The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[BarryAllen]

Fantastic Four opening with the InHumans is a possibility. What is obvious is that Marvel realizes what their brand is. It's always going to be Iron Man, Spidey, Hulk, Avengers, and eventually the FF. These second tier characters can't really carry a phase alone. That's why FF is in prime position to open PIV. Plus Reed is a great substitute for Tony Stark.

I expect them to open summer 2020 with something FF related. Either 2020 or the following year. Fall 2019 might be a sequel or a carryover from PIII.

Iron Man, Thor and Captain America were pretty much second-tier characters to the general audience and they carried most of Phase 1 and 2 by themselves. Every character is new to the general audience, and if it's a good movie, they'll respond to it.

 

[Mike5575]

Fantastic Four opening with the InHumans is a possibility. What is obvious is that Marvel realizes what their brand is. It's always going to be Iron Man, Spidey, Hulk, Avengers, and eventually the FF. These second tier characters can't really carry a phase alone. That's why FF is in prime position to open PIV. Plus Reed is a great substitute for Tony Stark.

I expect them to open summer 2020 with something FF related. Either 2020 or the following year. Fall 2019 might be a sequel or a carryover from PIII.

I know I'm going to catch flack for this, but screw the Fantastic Four. It's amazing to me that after 8 years in the MCU, people still believe that popularity in the comics dictates what will be popular in the MCU. I get sick of people acting like Marvel needs the F4. Marvel doesn't need anything. They pick characters and stories that will fit in with the story they're trying to tell and go from their. Just watch Captain Marvel and The Inhumans make millions. Then they will be A-listers and F4 will be B-listers at best. I don't think it's fair to judge these new franchises considering that some movies don't even have an actor or even a director attached to them. How about you give these new franchises a chance to prove themselves before you judge them, m'kay?

 

[jaymes_e06]

Just... stop...

 

[Dasher10]

I think that, while the whole schedule is evolving, Inhumans probably will be replaced by something 'new'. Marvel seems to have a clear strategy of releasing a number of sequels while also keeping things fresh with things like Dr. Strange, Black Panther and Inhumans. I suspect that there will be something interesting replacing Inhumans, but it could be 1 of 100 potential new projects.

What if it's a Hulk 2, Iron Man 4, Ghost Rider or Black Widow replacing Inhumans? To put it mildly, Inhumans was never a fan favorite property. Even Guardians of the Galaxy had the Abnett/Lanning run that was VERY well-regarded (and before that, there was Jim Starlin's Infinity Watch which was the same team under a different name.)

Inhumans had a successful 12-issue miniseries. That was it. There was never a celebrated ongoing run and nobody has loved the characters for decades like they have with the Avengers and X-Men. Even Black Widow had multiple memorable OGNs, miniseries and an ongoing co-headlining series with Daredevil and Hawkeye had the Matt Fraction run.

Inhumans is only greenlit because it's something that Marvel as a company want us to love and hope to shove down our throats. When compared to all of their other films, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Even among the TV shows, Agent Carter is the only one that wasn't based on a beloved comic title and that was because it was a miniseries.

 

[BarryAllen]

I know I'm going to catch flack for this, but screw the Fantastic Four. It's amazing to me that after 8 years in the MCU, people still believe that popularity in the comics dictates what will be popular in the MCU. I get sick of people acting like Marvel needs the F4. Marvel doesn't need anything. They pick characters and stories that will fit in with the story they're trying to tell and go from their. Just watch Captain Marvel and The Inhumans make millions. Then they will be A-listers and F4 will be B-listers at best. I don't think it's fair to judge these new franchises considering that some movies don't even have an actor or even a director attached to them. How about you give these new franchises a chance to prove themselves before you judge them, m'kay?

While I don't agree on your opinion on the FF4, I def agree with your statement there. People need to stop acting like comic popularity dictates the MCU and how it takes shape. Marvel already proved with properties like Guardians of the Galaxy and Jessica Jones that being obscure doesn't matter as long as there's potential for great storytelling. And with Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Luke Cage and Iron Fist all charting new ground, I can't wait!

What if it's a Hulk 2, Iron Man 4, Ghost Rider or Black Widow replacing Inhumans? To put it mildly, Inhumans was never a fan favorite property. Even Guardians of the Galaxy had the Abnett/Lanning run that was VERY well-regarded (and before that, there was Jim Starlin's Infinity Watch which was the same team under a different name.)

Inhumans had a successful 12-issue miniseries. That was it. There was never a celebrated ongoing run and nobody has loved the characters for decades like they have with the Avengers and X-Men. Even Black Widow had multiple memorable OGNs, miniseries and an ongoing co-headlining series with Daredevil and Hawkeye had the Matt Fraction run.

