The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[DarknessOfDeath]

Well it doesn't surprise me in the least that the new X-Men isn't getting much positive reviews. I didn't see DOFP so I think I'll skip this one too seeing how I am fed up with Fox. I wish they can do a deal like Sony did with Spider-Man...but I don't see the rights reverting back to Marvel any time soon. Fox should just give up...let it go but they'll be too stubborn to.

I want to see Jean Grey/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix done properly just like the rest of the X-Men without Wolverine hugging most of the screen time and stealing the most crucial scenes from the likes of Cyclops, Storm and the rest of em.

 

[metaphysician]

I'm asking this question blind because I didn't see it: Is there a possibility Deadpool is in the MCU (either by design or as something that could be retrofitted after-the-fact)?

I know there was talk about a helicarrier. Was there anything else (in terms of the general attitude toward mutants/superheroes) that would indicate it was in one universe or the other?

I'm wondering if we could already be on a path toward having the 'modern' X-Men (Deadpool, Gambit etc.) in the MCU.

The quick answer: no, because the MCU does not have either mutants or X-Men in it. It especially does not have them as long-established mainstays of the world like Deadpool portrayed them as. If you tried to bring the X-Men into the MCU, it'd require a completely new and different take on the X-Men, starting with mutants being ( by and large ) a *new* phenomena.

 

[metaphysician]

Fascinating RT breakdown!

Indeed. Its interesting to note that the worst Marvel movie ever still beats out over half of Fox's super hero output.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I wonder if dc ******** trolls now will convince FoX-Men purist to be on board with them to attack Marvel/Disney all over online community.

what a sad statement

 

[Eddie]

The quick answer: no, because the MCU does not have either mutants or X-Men in it. It especially does not have them as long-established mainstays of the world like Deadpool portrayed them as. If you tried to bring the X-Men into the MCU, it'd require a completely new and different take on the X-Men, starting with mutants being ( by and large ) a *new* phenomena.

Eh, it would take about a minute to hand wave Mutants into the MCU. They wouldn't have to be a new phenomenon at all. AoS established that there was an entire index full of superhumans that weren't public knowledge way back in the first season, and one of them was practically a Mutant (Scorch was genetically different, and S.H.I.E.L.D. wasn't quite sure why). The MCU is also moving almost exclusively to revealing new characters as already established. There was an Ant-Man (and Wasp) decades ago that simply weren't mentioned before they were needed, Peter Quill was already "Star-Lord" when we meet him in GotG, magic users have been around for ages (we just didn't need to know about them until Strange), Luke Cage already had his origin before his appearance in Jessica Jones, CIVIL WAR MILD SPOILERS [BLACKOUT]Spider-Man has been active for half a year, T'Challa is already the Black Panther, [/BLACKOUT] etc.

 

[Dasher10]

The quick answer: no, because the MCU does not have either mutants or X-Men in it. It especially does not have them as long-established mainstays of the world like Deadpool portrayed them as. If you tried to bring the X-Men into the MCU, it'd require a completely new and different take on the X-Men, starting with mutants being ( by and large ) a *new* phenomena.

That's why I keep saying to merge universes with an event film and create a new one that is best described as, "The MCU with a bunch of de-aged and dead characters in it + the X-Men."

Don't reboot the MCU since it isn't broken. Just recast as needed. Don't reboot the X-Men since they literally just rebooted. Merge universes and get both casts to work together. Only the FF need another reboot and they can easily fit into the MCU.

 

[Orba]

Eh, it would take about a minute to hand wave Mutants into the MCU. They wouldn't have to be a new phenomenon at all. AoS established that there was an entire index full of superhumans that weren't public knowledge way back in the first season, and one of them was practically a Mutant (Scorch was genetically different, and S.H.I.E.L.D. wasn't quite sure why). The MCU is also moving almost exclusively to revealing new characters as already established. There was an Ant-Man (and Wasp) decades ago that simply weren't mentioned before they were needed, Peter Quill was already "Star-Lord" when we meet him in GotG, magic users have been around for ages (we just didn't need to know about them until Strange), Luke Cage already had his origin before his appearance in Jessica Jones, CIVIL WAR MILD SPOILERS [BLACKOUT]Spider-Man has been active for half a year, T'Challa is already the Black Panther, [/BLACKOUT] etc.

Always thought it would be possible to add Mutants by revealing that Fury has been helping Xavier keep things quiet. Its already been established that Fury did not have a problem keeping secrets, even from SHIELD. Their appearance in the MCU would then be about the public finding out about them.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Maybe I should just stay out of the discussion since I didn't see Deadpool, but I'm curious, so I'll try to reword my original question.

