chance is if Feige hates the FF and wants to buck the trend of successful adaptations. Honestly though, what fan is going to want to have waited all these years for the FF to return only to be given to Scott Buck, Destroyer of Worlds?

 

[Spider-Fan]

But then, you're putting him into a position where Sinister is going to become the "Magneto" of the MCU's X-Men. There are stories with Sinister that actually carry thematic weight like Mutant Massacre and the Madelyne Pryor arc with Scott/Stryfe. So you either use him once in the first movie or you bring him back countless more times for the sequels to fulfill his most famous stories. It's not a good position for him to be in. That's why it may be best if they don't pull the Sinister trigger in the first movie. Going down a list of prominent X-Men villains not-named Magneto may not be the best way to approach the MCU.

The MCU can still adapt these ideas and use them in a first film. The movie versions of basically any story they have done have been vast departures. Any adaptation of the above would be as well, so it wouldn't have to be a sequel.

Magneto would contextualize that struggle in a way we've already seen 7 times now. There are only so many ways you can illustrate Erik's message about mankind's intolerance and hate in a way that is completely fresh. We don't need to see that struggle contextualized the same way as the Fox movies. They need to approach mutant intolerance and hate from different perspectives. We're not going to get a reapeat of the same tired climax of every Singer-Men movie where Erik gives another played out speech about mankind.

It doesn't matter how connected Magneto is to the X-Men. There DOZENS of X-Men stories where Magneto's name is not uttered once. Fox is getting to the point where they are shoehorning him into stories he wasn't even in in the comics (Dark Phoenix). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't even remember him appearing in the original Days Of Future Past story from the comics. Mystique-led Brotherhood was trying to assassinate Senator Kelly and this caused the dystopian future where Sentinels take over the world. Magneto is nowhere to be seen. The Astonishing X-Men run Is almost completely devoid of any Magneto shenanigans. For at least the first 10 chapters/arcs. Magneto wasn't present in the first 27 or so issues from Morrison's New X-Men run and his run is considered one of the best in evolving the themes of the X-Men franchise.

Of course Magneto is going to EVENTUALLY show up but he does not to be in the first, second or even third (if Feige is as tired of him as half the fandom) film in of this trilogy. Sometimes I'd even prefer it that way because the character has overstayed his welcome bigtime.

Because other comics exist without him really doesn't change anything. Magneto is still one of the hottest commodities coming over in this deal. He's going to get a major push. They're not going to wait like 8 years to use Magneto. Lots of other characters will be used in the MCU X-Men verse, I am sure. Especially since we're likely getting solo X-Men films and other X-teams on top of the standard X-Men. You can introduce Magneto in a first X-Men film and do it differently from how Fox. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Dark Raven]

Count Nefaria could be a fun villain for the first movie. He does offer more connections to the wider MU, he's a physical challenge for the X-Men and it allows Marvel to highlight the X-Men as superheroes for once and tell a lighter story that is a little bit fantastical and fun. Two keywords that make Singer shiver

Count Nefaria could be someone that Prof X sends his new Giant Sized team in as a first mission. Don't put them against someone overly formidable like Magneto or Sinister. Nefaria would be to break them in, even though he would present a tough challenge.

I also agree that it would allow it to be a bit more fantastical and fun and would give the film a different feel to all the other X-Men films. Nefaria wouldn't be all about mutant persecution etc, so he could feel like a Fox-Men palette cleanser before we get into the more serious issues about mutants.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Count Nefaria could be someone that Prof X sends his new Giant Sized team in as a first mission. Don't put them against someone overly formidable like Magneto or Sinister. Nefaria would be to break them in, even though he would present a tough challenge.

I also agree that it would allow it to be a bit more fantastical and fun and would give the film a different feel to all the other X-Men films. Nefaria wouldn't be all about mutant persecution etc, so he could feel like a Fox-Men palette cleanser before we get into the more serious issues about mutants.

Once again, I think there are better options than Nefaria. Even if you're trying to go with the fighting the Mid-Boss movie one and building toward Magneto or Sinister as the main boss in sequels model. It's not that I think Nefaria is a bad villain or anything, I just think that Marvel has many unused villains they will get from Fox who are just...better.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Another villain who I think would work in a 1st film would be Proteus. Especially if it is a movie about the world only now becoming aware of mutants, Xavier and other students could go to recruit him and only for it to go horribly wrong and they face tough decisions.