Inhumans is only greenlit because it's something that Marvel as a company want us to love and hope to shove down our throats. When compared to all of their other films, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Even among the TV shows, Agent Carter is the only one that wasn't based on a beloved comic title and that was because it was a miniseries.

Nobody loved Black Panther for decades, and he's getting his own movie. Nobody loved Carol Danvers for decades, and she's getting her own movie (and she still doesn't have a defining comic run!). Jessica Jones had one acclaimed run, and is now being turned into a multi-season tv show.

The Inhumans have two successful runs, the intial run with Jack Kirby and the 12-issue miniseries. Clearly, Marvel sees potential in these characters. The only shoving down the throats is the Nuhumans, which people see as threatening to the X-men. The movie version will be about the Royal Family. People will be def be more open to that.

 

[Mike5575]

Just... stop...

Stop what?

While I don't agree on your opinion on the FF4, I def agree with your statement there. People need to stop acting like comic popularity dictates the MCU and how it takes shape. Marvel already proved with properties like Guardians of the Galaxy and Jessica Jones that being obscure doesn't matter as long as there's potential for great storytelling. And with Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Luke Cage and Iron Fist all charting new ground, I can't wait!



Nobody loved Black Panther for decades, and he's getting his own movie. Nobody loved Carol Danvers for decades, and she's getting her own movie (and she still doesn't have a defining comic run!). Jessica Jones had one acclaimed run, and is now being turned into a multi-season tv show.

The Inhumans have two successful runs, the intial run with Jack Kirby and the 12-issue miniseries. Clearly, Marvel sees potential in these characters. The only shoving down the throats is the Nuhumans, which people see as threatening to the X-men. The movie version will be about the Royal Family. People will be def be more open to that.

I don't have a problem with the F4. I don't hate or dislike them. I just don't like it when people assume that Marvel desperately needs the F4 because everything else sucks.

As far as defining comic runs, Brian Reed's Ms Marvel run was pretty good.

 

[Orba]

I don't have a problem with the F4. I don't hate or dislike them. I just don't like it when people assume that Marvel desperately needs the F4 because everything else sucks.

As far as defining comic runs, Brian Reed's Ms Marvel run was pretty good.

People don't want the F4 back because they think everything else sucks, people want the F4 back because they are a big chunk out of the middle of the Marvel Universe that Marvel don't have access to. They don't have the X-Men either, but they have often been off in their own corner so their exclusion has less impact but the F4 film rights bring a lot of characters with them that will help the MCU. Heck, it includes two characters big enough to be the antagonists for an entire Phase. The rights include the Silver Surfer and his characters, thats a lot of cosmic characters including Galactus, it would give Marvel full control of the Skrulls. Basically Marvel would have no limits to how they could expand the MCU Cosmically.

Then there are the F4 rights themselves who bring Doctor Doom, a guy who could serve as a villain for the characters of an entire Phase. In the comics they introduced the Inhumans, Namor, they served as a natural link between the Earth based and Cosmic characters. So its not that people think that the other characters are bad, its that having the F4 added opens up the possibilities of the MCU immensely.

 

[Mjölnir]

I know I'm going to catch flack for this, but screw the Fantastic Four. It's amazing to me that after 8 years in the MCU, people still believe that popularity in the comics dictates what will be popular in the MCU. I get sick of people acting like Marvel needs the F4. Marvel doesn't need anything. They pick characters and stories that will fit in with the story they're trying to tell and go from their. Just watch Captain Marvel and The Inhumans make millions. Then they will be A-listers and F4 will be B-listers at best. I don't think it's fair to judge these new franchises considering that some movies don't even have an actor or even a director attached to them. How about you give these new franchises a chance to prove themselves before you judge them, m'kay?

It's been a while since the FF were popular in comics.

That said the franchise could definitely be a hit in the MCU. Especially given the great villains that belong to it.

 

[Dark Raven]

When are we ever going to hear whether Marvel have the FF back? Is D23 this year? Or if not, then SDCC? When is that? In July?

And if not, then when else could they announce it, if at all?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I get sick of people acting like Marvel needs the F4. Marvel doesn't need anything.

It depends if you're talking about what they need to have profitable films or what they need to create an MCU that comes close to duplicating the Marvel Comic Universe.

If Reed Richards, Dr. Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Kang, Annihilus etc. aren't in the MCU, then the MCU won't come close to duplicating the Marvel Comic Universe.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

When are we ever going to hear whether Marvel have the FF back? Is D23 this year? Or if not, then SDCC? When is that? In July?

And if not, then when else could they announce it, if at all?

No D23 this year. SDCC is in mid-July.

 

[ernesth100]

If Marvel did get the F4 back. We arent hearing about it for a WHILE. That much is for sure. Especiially if the XMen are coming with them.