In my mind, the thing Fox should build on is Deadpool. I don't see any point in keeping an 80 year old Hugh Jackman as a character that doesn't age or continuing to use X-Men characters who have gone back and forth in time to the point their whole story is a confusing mess.

So I'm thinking scrap it and start fresh with Deadpool - either in the MCU or in a unique world.

With that perspective in mind, if I were rebooting it, I'd start as the comics started and (to some extent) how the first X-Men film started: The X-Men would be sort of a strange, shadowy group. They would be the object of rumors and urban legends, but nobody would know exactly who or what they were.

Mutants in the MCU (as I remember it as a child) were rare and mostly unknown. They weren't the oppressed group and political cause they've become in the Foxverse.

I don't believe I've seen anything in the MCU that would prevent the X-Men from quietly existing as a relatively unknown group whose story is yet to be told.

So I guess my question is: Is there anything in the Deadpool film that would prevent that story from being told, and would it work?

 

[Orba]

Offhand nothing springs to mind, but it doesn't come out on BluRay in the UK for another month (it will be the first time I have bought a FoXverse film on release date since X2) so I can't remember all the details. But as far as I can remember the only ones I remember mentioning Mutants in the film were the "shadowy group" that give Wade his abilities.

 

[Bayne]

While I don't recall exactly how many times anyone used the word 'mutant', the basic assumption underlying the movie is that it's in the same universe as the X-men movies and that mutants are widely known. The whole organization Ajax is part of is clearly based on playing on people's desire to have mutant powers (which wouldn't exist if no one knew about mutants). Also, the X-men walk around in broad daylight in brightly colored uniforms and I think were implied to have a fairly long and public history.

Not to mention the fact that people repeatedly use mutant powers in public without anyone really seeming surprised. I suppose that part could be altered to fit into the MCU, if they didn't go too fast. Up to this point, though, the MCU hasn't had enough public superpowers for people to be that acclimated to it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Up to this point, though, the MCU hasn't had enough public superpowers for people to be that acclimated to it.

An interesting thing I noticed when watching civil war was how few people with real "superpowers" there were in the MCU. Once they started taking people's suits, arrows etc. away, they were pretty much powerless.

You've got:

Hulk
Thor
Wanda
Spider-Man

And then Captain America has "Enhanced capabilities" and Vision is an android (so not really super-powered).

If you think about that, it really shows how the FF would change the MCU. If they suddenly had four new truly super-powered individuals, it would change the equation and feel of the world quite a bit.

And from that point of view, throwing the X-Men in there would almost be too much from a short-term perspective.

 

[Mjölnir]

An interesting thing I noticed when watching civil war was how few people with real "superpowers" there were in the MCU. Once they started taking people's suits, arrows etc. away, they were pretty much powerless.

You've got:

Hulk
Thor
Wanda
Spider-Man

And then Captain America has "Enhanced capabilities" and Vision is an android (so not really super-powered).

If you think about that, it really shows how the FF would change the MCU. If they suddenly had four new truly super-powered individuals, it would change the equation and feel of the world quite a bit.

And from that point of view, throwing the X-Men in there would almost be too much from a short-term perspective.

Why isn't the Vision superpowered? Sure, he's not human but neither is Thor so that can't matter since he is on the list.

Superpowers are just extraordinary abilities and I'd say that MCU Cap is certainly in the superpower league, although at the bottom of it. That of course applies to Bucky as well.

And while there's not much active crossover the MCU also includes Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Daredevil, plus all the Inhumans in AoS. At least for now.

Still I agree that the FF certainly brings a lot of superpowers in if they were to drop in the MCU, which I think is the case even if we include all the technology based heroes.

As for the X-Men, I think that they become a bit too much would be the only reason why it could work in the MCU since with the mutants you want the persecution from the humans. Normally it makes less sense that some people just hunt mutants and don't do that much about the radioactive freaks, gods, etc that run around in bunches as well. That said I still think the X-Men struggle works best on it's own so I'm fine with them being where they are.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Why isn't the Vision superpowered? Sure, he's not human but neither is Thor so that can't matter since he is on the list.

I guess my thinking is, as an android, he's a construct - like Iron Man's suit.

Sure he can do some amazing things, but so can the punch-press 20 feet down the hall from me. The punch-press could crush your skull like an egg-shell, but it's not a super-hero. Vision is obviously unique in that we can debate his 'humanity', but he's certainly not the prototypical human (or human-like alien on earth to include people like Superman and Thor) with amazing abilities.

