The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[First Avenger]

Fox shot themselves in the foot lifting the embargo so soon.

 

[Web-Head]

Your avatar is wonderful.

Thanks, man!

 

[Zarex]

It will definitely be interesting to see what (if anything) shakes out of all of this.

I had been thinking for a while that if Apocalypse comes in soft at the BO - and it appears as though that's where we are headed - then FOX would abandon the X-Kids back in the 1980s and move forward with a lower budget modern day series of films centered around Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutants and possibly Gambit. With time travel in play via Cable and every mutant in the FOX series apparently carrying a non-aging secondary mutation, promising members of the prequel series can be easily mixed in with the modern day crowd.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm asking this question blind because I didn't see it: Is there a possibility Deadpool is in the MCU (either by design or as something that could be retrofitted after-the-fact)?

I know there was talk about a helicarrier. Was there anything else (in terms of the general attitude toward mutants/superheroes) that would indicate it was in one universe or the other?

I'm wondering if we could already be on a path toward having the 'modern' X-Men (Deadpool, Gambit etc.) in the MCU.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I had been thinking for a while that if Apocalypse comes in soft at the BO - and it appears as though that's where we are headed - then FOX would abandon the X-Kids back in the 1980s and move forward with a lower budget modern day series of films centered around Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutants and possibly Gambit. With time travel in play via Cable and every mutant in the FOX series apparently carrying a non-aging secondary mutation, promising members of the prequel series can be easily mixed in with the modern day crowd.

If it were up to me (and this relates to my question above and I'm a little clueless where things stand from not seeing Deadpool), I'd start fresh in modern day with a 'soft-reboot'.

I'd make it clear we're ignoring everything that came before, but the X-Men are the X-Men. There's a school led by Professor X and number of mutants we already know (though I'd recast all of them) etc. But like what Marvel did with Hulk before and more recently Spider-Man in CW, I'd make it clear that, while we know the basics about the characters, they don't have to be tied to the convoluted history that was created with the previous movies.

And I think for any of these properties to move forward and continue indefinitely, there needs to be some flexibility.

At some point, Marvel will need to recast Tony Stark. They should be able to bring in a new actor and have him step in as the general idea of who Tony Stark and Iron Man is, but I wouldn't pin things down so specifically that, for example a film many years in the future will be so restricted that they can't do something because it would contradict a line of dialogue that happened 20 years previously.

That's sort of the way it's always worked in the comics. When John Byrne came on with FF, he sort of did his own thing. They shared the basic characteristics of the characters, but he was able to put his own spin on them without people worrying about the details. We shouldn't be saying, for example, in either the comics or movies: "Hey, Reed Richards was in WWII, so isn't he over 90 years old now?" Or, similarly, 20 years from now worry about how Tony was in his 20's in 1991 because of what we just saw in Civil War.

 

[Orba]

I'm asking this question blind because I didn't see it: Is there a possibility Deadpool is in the MCU (either by design or as something that could be retrofitted after-the-fact)?

I know there was talk about a helicarrier. Was there anything else (in terms of the general attitude toward mutants/superheroes) that would indicate it was in one universe or the other?

I'm wondering if we could already be on a path toward having the 'modern' X-Men (Deadpool, Gambit etc.) in the MCU.

Deadpool keeps itself pretty ambiguous, Mutants exist but it doesn't go into how they are viewed by the public (as far as I can remember). It even keeps itself pretty ambiguous about when the film is set, it appears to be a modern setting (there is nothing obvious in it that would age things) but for example he jokes about if Professor X will be be Stewart or McAvoy. He also makes a joke about the fact you only see two X-Men and wonders if it is because the budget couldn't afford more. To be honest I don't think there is anything in the film tying it tight to the existing X-Men, because it is very aware of itself I would say that it would be quite possible to reboot the whole X-Men franchise without altering Deadpool (aside from giving him something else to joke about).

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Deadpool keeps itself pretty ambiguous, Mutants exist but it doesn't go into how they are viewed by the public (as far as I can remember). It even keeps itself pretty ambiguous about when the film is set, it appears to be a modern setting (there is nothing obvious in it that would age things) but for example he jokes about if Professor X will be be Stewart or McAvoy. He also makes a joke about the fact you only see two X-Men and wonders if it is because the budget couldn't afford more. To be honest I don't think there is anything in the film tying it tight to the existing X-Men, because it is very aware of itself I would say that it would be quite possible to reboot the whole X-Men franchise without altering Deadpool (aside from giving him something else to joke about).