Seriiously hoping for some sort of huge universal merger between Foxverse and MCU poat IW.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If Marvel did get the F4 back. We arent hearing about it for a WHILE. That much is for sure. Especiially if the XMen are coming with them.


Seriiously hoping for some sort of huge universal merger between Foxverse and MCU poat IW.

I wouldn't be surprised to see (at some point and it could come in bits and pieces) a Sony-type team-up that would give Marvel use of FF characters who would be integrated into the MCU while also setting up future crossovers with X-Men, Deadpool etc. that would have the Fox characters on an alternate Earth.

 

[jaymes_e06]

^Do you really think that is possible? Foxverse is so much less family friendly (sometimes R-rated) and cerebral films. How would they make the X-Men work without shoehorning or stifling them in some way?

FF could easily fit their aesthetic I am not as sure about X-Men without completely retooling Marvel's brand or the X-Mens.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

^Do you really think that is possible? Foxverse is so much less family friendly (sometimes R-rated) and cerebral films. How would they make the X-Men work without shoehorning or stifling them in some way?

FF could easily fit their aesthetic I am not as sure about X-Men without completely retooling Marvel's brand or the X-Mens.

I don't see them as all that different and the only possible problem I see is Deadpool.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

. . . and since Tim Miller has expressed a strong interest in doing a Deadpool/Spider-man crossover, I think if Sony and Marvel gave him that opportunity, he'd play by their rules.

 

[Zarex]

^Do you really think that is possible? Foxverse is so much less family friendly (sometimes R-rated) and cerebral films. How would they make the X-Men work without shoehorning or stifling them in some way?

FF could easily fit their aesthetic I am not as sure about X-Men without completely retooling Marvel's brand or the X-Mens.

I doubt very much FOX will be merging the X-Men films with the MCU as I don't see the BO bump from a joint effort being worth splitting the take. But the tone wouldn't be a issue. Outside of Deadpool, which Kinberg and Miller have admitted will be a tough fit within X-Men proper, the two universes are not at all dissimilar.

Both the MCU and the X films are standard superhero fare created to gather a broad audience. The FOX franchise's focus on discrimination isn't particularly cerebral and the MCU comedy wouldn't go over the heads of X-Fans. The 2nd and 3rd Cap films look to be, imo, every bit as serious and grounded as their FOX counterparts.

 

[Lilbaz]

Don't see why all of the mcu films need to be family friendly. They've shown with their netflix series that they can do adult while still being popular. Blade, ghost rider etc... can all be made r rated this will give marvel the chance to expand and release films outside of the holidays.

Personally not too bothered about ff reverting. But i really want everyone who comes with them. I want to see galactus, doom etc...

 

[jaymes_e06]

. . . and since Tim Miller has expressed a strong interest in doing a Deadpool/Spider-man crossover, I think if Sony and Marvel gave him that opportunity, he'd play by their rules.

Idk if I like that though...

What made/makes Deadpool so good is he plays by no ones rules. He's his own entity and shouldn't be tackled with kid gloves. It's probably Marvel-Fox's best weapon and greatest weakness is their more "mature" storytelling. They aren't really films fun for the whole family!t:

But if they do bring them in do you see them integrating? I think the best way to go about it is make Marvel have select licensing to certain X-Characters like Wolverine, Proffesor, Jean, Storm and Cyclops that can appear in their films. I think they will have an interesting time explaining why human mutates are treated like celebrities/heroes while mutants are outcasts.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Don't see why all of the mcu films need to be family friendly. They've shown with their netflix series that they can do adult while still being popular. Blade, ghost rider etc... can all be made r rated this will give marvel the chance to expand and release films outside of the holidays.

Personally not too bothered about ff reverting. But i really want everyone who comes with them. I want to see galactus, doom etc...

Yeah, I think it has to be considered on a case by case basis. You wouldn't team Captain America with Punisher, for example.

And if Marvel decided to team Daredevil and Spider-Man (as another example), they'd probably tone down the violence. Daredevil could still be Daredevil, but for the purposes of the film, they just wouldn't include any scenes of anyone smashing anyone's skull against the pavement.

The characters themselves shift and change some from film to film and director to director just as they do in the comics with different writers and artists.

I think the best thing for Superhero films to continue to be popular would be to continue to mix things up with different styles and mixes of characters as they go.

If anything, X-Men is probably the one thing that is in danger of being strangled under the singular vision of Bryan Singer always making the same film. It wouldn't harm, but rather help the X-Men (in my opinion) if they mixed things up a little bit and allowed them to interact in some different ways with some different directors.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I doubt very much FOX will be merging the X-Men films with the MCU as I don't see the BO bump from a joint effort being worth splitting the take. But the tone wouldn't be a issue. Outside of Deadpool, which Kinberg and Miller have admitted will be a tough fit within X-Men proper, the two universes are not at all dissimilar.