And you're right about the Netflix heroes - since I was focused on the movie universe and Avengers, they didn't really pop into my head. But they're also very low-profile at the moment - they don't really define the world in the same way the Avengers do.

I really just hadn't really thought about it until

Spoiler

we saw them all taken prisoner and their weapons taken away and I realized how dependent the current roster is on suits, technology etc. as opposed to actual powers.

Part of the thing that made Spider-man stand out so much in Civil War was that he really did have some super-powers, and that made him unique. In the comic universe, we see Spider-man as someone with relatively simple abilities, but in the MCU, he's much more of a stand-out.

 

[FVD]

I'm happy with the X-Men existing on their own for the meantime, but out of all those characters I'd still like to see Xavier, Magneto and Wolverine (and Juggernaut too actually) step out of the boundary and actually exist in the MCU which is why I'd like to see a reboot of the franchise after Apocalypse. Damn if only First Class began with the Original X-Men - Scott, Jean, Warren, Hank and Bobby. If the X-Men were ever to be rebooted in the MCU, I do think they oughta start small and expand from there. Heck, maybe First Class should have been set in the 90's or something. As for Wolverine, I'm open to him being an ensemble character for the meantime. And I would go for a recast as well - start fresh.

Actually now that I think about it, the Original X-Men would serve as a TV Series I'd rather watch over what's being planned atm.

 

[First Avenger]

An interesting thing I noticed when watching civil war was how few people with real "superpowers" there were in the MCU. Once they started taking people's suits, arrows etc. away, they were pretty much powerless.

You've got:

Hulk
Thor
Wanda
Spider-Man

And then Captain America has "Enhanced capabilities" and Vision is an android (so not really super-powered).

If you think about that, it really shows how the FF would change the MCU. If they suddenly had four new truly super-powered individuals, it would change the equation and feel of the world quite a bit.

And from that point of view, throwing the X-Men in there would almost be too much from a short-term perspective.

Black Panther and Bucky are enhanced too. But yeah there aren't that many super-powered heroes so far so the Fantastic Four could really bring something New and exciting to the MCU movies.

 

[Mjölnir]

I guess my thinking is, as an android, he's a construct - like Iron Man's suit.

Sure he can do some amazing things, but so can the punch-press 20 feet down the hall from me. The punch-press could crush your skull like an egg-shell, but it's not a super-hero. Vision is obviously unique in that we can debate his 'humanity', but he's certainly not the prototypical human (or human-like alien on earth to include people like Superman and Thor) with amazing abilities.

And you're right about the Netflix heroes - since I was focused on the movie universe and Avengers, they didn't really pop into my head. But they're also very low-profile at the moment - they don't really define the world in the same way the Avengers do.

I really just hadn't really thought about it until

Spoiler

we saw them all taken prisoner and their weapons taken away and I realized how dependent the current roster is on suits, technology etc. as opposed to actual powers.

Part of the thing that made Spider-man stand out so much in Civil War was that he really did have some super-powers, and that made him unique. In the comic universe, we see Spider-man as someone with relatively simple abilities, but in the MCU, he's much more of a stand-out.

Vision is unique but I'd definitely say that he's a living being and not just a machine. Starks creations aside from Ultron and Vision do not have consciousnesses.

True, very few know about the Netflix guys. Daredevil is probably fairly known locally but almost no one know about the rest.

 

[Eddie]

Always thought it would be possible to add Mutants by revealing that Fury has been helping Xavier keep things quiet. Its already been established that Fury did not have a problem keeping secrets, even from SHIELD. Their appearance in the MCU would then be about the public finding out about them.

This is also a good point. Fury kept Hawkeye's family, multiple bases, and more off the books. Technically Hydra was keeping secrets off the books as well, going by AoS (including, mild season 3 spoiler, a freaking portal to another world.

I honestly don't think Mutants would have to even be much of a secret, though. The public doesn't tend to know these characters' origin stories in universe, and there are a surprising amount of superhumans running around (especially with the ABC and Netflix stuff). People point to the comics and argue that Mutants can't work in the MCU because the public loves superheroes and traditionally the Mutants are feared, but those people are thinking in older comic terms, not the actual MCU continuity.