Interesting. That would at least give them flexibility if they wanted to start with Deadpool and build on that world - either as part of the MCU or as a new variation of the X-Men world.

I really think they need to shake things up. I know I'm getting tired of watching the same movie every few years and from the reviews, it seems like others are also starting to get tired of the Singer formula.

 

[Darth_Spock]

Fox shot themselves in the foot lifting the embargo so soon.

Interesting....
One could deduce that it's a "knee-jerk reaction" to all the flack they got when they lifted the Fan4stic embargo so late.

This is their flag ship so they didn't want to take any chances. And since Singer has never had a bad time with reviews in the past (With X-men anyway) they likely thought "what the heck!"

So what happens now? There's a lot to digest here.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox shot themselves in the foot lifting the embargo so soon.

Interesting....
One could deduce that it's a "knee-jerk reaction" to all the flack they got when they lifted the Fan4stic embargo so late.

This is their flag ship so they didn't want to take any chances. And since Singer has never had a bad time with reviews in the past (With X-men anyway) they likely thought "what the heck!"

So what happens now? There's a lot to digest here.

I wondered if it was a reaction to the FF, but I also think, from the reviews I've read, it's not so much a 'bad' film as it is familiar and 'been there, done that'.

That's frankly why I didn't like DOFP as much as previous efforts, but most people seemed to really enjoy that one. Fox may have assumed that since the formula has been well-received in the past, it would be well-received now. They might have realized they were getting close to the saturation point but assumed they could do another one or two before people got tired of it.

But I think that works in favor of a Fox/Marvel partnership. I think most of us would also agree that Spider-man was feeling a little 'stale', but when they brought him out in Civil War, he felt fresh and renewed.

 

[Dark Raven]

I wish FFINO had earlier embargos. Not that it would've helped it at all. But that's not why I wanted the embargo lifted earlier. Maybe it would've gone even further below 9% Rotten Tomatoes.

 

[Web-Head]

It is still to be seen whether Apocalypse getting somewhat poor reviews will be a positive or negative with the FF. They really should have waited and released it next month BC I could see it underperforming at the box office

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It is still to be seen whether Apocalypse getting somewhat poor reviews will be a positive or negative with the FF. They really should have waited and released it next month BC I could see it underperforming at the box office

If I were Fox and I considered this list of films in order of RT score with Marvel in blue and Fox in red:

Fantastic Four 2015 9%
Elektra 10%
Fantastic Four 2005 27%
Fantastic Four ROTSS 37%
Wolverine (2009) 38%
Daredevil 44%
X-Men AOA 49%
X-Men Last Stand 58%
Thor Dark World 66%
Incredible Hulk 67%
The Wolverine 70%
Iron Man 2 72%
Avengers AOU 75%
Thor 77%
Iron Man 3 79%
Captain America (FA) 80%
Ant Man 80%
X-Men 81%
Deadpool 83%
X2 86%
X-Men FC 87%
Captain America WS 89%
Civil War 90%
X-Men DOFP 91%
GOTG 91%
Avengers 92%
Iron Man 94%

I'd have to honestly say: "You know what? Marvel knows how to make these films better than we do. If they're willing to help, we should talk to them."

Think about this. Marvel hasn't made one film under 60% RT. The majority of Fox films (57% of the Marvel films they've made) are below 60%.

Marvel's average is 81%. Fox's average is 55%.

That's a piss-poor track record. And with the latest reviews for AOA, Fox's average RT score for the last three Marvel films they've made is 47%. The average for Marvel for their last three is 82%.

It just seems like Fox would be fools to not accept any Sony-type help offered to them from Marvel.

 

[First Avenger]

I wondered if it was a reaction to the FF, but I also think, from the reviews I've read, it's not so much a 'bad' film as it is familiar and 'been there, done that'.

That's frankly why I didn't like DOFP as much as previous efforts, but most people seemed to really enjoy that one. Fox may have assumed that since the formula has been well-received in the past, it would be well-received now. They might have realized they were getting close to the saturation point but assumed they could do another one or two before people got tired of it.

But I think that works in favor of a Fox/Marvel partnership. I think most of us would also agree that Spider-man was feeling a little 'stale', but when they brought him out in Civil War, he felt fresh and renewed.