Both the MCU and the X films are standard superhero fare created to gather a broad audience. The FOX franchise's focus on discrimination isn't particularly cerebral and the MCU comedy wouldn't go over the heads of X-Fans. The 2nd and 3rd Cap films look to be, imo, every bit as serious and grounded as their FOX counterparts.

I'll give you the Cap films (by far Marvel's crowning achievement ) they are fantastic but if they are doing a huge crossover they tend to amp up the camp. That's just the truth of the matter. All Avengers films have had that tone.

It could work for sure I just think they need to do some retooling not the characters as much.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But if they do bring them in do you see them integrating? I think the best way to go about it is make Marvel have select licensing to certain X-Characters like Wolverine, Proffesor, Jean, Storm and Cyclops that can appear in their films. I think they will have an interesting time explaining why human mutates are treated like celebrities/heroes while mutants are outcasts.

I imagine it as something like this:

Let's say Fox has an idea for a story in which the Hulk would be transported to the X-Men world for some mayhem and fun. Marvel would 'lend' Hulk to them but both studios would have a basic understanding of who Hulk is and his character should be consistent. Fox would show Marvel the script for sign-off and commentary and if there were any concerns with how the character was being portrayed, they would work that out prior to shooting.

Similarly if Wolverine was going to appear in an Iron-Man film, Marvel would show Fox the script prior to shooting and change anything that Fox felt needed to be changed before proceeding.

Some of the 'culture shock' would be an interesting part of the stories. Wolverine actually being accepted as a 'superhero' in the Marvel world rather than being a freak could provide an interesting story-line and conflict. Would he want to return to his world or stay there? If he is forced to go back to his world through some set of events, could that create some interesting conflict and stories for future films?

 

[Mike5575]

People don't want the F4 back because they think everything else sucks, people want the F4 back because they are a big chunk out of the middle of the Marvel Universe that Marvel don't have access to. They don't have the X-Men either, but they have often been off in their own corner so their exclusion has less impact but the F4 film rights bring a lot of characters with them that will help the MCU. Heck, it includes two characters big enough to be the antagonists for an entire Phase. The rights include the Silver Surfer and his characters, thats a lot of cosmic characters including Galactus, it would give Marvel full control of the Skrulls. Basically Marvel would have no limits to how they could expand the MCU Cosmically.

Then there are the F4 rights themselves who bring Doctor Doom, a guy who could serve as a villain for the characters of an entire Phase. In the comics they introduced the Inhumans, Namor, they served as a natural link between the Earth based and Cosmic characters. So its not that people think that the other characters are bad, its that having the F4 added opens up the possibilities of the MCU immensely.

With Civil War dropping in a little over a week, I doubt people think everything sucks. The thing that annoys me is that people are assuming that once the original actors retire from Marvel, they feel a cinematic universe lead by Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, and Black Panther aren't good enough to lead a new chapter of the MCU. If their movies are good, people will worship them as gods, just as they did with Cap, Iron Man, and Thor.

Captain Marvel can fill in that void as a link between Earth and the cosmic choice. As a human/alien hybrid flying in space, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I'll give you the Cap films (by far Marvel's crowning achievement ) they are fantastic but if they are doing a huge crossover they tend to amp up the camp. That's just the truth of the matter. All Avengers films have had that tone.

It could work for sure I just think they need to do some retooling not the characters as much.

It's funny how many different views on "camp" one sees on this board. To me camp is like the Schumacher Batman films, or even something like the new Lex Luthor. Exaggerated and overacted above the norm for the genre.

 

[Dark Raven]

I imagine it as something like this:

Let's say Fox has an idea for a story in which the Hulk would be transported to the X-Men world for some mayhem and fun. Marvel would 'lend' Hulk to them but both studios would have a basic understanding of who Hulk is and his character should be consistent. Fox would show Marvel the script for sign-off and commentary and if there were any concerns with how the character was being portrayed, they would work that out prior to shooting.

Similarly if Wolverine was going to appear in an Iron-Man film, Marvel would show Fox the script prior to shooting and change anything that Fox felt needed to be changed before proceeding.

Some of the 'culture shock' would be an interesting part of the stories. Wolverine actually being accepted as a 'superhero' in the Marvel world rather than being a freak could provide an interesting story-line and conflict. Would he want to return to his world or stay there? If he is forced to go back to his world through some set of events, could that create some interesting conflict and stories for future films?

How about Fox lending Trank's FF cast to Marvel where they end up in a universe where FFINO was actually successful and warmly received, and all the FFINO defenders had their day in the sun? Would they want to go back to their own world after that?