Spoiler

A huge chunk of the world being terrified of and hating superhumans is a main plot point in Civil War, obviously, but this is not even close to being a new development.They've been banging that drum since their second movie. The public feared the Hulk in TIH, the government was trying to gain control of the Iron Man suit in IM2, the montage of news footage in The Avengers shows people that fear the heroes, there was a big moment in Jessica Jones with a superhuman hating bigot, etc.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

If Marvel really want their rights to the X-Men back, I say they should really fight it before Fox butchers them even more. There's their Civil War right there...

If rumor is true about the Fantastic 4 coming home to Marvel....then they should kill two birds with one stone. I will celebrate when it happens. Fox should just stick to making regular movies...Superhero ones aren't their thing...aside from Deadpool...even Deadpool isn't enough to save the Fox verse

 

[Spiderine]

I don't care at all for any ideas involving merging universes or adapting previous efforts from other studios into the MCU. The MCU is doing fine with their own stuff. It has worked brilliantly to start with a blank slate. No need to muck things up with the current Xverse. I don't care if its an alternate dimension. Marvel doesn't need that anymore than they needed the Amazing Spiderman's continuity.

Im cool with the inclusion of mutants one day if it comes to that but none of this current stuff from FOX. No thanks. The most important thing and the only thing Marvel needs right now is FF and all its supporting characters. They have enough things on its plate without mutants anyways.

 

[wobbly]

Are we talking bringing the Fox X-Men into the MCU, or rebooting them from new into the MCU?

The former would not be viable as mutants have been a very public issue since the 70's thanks to DOFP. One thing CW made clear (thanks to Visions equation) is Iron-Man was the first publicly known superhero since Captain America (Ant-Man & Wasp were covert, and while Banner became the Hulk before Tony became IM, he wasn't known about until after).

The latter would be do-able though. I would think they'd have to kind of kick it off in the same vein as X1, where it seemed like Mutants had only recently become public knowledge.

That being said, Marvel can still push ahead with the Inhumans to fill the 'born that way' powered up heroes/villains route (though I suspect AOS may have muddied the waters for that one).

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Are we talking bringing the Fox X-Men into the MCU, or rebooting them from new into the MCU?

I think different people are talking about different things. I personally wouldn't, under any circumstances, keep the mess Singer created.

If I had complete control (and assuming Fox will still be heavily involved), I'd start fresh in modern times. I'd tone down all the "mutant vs. human" crap and make the whole feel a little less dreary and pretentious. I'd keep it as a separate world (but allow for crossovers through some sort of portal/wormhole etc., and I'd have Thanos, Galactus and other cosmic characters able to threaten both worlds.

I'd make the human/mutant conflict more of a government thing than a broader public thing. I'd have REAL sentinels coming after them, and I'd make mutants much rarer, more unique and less public than they've been in previous films . . . and for the love of God, no more Cerebro.

. . . but that's all just me.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I disagree with all of that no offense my friend. I think if they don't want them in the same reality what's the point? Go big or go home I say. What you're proposing just feels like a copout. I want to feel like The X-Men are completely a part of the MCU if they are going to just separate the universe again and reboot it at the same time it seems unnecessary. Reboot the universe to include mutants or retcon them in otherwise don't bother. Same for FF.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I disagree with all of that no offense my friend. I think if they don't want them in the same reality what's the point? Go big or go home I say. What you're proposing just feels like a copout. I want to feel like The X-Men are completely a part of the MCU if they are going to just separate the universe again and reboot it at the same time it seems unnecessary. Reboot the universe to include mutants or retcon them in otherwise don't bother. Same for FF.

Part of my reasoning is Sentinels. I want big, bad-ass Sentinels. Can that work in the MCU? What would Captain America and his coleagues do if Sentinels were hunting down mutants? Would they just just stand idly by?

 

[Endeavor]

I have to agree with jaymes on this.
If the X-Men are ever integrated I want them full on part of the MCU, not as some other dimensional visitors that pop in once in a while.

 

[Dasher10]

An interesting thing I noticed when watching civil war was how few people with real "superpowers" there were in the MCU. Once they started taking people's suits, arrows etc. away, they were pretty much powerless.

You've got:

Hulk
Thor
Wanda
Spider-Man

And then Captain America has "Enhanced capabilities" and Vision is an android (so not really super-powered).

If you think about that, it really shows how the FF would change the MCU. If they suddenly had four new truly super-powered individuals, it would change the equation and feel of the world quite a bit.

And from that point of view, throwing the X-Men in there would almost be too much from a short-term perspective.

You forgot the Defenders characters who all have powers. Daredevil has his radar sense. Jessica Jones has super strength and flight. Luke Cage has superhuman durability and unbreakable skin. Iron Fist has healing powers.