Have you seen Civil War?

 

[Orba]

If AoA disappoints at the Box Office it will have to make Fox think about the approach they are taking with the main X-Men franchise, especially when its just months after Deadpool gave them their most profitable CBM ever (infact probably the most profitable CBM anyone has made). If nothing else it might make them think about how much they are spending on these films.

 

[Dark Raven]

FFINO got 9.0% RT so that was one of Fox's crowning achievements.

 

[Endeavor]

Bump:

https://fncd.net/v?id=rTHR-PD

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Have you seen Civil War?

Yep, and I loved what they did with Spider-man in it. I can't wait to see the next Spider-man film now. But after ASM2, I might have just skipped ASM3.

 

[Darth_Spock]

If I were Fox and I considered this list of films in order of RT score with Marvel in blue and Fox in red:

Fantastic Four 2015 9%
Elektra 10%
Fantastic Four 2005 27%
Fantastic Four ROTSS 37%
Wolverine (2009) 38%
Daredevil 44%
X-Men AOA 49%
X-Men Last Stand 58%
Thor Dark World 66%
Incredible Hulk 67%
The Wolverine 70%
Iron Man 2 72%
Avengers AOU 75%
Thor 77%
Iron Man 3 79%
Captain America (FA) 80%
Ant Man 80%
X-Men 81%
Deadpool 83%
X2 86%
X-Men FC 87%
Captain America WS 89%
Civil War 90%
X-Men DOFP 91%
GOTG 91%
Avengers 92%
Iron Man 94%

I'd have to honestly say: "You know what? Marvel knows how to make these films better than we do. If they're willing to help, we should talk to them."

Think about this. Marvel hasn't made one film under 60% RT. The majority of Fox films (57% of the Marvel films they've made) are below 60%.

Marvel's average is 81%. Fox's average is 55%.

That's a piss-poor track record. And with the latest reviews for AOA, Fox's average RT score for the last three Marvel films they've made is 47%. The average for Marvel for their last three is 82%.

It just seems like Fox would be fools to not accept any Sony-type help offered to them from Marvel.

Fascinating RT breakdown!

 

[ADollarADay]

There's no way Marvel would get the rights back based on Apocalypse not being a fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. They'd need to prove that Fox didn't put a serious effort into the film to even hope to win a legal battle, and you don't get there from some critics thinking the material is tired.

You didn't get the whole context. Marvel could probably sue though, based on other known information. And they most likely have/will send a letter to Fox.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And they most likely have/will send a letter to Fox.

Yeah, based on your earlier comment that Sony got a letter after ASM2, AOA is certainly following a similar pattern. ASM2 was the first under 60% Spider-Man, and AOA will be the first under 60% X-Men since Disney bought Marvel.

And as I noted in my previous post, Marvel has never made a sub 60% film, so they would have justification in calling out any licensed properties that do fall below that mark.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Bump:

https://fncd.net/v?id=rTHR-PD

Getting close to the two-month point now.t:

 

[Endeavor]

Getting close to the two-month point now.t:

Almost there

 

[Web-Head]

Someone posted on Reddit, but how awesome would the Fantastic Four have been during the airport scene in Civil War?

 

[Knight_SV]

I wonder if dc ******** trolls now will convince FoX-Men purist to be on board with them to attack Marvel/Disney all over online community.

 

[Dasher10]

If they do make an R-rated FF movie, then it will be as the FFINO defenders kept trying to assure us that if we had patience we would eventually be rewarded: just wait for the trailers; just wait for the reviews; just wait for the sequel; just wait for the BR/DVD; just wait for the reboot; just wait for the R-rated version; just wait for the X-rated version.

People are actually asking for Marvel to reboot the FF as an R-rated film?

Seriously?

There are numerous ways to make a good FF movie (none of which Fox could figure out) but the FF should never be rated R. I do not want their MCU reboot to be, "edgy." "Edgy" would be just as bad as Fox's "gritty" take last year.

The only R-rated MCU series ever should be Ghost Rider. No other IP that Marvel have that requires a film budget justifies an R-rating. Moon Knight and Blade can be Rebooted on TV. The other properties that need to be rated R are over at Fox.

I do not want to have waited so long for either a rights reversion or a sharing deal to get an R-rated Fantastic Four film.